User talk:CWenger/Archives/2023/November

Quote in Battle Cry of Freedom (book) ?
Dear CWenger,

Thanks for your interest in this history book. I just saw you had removed a quote with this edit. Your motivation was : ''a great moment and quote to be sure but what is the significance here? pretty sure it had been described previously by other sources''. I feel the significance of the quote is as follows: You and i agreed that this was a "great moment" as you wrote. Furthermore you mentioned "other sources": i would welcome you finding another source of the same scene. Anyway, for this widely used book the scene is crucial and it can be very well shown here as a sample of style and method. Thank you for considering this question, Hansmuller (talk) 17:30, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Sample of style. When we describe a book or an author, we should give a quote. Like showing a painting on the article Pablo Picasso. Show, don't tell. It is informative for the reader to have an actual real sample from the book.
 * 2) Sample of argument and method. The upshot of the historical argument and objective method of the book is made clear by a characteristic quote. At a key moment the sworn enemies realise the relative importance of three - not two! - different groups of Americans, who have to live together: white Northerners and Southerners, and also the "Real Americans", the Indians. A change of perspective, although the black people are forgotten in this scene (!). However, the generous Indian concludes: We Are All Americans.
 * 3) Enhanced quality of information. In contrast to say, the Encyclopedia Brittannica on paper - an inspiration to Jimmy Wales when he envisaged Wikipedia at the start - we have enough space to spare to offer the reader the best brief information on a topic. Obviously, a real sample of a work - again, like a photo of a painting to discuss an artist - is a boon.
 * What do you think now, is the quote worthwhile?


 * I won't revert if you put the quote back in, but I still don't think it's particularly relevant. If the story was discovered or popularized by McPherson then I'd agree, but I don't see any evidence that that's the case. According to Ely Parker's wiki page, it was in a 1919 book about him, and probably earlier. Other parts were taken from Grant's memoirs, which are quite well known in their own right. I wouldn't say a quote is necessary at all; we aren't trying to advertise the book, just inform. –CWenger ( ^ •  @ ) 18:16, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear CWenger, thanks for your reply and extra sources.
 * The fact that others recall this incident as well, means that we have more sources which strengthens the case for mentioning it here.
 * But the real motivation for the quote was simply to show style and argument of this history book. A quote on an article is to a book what a painting on an article is to an artist. Or a music sound file on the Wikipedia article on Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart - his real name it seems :-)).
 * So i feel that preferably every article on a book should offer the reader a quote as a sample.
 * On Wikipedia we have the unique opportunity to provide good educational and instructional material, really showing not only telling.
 * Thank you for this discussion, Hansmuller (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

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