User talk:Chevelue

Welcome, Chevelue!


Welcome to Wikipedia, Chevelue! I'm I dream of horses, and I've been assigned as your mentor. Around 10% of new Wikipedia accounts receive a mentor randomly taken from a list of volunteers. It just means I'm here to help with anything you need! We need to have all kinds of people working together to create an online encyclopedia, so I'm glad you're here. Over time, you will figure out what you enjoy doing the most on Wikipedia.

You might have noticed that you have access to a tutorial and suggested edits. It's recommended that you take advantage of this, as it'll make learning how to edit Wikipedia easier.

If you need assistance with anything or have any questions, click on the "Get editing help" button on the bottom right corner of your screen. This will open up a module with links to help pages and a place to ask me questions. You can also ask me questions directly on my talk page, or go here to get help from the wider community.

Again, welcome to Wikipedia! I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 18:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your warm welcome. This is all very new to me so I have to get used to it . I am reading the material available and learning some new vocabulary. And I love your name! I look forward to working with you. 2A01:CB08:5A:7A00:498:50EE:B320:BE4C (talk) 18:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Remember to log in. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 22:03, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello I dream of horses, I need some help for the following:
 * I have a completed draft for a Wikipedia article and I want to know who I send it to. What is the correct procedure for doing this? Many thankS in advance Chevelue (talk) 13:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You put {{subst:submit}} at the top; there's no one person who you submit it to. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 23:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again
 * I’m afraid I am lost after reading so many pages about submitting. I now need clear info on the following please:
 * 1. How do I use a template for the article I with to submit? Where is this template found exactly? I cannot see an empty template…
 * 2. When I have completed the template where exactly do I submit it? Which www link? I have many pages of information ABOUT the process but no simple guide to the PRECISE steps to take when I have an article ready.
 * 3. What other steps do I need to take when I have finally submitted my text?
 * Sorry to be so basic, but this whole process is as I say very complicated for me.
 * Thanks a million for any easy guidance Chevelue (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You put {{subst:submit}} at the top of the draft, and that's all you need to do. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 16:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You put {{subst:submit}} at the top of the draft, and that's all you need to do. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 16:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello again
 * I’m afraid I am lost after reading so many pages about submitting. I now need clear info on the following please:
 * 1. How do I use a template for the article I with to submit? Where is this template found exactly? I cannot see an empty template…
 * 2. When I have completed the template where exactly do I submit it? Which www link? I have many pages of information ABOUT the process but no simple guide to the PRECISE steps to take when I have an article ready.
 * 3. What other steps do I need to take when I have finally submitted my text?
 * Sorry to be so basic, but this whole process is as I say very complicated for me.
 * Thanks a million for any easy guidance
 * Nancy Clifton, Australian artist
 * Nancy Clifton ( 1907 - 1989) was an Australian artist who was known for her printmaking, painting and mixed media works on paper. Her works were praised for their “technical know-how combined with intensity of feeling” (1) (Alan Warren, The Sun (Melbourne) Sept, 1968).
 * Nancy Clifton
 * Born 27 July, 1907
 * Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
 * Died: 21 January, 1989
 * Nationality: Australian
 * Education: Leyshon White Commercial Art School, National Gallery of Victoria Art School, RMIT.
 * Occupation: printmaker, painter, teacher
 * Years active: 1950 - 1989
 * Era: Pre and post WW2
 * Notable work: prints, watercolours, collages,
 * Spouse: Allan Clifton  m. 1936
 * Mother of three children
 * Contents
 * Life, training and influences
 * Style and Works
 * Accomplishments
 * Awards
 * Selected solo exhibitions
 * Selected group exhibitions
 * Represented
 * Bibliography
 * References
 * Life, training and influences
 * Nancy Clifton was born Nancy Dobson in Brunswick, Melbourne on 27 July, 1907. As an only child she spent much of her childhood reading and drawing, and her father, although he did not believe in education for women, encouraged her to go to art school. She attended the Leyshon White Commercial Art School (2) for three years and trained in fashion drawing, lettering, copying ads and signage. Her fellow pupils included Rex Battarbee, James Flett, Nutter Buzacott and Beryl Hartland who was to become Britain’s top fashion artist.
 * In 1927 at the age of 20 she started working on the women’s page of the short-lived Morning Post illustrating women’s and children’s fashions, but the Depression caused the paper to close down. One of her colleagues there was a young cartoonist Alex Gurney. She then took every job possible to make a living, drawing blue-prints for architects, copying display units in stores for catalogues, doing fashion drawings, and designing theatre sets and costumes for amateur theatricals. At the same time she took night classes at the National Gallery art school where she studied under W.B McInnes and Lindsay Bernard Hall drawing from life and from plaster casts, but she found it very academic.
 * In 1936 at the age of 28 she married Allan Clifton (3) and had three children, a son and two daughters, in the following four years. Then, in 1942 when the war broke out and her husband went into the army (recruited by the Australian government for his knowledge of Japanese) she moved with her three small children to Birregurra, a small town in the Western District of Victoria where her parents-in-law lived. Living conditions there were very hard, with no electricity or running water, and she was alone, chopping wood, carrying water from the pump, and living with no amenities and no help. As a result she was unable to paint, and was cut off from all cultural life, except reading.
 * In 1948 she returned to Melbourne and resumed family life with her husband. She visited galleries and became interested in modern art (4). Then she taught art history and art in Ivanhoe Girls Grammar from 1951 until she retired in 1971. At the same time she resumed her own art work. She became interested in print-making and in the late 1950’s took classes in lithography, etching and wood-cuts at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, now RMIT University. There she met and worked with well-known artists who used the printing presses for their own work. Among them was Fred Williams whom she befriended and admired greatly. That group of artists went on to form the first Australian print group called Melbourne Prints (5). They held their first exhibition in 1958, and she exhibited with them for three years, receiving good reviews for her work.
 * During this period she produced many powerful black and white wood-cuts and lino cuts, influenced by artists such as Kathe Kollwitz and the German Expressionists. They are figurative, mainly portraits of people she saw around her in the city - old migrant women, women with children, lonely old men, young athletes and members of her own family. The National Gallery of Australia acquired thirty of them. Her output was small, but enough to exhibit each year.
 * In 1963 she made her first trip abroad and travelled to Italy, Paris, Madrid and London, visiting the major museums and seeing the originals of all the great works she knew so well from reproductions only. In London she was particularly impressed by Turner’s late watercolours and also those by Emil Nolde, and on her return to Australia she began to paint in that medium, fascinated by the transparency of pure colour and the way it overlapped. She abandoned figures and drawing and her watercolours became entirely abstract representations of the essence of the Australian landscape, its light, contours, colours and strange beauty. She had her first one-woman show of watercolours at Gallery 99 in 1968. Patrick McCaughey, the art critic for The Age (a Melbourne newspaper) gave her work a highly positive review referring to “a floating lyricism, distinctive and genuine”(6). She won the Maitland watercolour prize twice, in 1966 and 1970.
 * In later years she turned to mixed media paintings or collages, combining the abstraction of her watercolours with the “realism” of added elements such as newspaper cuttings, labels, handwriting, people’s names, photos and tissue paper. She explained them as “a need to comment on the time I live in”, and also “remnants from the past” (7). These collages are extremely complex, in vibrant colours, and many of them are deeply personal, intended for a child, grandchild or friend.
 * Over the years she took part in a number of exhibitions, sometimes with other artists, in particular with a group of women who met every Tuesday (Mary MacQueen, Barbara Brash, Lesbia Thorpe and Nancy Clifton), and one-woman shows, the last of which was in 1984 at Niagara Galleries in Melbourne. She died in Melbourne on January 21, 1989 at the age of 81.
 * Like many women artists of her generation she found it very difficult to reconcile work, teaching, raising a family and finding time to practise her art, which is why her major work was produced between 1958 and 1985. She once said that she envied male artists who could devote their whole life to their art because they had wives!
 * Style and reception valuation
 * Nancy Clifton’s works were praised for their intensity of feeling and mastery of technique whether it be in her stark black and white prints or her watercolours and collages. (1) (6))
 * Awards
 * 1966    1st Prize - Maitland Prize for Watercolour
 * 1970    1st Prize -Maitland Prize for Watercolour
 * Selected Group exhibitions
 * 1958  “The Melbourne Graphic artists”, Australian Gallery, Melbourne
 * 1960  “Melbourne Prints”, Johnstone Gallery
 * 1961  Painting, Drawing and Sculpture, Victorian Artists’ Society
 * 1962  Melbourne Prints, Argus Gallery,  Melbourne
 * 1962  Melbourne printmakers, Gallery A, Melbourne
 * 1963  Philadelphia Print Club, Philadelphia U.S.A.
 * 1966  Maitland prize for Watercolour: First prize
 * 1967  Royal South Australian Society of Arts, Maude Vizard-Wholohan Art Prize exhibition
 * 1968  Contemporary Art Society of Australia, Argus Gallery, Victoria
 * 1969  (Third) Andrew Fairly Art Prize, Shepparton Art Gallery
 * 1970   Maitland prize for Watercolour: First prize
 * 1971   Contemporary Graphic Arts. Athenaeum, Melbourne
 * 1974   Australian Watercolour Institute, Blaxland Gallery, Sydney, N.S.W
 * 1976   Australian Watercolour Institute, Sydney
 * 1976   F.E. Richardson Watercolour Purchase, Geelong Art Gallery
 * 1977   National Gallery of Victoria, Relief Prints from collection: Woodcuts and lino cuts 19th to 20th century
 * 1978   Group exhibition watercolours, Clive Parry Galleries, Beaumaris, Victoria
 * 1980   Mornington Prints, Women’s Art Exhibition, Niagara Galleries, Melbourne
 * 2006   “From Tuesday to Tuesday”: prints by Nancy Clifton, Mary MacQueen, Barbara Brash and Lesbia Thorpe
 * Mornington Peninsula Regional Gallery
 * Selected Solo exhibitions:
 * 1968      Gallery 99, Melbourne, Watercolours
 * 1974      Flinders Gallery, Geelong, Watercolours
 * 1975      Europa Gallery, Melbourne
 * 1975      The Excelsior Hotel, Hong Kong
 * 1978      Gallery de Tastes, Melbourne, Watercolours
 * 1981      Niagara Galleries, Melbourne. Prints, Collages
 * 1984      Niagara Galleries, Melbourne, Watercolours
 * Represented
 * Nancy Clifton is represented in the National Gallery of Australia, Canberra, the National Gallery of Victoria,
 * The Newcastle Art Gallery, N.S.W., the Geelong Art Gallery, Victoria, The Campbell Hughston Collection, Latrobe Valley
 * Arts Centre, and is extensively represented in private collections in Australia, England and France.
 * Bibliography
 * McCulloch, Susan. The New McCulloch’s Encyclopaedia of Australian Art, 4th edition 2006, The Miegunyah press, Carlton Victoria, p.328 ISBN 052285317 X
 * Germaine, Max. A Dictionary of Women Artists of Australia, Craftsman House, Sydney, 1991 p.82 ISBN 9768097132
 * Germaine, Max. Artists and Galleries of Australia, volumes 1 and 2, 3rd edition Craftsman press, Sydney 1990, p125
 * ISBN 9768097027
 * Campbell, Jean. Australian Watercolour Painters 1780 to the Present Day, Craftsman House, Sydney 1989, p.296
 * ISBN 0947131280
 * Australian Prints and Printmaking database listing printmaking artists in the print collection of the National Gallery of Australia. https://www.printsandprintmaking.gov.au/artists/5270/works
 * National Gallery of Victoria print collection https://www.ngv.vic.gov.au
 * Adams, Tate. Melbourne Printmaking in the 1960’s, paper presented at the second Australian Print Symposium NGA Canberra 1992 www.printsandprintmaking.gov.au/reference/1300
 * References
 * 1. Alan Warren, The Sun, Melbourne, September, 1968
 * 2. Leyshon White, Commercial Art School. State Library of Victoria. https://find.slv.vic.gov.au
 * 3. Allan S. Clifton was the author of “Time of Fallen Blossoms”, published by Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951
 * 4. Interview with Nancy Clifton (dated 1979) by Wendy Hearn, Women’s Art Register Bulletin Vol 2, number 1, Autumn 1989
 * 5. Interview with Nancy Clifton (dated 1979) by Wendy Hearn, Women’s Art Register Bulletin, Vol 2, number 1, Autumn 1989
 * 6. Patrick McCaughey, review of Nancy Clifton’s exhibition of watercolours at Gallery 99 in 1968, The Age, Melbourne,     September 12, 1968
 * 7. Interview with Nancy Clifton and a review of her exhibition of collages by Andrew McKay, The Australian, Oct 15, 1981 Chevelue (talk) 17:07, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Chevelue
 * Go to the original draft, wherever it is (don't copy and paste it here again).
 * Add reliable independent sources (that is, more reviews instead of interviews).
 * Put {{subst:submit}} at the original draft, not over here.
 * I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 18:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You can create your draft here Draft:Nancy Clifton copy and cut your article content from here and paste to the draft page. Theroadislong (talk) 19:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * First of all, I apologize for the way I sent my draft - I am stillin the learning process.
 * With regard to your comments: I did extensive research on my subject, but she was active before the digital revolution and the only medium then was newsprint where I managed to find some reviews and articles Chevelue (talk) 09:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sources do NOT have to be online. Theroadislong (talk) 09:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * With regard to your comments: I did extensive research on my subject, but she was active before the digital revolution and the only medium then was newsprint where I managed to find some reviews and articles Chevelue (talk) 09:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sources do NOT have to be online. Theroadislong (talk) 09:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nancy Clifton (November 22)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dan arndt was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nancy Clifton and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk/New_question&withJS=MediaWiki:AFCHD-wizard.js&page=Draft:Nancy_Clifton Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dan_arndt&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Nancy_Clifton reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Dan arndt (talk) 06:01, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Dan arndt.Yes I am disappointed but I would love to see my article "corrected" like a teacher does with the "offending " parts crossed out so that I could re-write it. I think that I wanted to present my subject as emblematic of women artists and the challenges they face combining work,family and their art but obviously this is not the place for it. And have I confused Bibliography with references which in my article only refer to quotes inside the text Chevelue (talk) 08:05, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Your chatty style of writing is not suitable for an encyclopaedia article, See WP:YFA for help with that and also see WP:REFB fro help with formatting sources. You have undertaken the most difficult task on Wikipedia. Theroadislong (talk) 08:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I re-wrote my draft of Nancy Clifton's biography taking your comments on references into account and I thought I had submitted it in December but obviously you did not receive it Please advise exactly what steps I must take to send you a standard format file to complete this operation. Chevelue (talk) 17:55, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Would somebody please answer my recent messages. I sent a new revised text to you in December 2023 taking your advice about references and footnotes into account but I have never received an answer and time is running out.After your initial rejection I said I would give it one more try but my last comments from you were on 22 November 2023. Chevelue Chevelue (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Nancy Clifton has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Nancy Clifton. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 08:13, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I am feeling discouraged but I am going to give it one more try because I worked hard on theresearch. I will follow your advice concerning the style and will take out the passagesthat are purely anecdotal and concentrate on the facts only - studies and training, working in different media, reviews of her work. I was rather surprised however when I looked up the other three artistswho formed the group called From Tuesday to Tuesday Chevelue (talk) 16:55, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello. Something worries me.I sent a new draft of my Nancy Clifton article in December which took your criticism into account but there is no evidence that you received it. Then today I came across the original unedited version on something called Wikitia. How did it get there and who are they? They are asking for money for a contributing to my draft which is the one you rejected. Chevelue (talk) 15:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Answers to your questions on Draft:Nancy Clifton
Hi, Chevelue! Your questions since November 2023 are scattered over a couple of sections on this page; I thought it would be easier for you to read them if I answered them in one place.

First, my gentle suggestion is to ping people, tell them on their user talk where you left a message for them, or both. Help:Talk pages has instructions for how to ping. Otherwise, (as you have already experienced) no one knows you've sent a message. (I came across your questions because I helped you submit the draft and returned to check on it.)

Second, the way to resubmit Draft:Nancy Clifton is to go there, and do all of the below in order: As you can see in your list of contributions, Special:Contributions/Chevelue, you've made no edits to the draft since creating it November 2023. Your inference that no draft reviewer has seen your changes is correct.
 * 1) click the edit tab in the upper right
 * 2) add sources and make the changes directly on the draft
 * 3) publish the changes
 * 4) click the "resubmit" button in the big red "declined" box
 * 5) This should lead to a form. Click the blue "submit" button there.
 * 6) A new yellow box should appear on the draft itself, confirming the draft is in the (re)submission queue.
 * 7) Be patient and wait. The queue is almost perennially backlogged and reviewed by volunteers in no particular order.

Third, I am unfamiliar with Wikitia itself, but it is likely one of many unaffiliated mirror sites hosting their own copies of Wikipedia pages. This is allowed by the Creative Commons license Wikipedia releases its text under.

However, anyone asking for payment in return for edits is a scammer. We have a warning and more details at WP:SCAM.

Hope that helped. I should have covered the main points, and I would answer some of your other questions if that wouldn't make my response even more unwieldy to read. If you have more questions, just put it below, then ping me. You can also go to User talk:Rotideypoc41352 and say, "I've left a message for you on my user talk; please respond there". Cheers, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for noticing me. I really thought my new draft would have reached you in December. The changes I made involved much more than just adding the references. I took into account the comments on my "chatty" style and cut out any superfluous anecdotes or opinions, so do I still send the old draft and show everything I deleted as well as the references that I added? Is there no way of sending the whole new draft? Chevelue (talk) 14:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Good thing I returned to check for replies—I would not have known you responded otherwise. If you saved this new draft on your computer, you can try copying it, pasting it into the Draft:Nancy Clifton page, and publishing the changes. In general, you can just edit that page directly. Also, just out of curiosity, may I kindly ask why it is nigh a word-for-word copy of User:Pytchka/sandbox? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:14, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That is very strange but it is a user name that belongs to my daughter who always helps me when there are things that I don't understand on my computer. I don't know how it got there. I will now do what you suggested.Thank you so much. Chevelue (talk) 07:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message on my user talk; I reply here to keep the main conversation all in one place. I see you've completed steps one through three in my list above from 18:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC). May I kindly ask you please go to Draft:Nancy Clifton and clicking the resubmit button inside the red box (step 4)? From there, you should be able to complete steps 5 and after. Thank you, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:16, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for all your help. Now I will just arm myself with patience as the French say. Chevelue (talk) 08:16, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Nancy_Clifton&action=submit&veswitched=1
 * Hello again, You have been so kind and helpful that I just want to tell you that yesterday I sent one more version of my draft with new referencing and I am hoping that this time is the last. Please let me know if you received it. Chevelue (talk) 13:35, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There's some error with the formatting. Let me try untangling it tomorrow (as I am out and about today). I will temporarily move it out of the draft submission queue, then move it back in when ready. Hope that works. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:34, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. Those are the things I find most challenging. I really appreciate that. Chevelue (talk) 06:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've done my best to untangle the formatting, and I've put the draft back in the submission queue. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Nancy Clifton has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Nancy Clifton. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 08:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, I read that and said I would re-write the draft taking your comments into account. I sent it in December 2023 but apparently it did nor reach you so I have just sent it again Chevelue (talk) 08:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nancy Clifton (April 11)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Vanderwaalforces were:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nancy Clifton and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk/New_question&withJS=MediaWiki:AFCHD-wizard.js&page=Draft:Nancy_Clifton Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vanderwaalforces&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Nancy_Clifton reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Nancy Clifton has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Nancy Clifton. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 08:55, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nancy Clifton (June 28)
 Your recent article submission has been rejected and cannot be resubmitted. If you have further questions, you can ask at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk/New_question&withJS=MediaWiki:AFCHD-wizard.js&page=Draft:Nancy_Clifton Articles for creation help desk] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help. The reason left by Mdann52 was: This topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia. The comment the reviewer left was: Unfortunately, the sources do not demonstrate notability, with many of them being WP:PRIMARY. A few have also failed verification. I can't see many more online, so rejecting this topic, at least for now.

Mdann52 (talk) 10:34, 28 June 2024 (UTC)