User talk:Dan arndt/Archive 3

Copyright issues
Please be aware that Wikipedia only accepts non-free (copyrighted) content under strict criteria. In general, it is not permitted to copy and paste several paragraphs from web pages or magazines and dump them verbatim into our articles. I have cleaned up some of your contributions with this in mind, but you may want to go back through things yourself to ensure there isn't anything I have missed. Thanks for your attention to this matter. (ESkog)(Talk) 03:55, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Even after this message, you re-inserted copyrighted text into multiple articles. Please stop copy-and-pasting sentences and paragraphs from sources you don't own. (ESkog)(Talk) 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Current-work-vol1.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Current-work-vol1.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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Disputed Fair Use Rationales (various)
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 * Image:PK Comedy.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
 * Image:Tgffh.jpg - done
 * Image:Whoami drapht.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
 * Image:Trifekta logo.jpg - done
 * Image:Triffids 991.jpg - done
 * Image:Triffids-tape 1.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
 * Image:Triffids-tape 2.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
 * Image:Triffids-tape 3.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
 * Image:Triffids-tape 4.jpg - Modified previous - done!!
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Disputed Fair Use Rationale (Various)
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 * Image:Stems-tour.jpg - done
 * Image:Step off the edge.jpg - done
 * Image:Westcoastb&r2005.jpg - done
 * Image:Westcoastb&r2006.jpg - done
 * Image:Westcoastb&r2007.jpg - done
 * Image:Stockholm-triffids.jpg - modified - done
 * Image:Stoneage cameos.jpg - modified - done
 * Image:Spiders-gig.jpg - done
 * Image:Screaming targets.jpg - done
 * Image:PK Comedy.jpg - modified - done
 * Image:Pitt St Farmers.jpg - done

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Email
Could you either enable email here, or send me an email via Special:Emailuser/Moondyne quoting your reply address. I wish to correspond on a certain matter offline. &mdash;Moondyne 12:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media - Schvendes
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Orphaned non-free media Josh Pyke
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 * Image:Current-work-vol1.jpg

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Orphaned non-free media - Dan Kelly & the Aplha Males
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 * Image:Tabloid blues.jpg

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Orphaned non-free media - Matty B
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 * Image:The Courageous.jpg
 * Image:Simple but effective.jpg

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Orphaned non-free media - Gyroscope
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 * Image:Gyro demo.jpg

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Article created for Gyroscope (Demo)  - image no longer orphaned

Orphaned non-free media - Downsyde
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 * Image:Downsyde elquestro.gif

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Article created for El Questro  and image replaced/updated with a better quality image

Orphaned non-free media - Rollerskates
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 * Image:Seventypie-rollerskates.jpg
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Orphaned non-free media - The Panics
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 * Image:Panics factorygirl.jpg

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Article created for Factory Girl  - image no longer orphaned

re: Love in Bright Landscapes
I just checked the APRA website-it is working and returns the result we need:type raining pleasure in at http://www.apra.com.au/cms/worksearch/worksearch.srvlt. He is credited correctly as a co-writer of the song on the credits of the Paradise Motel's Some Deaths Take Forever EP if I recall correctly. In that period James P's contributions weren't credited well (I believe Born Sandy only mentions "Songwriting contributions gratefully received from James Paterson" whereas he got credited on the label of the "Goodbye Little Girl" B-side but it was never registered with the publishers (and therefore he never got paid!) Oscillon (talk) 06:22, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

PS Just dug out my copy of the Some Deaths Take Forever EP-their fractured, dubby cover of Raining Pleasure is clearly credited to McComb/Paterson - so there ya go! Oscillon (talk) 14:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Have a look on the APRA website-there is a clear McComb/Paterson credit for Raining Pleasure listed there-it also mentions the Paradise Motel cover, so maybe that could be a relevant chain of evidence? Don't worry about the other stuff (ie the Goodbye Little Girl B-side)-I just mentioned it to illustrate a point and it is apocryphal (James mentioned it to me once) Oscillon (talk) 02:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

James has said that when the Triffids landed in Sydney he got to know David McComb as a result of his involvement with JFK and the Cuban Crisis, who were a very popular live band at the time. He will be playing with the Triffids at the Metro (Sydney) shows in January 2008 and contributing liner notes to the upcoming Domino reissue incorporating the Lawson Square Infirmary EP. If you go over to the Miscellaneous Memories section of the Triffids forum at http://thetriffids.com/forum/ you'll find he's been posting a lot of information and answering people's questions (under the userid jimjamtwo) about his involvement with the band. He's a very approachable guy and I'm sure he would be happy to answer any questions you had. Oscillon (talk) 01:35, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The Fergusons
It looks as though another editor has beaten me to this article you requested I take a look at. It looks good. FYI, I've also deleted the redirect from Talk:The Fergusons/Temp which is no longer required. The Fergusons article needs some fine tuning here and there but it's getting close to becoming a nice rounded article. -- Longhair\talk 00:32, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media - Resin Dogs
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 * Image:Grand theft auto.jpg
 * Image:Live like dogs.jpg
 * Image:Hardgroove-rd.jpg
 * Image:Definition-rd.jpg
 * Image:Volcanic lab.jpg
 * Image:Grinnin.jpg
 * Image:Gimme a break.jpg
 * Image:Take off-rd.jpg
 * Image:Gunshot dub.jpg
 * Image:Hi-fidelity dirt.jpg
 * Image:Set it off-rd.jpg
 * Image:Daily trouble.jpg

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Hoodoo Gurus
I have a problem with Stoneage Romeos, could you re-check the last two paragraphs before the Track listing section: was the album re-released in 2006 or 2007 or both (on the same date!)? I've also had a quick go at Hoodoo Voodoo in your sandbox, and left comments at it's talk, likewise comments at HG template talk and at my own talkpage. (Sorry if I'm piling it up on you.)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Article Lead & Formation Sections
After reading the Assessment feedback at, I've had a go at modifying these sections. I also believe a photo of HG would help but other than album covers I don't have access to a suitable image.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:37, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also read Article Ratings [below] on this page and particularly User:Dihydrogen Monoxide's helpful comments. Therefore > More revision of whole HG article: it now has a History Section with subsections (old sections content is mostly retained); I Chopped out all of your great discography work! (Don't panic - its now in its own article). Further modification of both pages is required.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Singles work

 * Have added the various singles released on the respective album articles but haven't had the time to put in the actual dates for their releases - you might want to add those - am still looking at creating separate items for each single (when I have the time).Dan arndt (talk) 00:50, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've already seen some of this on Crank - looks good. I'm still not entitely sure about Singles Dates or Orders. BTW, have you had a chance to check Stoneage Romeos yet? Also, "Turn Up Your Radio" is on the Crank 2005 re-issue and was released as a single but when? Was it 1995 or 2005? If the former, your order needs fixing. In any case should it be given as a single on the Crank article or because it wasn't on the original it gets left off Crank's list?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:53, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm starting with notable singles, first will be "Leilani". I changed HG template to indicate this, (if I haven't finished by the time you read this it might still be RedLinked). I also changed the template to differentiate between Current & Former members: hope you like it.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Future singles: Got some advice on my talk page that should assist in attracting attention to HG articles.

Hey again. When creating these articles, please tag them for WP:AUSMUS, as I have done here. Thanks for your help, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 06:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * (In cutting and pasting I may have lost a link).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

That's My Team
"What's My Scene?" article discusses the "That's My Team" single, I'll change the HG Template so that "That's My Team" goes to the same article. If you believe it should have its own article, then when it is created, the HG 'plate can be changed.Shaidar cuebiyar 22:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Blue Cave
Going through HG studio albums, I get to Blue Cave and see in the track listing (original release) #14 is "Monterey Sunset", however: 1. HG website gives only 13 tracks with hidden track before 1st as "Whoopee Cushion". 2. Rate Your Music gives (a) US Zoo Entertainment has 13 tracks, released August 13; (b) Canadian True North has 14 track listing "Whoopee Cushion" at #14; (c) AUS Mushroom Records is same as HG website (Whoopee hidden before 1st). 3. Discogs give US and AUS listings both with 14 tracks, #14 hidden track as Whoopee.

None of these have "Monterey Sunset" listed. Do you know which is correct for the original release?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Album is called In Blue Cave by Faulkner! See Dave Faulkner June 2000 where Dave describes tracks for Ampology and states "...'Blue Cave', or strictly speaking 'In Blue Cave' was a rewarding experience...". A quick check of both Album covers shows the "In" is smaller and written in red: it also appears on the spine of the CD case. BTW, I've found "Monterey Sunset" on the 2005 re-release as #14 but this does not show "Whoopee Cushion" at all. I've had a go at updating Blue Cave but it could do with your careful eye on it. UPDATE: while checking the album covers from Discogs, I noticed the CD inner tray of the US Zoo Entertainment release has a recipe for Monterey Sunset: a cocktail (containing absolute Vodka!) that I've yet to sample... see you after a few...Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Will try and track down a copy of the album and have a look at the actual track listing on the album sleeve - will let you know what i find. 08:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Have confirmed that "Monteray Sunset" is not on the original release of the album & have therefore changed the track listing in the article.Dan arndt (talk) 04:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shaidar_cuebiyar"

This page was last modified 04:41, 6 December 2007.
 * Found "Monterey Sunset" listed as track 14 on underlay tray of US Zoo Entertainment Records release (swirled about & hard to read but there). This image is found at site referred above from Discogs (also site describing the cocktail). Should we change Blue Cave to reflect this? I've add some more info since you last edited - including quoting the cocktail recipe: I believe it adds to the album.

BTW, was the US release put out later than the OZ (Mushroom) release? Is the cover in the Infobox the US release? If so, should the Infobox have the OZ release? In any case, the re-release cover has a sticker indicating Remastered + Bonus tracks but otherwise is the OZ release cover, should we have the OZ version sans sticker?

Further more the package titled "In Blue Cave" was a limited edition (300) copies of the entire album In Blue Cave on seven 7" vinyl records. I've added this to the article Blue Cave. Should all seven be considered to be Singles? Consequently be put in the HG Template, or should "In Blue Cave" be considered to be an EP, or an album released in a special format? I vote for the latter (leave it with the album). I also believe that "In Blue Cave" did not get a general release as a single and so shouldn't be listed in the HG Template as a single. Nevertheless, I like your opinion on all of the above.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those changes at Blue Cave and your comments. I've tweaked it again to redirect readers to appropriate Album cover. RE: re-release version. Doesn't the third image in the article have the sticker - or is it actually part of the cover?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My vote is to keep the third cover - it tells readers what to look for & adds to the article. It doesn't clutter as it is positioned neatly near the tracklisting for the Re-release. Since the article now talks about differences of the OZ & US releases the reader is informed that HG chose the OZ cover for the re-release. I'm happy with Blue Cave now, I'll move on to Mach Schau.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

"Leilani"
Could you have a look at [my talk page]? I believe you, Dan arndt, should be included in any recognition for this article: I've learnt a lot about HG & wiki by emulating your style from the HG album articles. I especially like your great HG Template. Your articles on "Tojo" & "My Girl" are fantastic too. I'll tweak them before moving to "Bittersweet" (unless you get there first!) as the next significant HG single. BTW, sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I've been sans internet for nearly a week (suffering withdrawal!) but I see from your inputs that the HG articles were in good hands.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

"Bittersweet"
I've made at start with "Bittersweet" and will trawl various HG articles chasing IntLnks.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:48, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

HG Template
Changed Singles section to have each "Titled" instead of Titled following usual wiki format for Singles/Songs. Hope you approve.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:39, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

"Like Wow - Wipeout!"
I'm about to start this article, I'll leave "I Want You Back" for you. I'll edit HG Template too.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

"Come Anytime"
Started "Come Anytime", edited HG template: order of singles "Axegrinder" <> "Another World" using Faulkner's list in "Pop and punishment" article.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

"Miss Freelove '69"
Started "Miss Freelove '69", adjusted HG files' Internal Links to suit.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:50, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Article ratings
Hi Dan. The best way to have your articles rated is to list them at WikiProject Australia/Assessment/Requests and someone will generally look at them in a couple of days. However, I am happy to take a look at them for you now. If you think your article is of a good enough standard you can list it at Good Article candidates where it will be assessed against the Good Article criteria. Dihydrogen Monoxide has got several music articles to FA and GA standard and assesses music articles for GA listing. It may be worth asking him to take a look at the articles for you as well. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 08:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally don't use the assessment area of the wikiproject - I just rate articles myself usually, or else just work towards GA (per the GA criteria). Hoodoo Gurus is certainly a B class article at the moment, and could potentially break through to GA as well (which would be cool) - take a look at Powderfinger and Small Mercies for some example articles. A few things to do - create a Hoodoo Gurus discography so that the bulky discog stuff can be removed from the article. Merge all  the formation/history/hiatus/regroup/hall of fame stuff into a "history" section (see Powderfinger). Ensure everything is sorted. I can take a more specific look later on, but the main thing at the moment is getting formatting of the article right, if you get my drift. Cheers, &mdash; Dihydrogen Monoxide 12:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, this was Powderfinger when it passed GA - the most noticeable difference (I think) is the placement of sections, obviously, and the referencing. Ignore the album covers - they shouldn't be there. &mdash; Dihydrogen Monoxide 12:22, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I've reassessed both The Stems and The Triffids to B class. There's usually no problem with assessing articles yourself up to a B class standard if you believe the article has attained such a standard. When you feel the article has been taken beyond a B class rating, the Good article and FA processes will assist you with the next steps. -- Longhair\talk 22:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Response
Everything that is posted on my talk page is still there in the history, so, really, there is a record of what's been discussed. I just decided I prefer doing it that way after trying other solutions. Precious Roy (talk) 05:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Downsyde elquestro.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Downsyde elquestro.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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 * Replaced with updated image

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Blackjack 2007.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Blackjack 2007.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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 * Fair Use Rationale provided

Disputed Fair Use Rationales - Downsyde
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 * Image:Downsyde epinonimous.jpg
 * Image:Downsyde lotg.jpg
 * Image:Downsyde-lesfortunate.jpg

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 * Fair Use Rationale added for all images

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Gotye-LearnalilgivinanlovinSingleFrontCover.jpg
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 * Fair Use Rationale added for this image

Triffids GA
Hi Dan, happy to help. I don't think the Triffids is all that far from GA status and I am happy to help where I can (although if you were to concentrate on getting one article up, Hoodoo Gurus is probably closer to the standard. A good friend of mine still has an old copy of Born Sandy Devotional on vinyl that he plays from time to time, usually at the end of a looong afternoon.  I must admit I am not their biggest fan, but the album cover is magnificent.

One thing that does need to be clarified. Is the band "The Triffids" or the "Triffids". We need to be consistent throughout all the relevant articles. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 05:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Jeb JEW.jpg)
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"1000 Miles Away"
I've started Hoodoo Gurus single "1000 Miles Away" article. Also tweaked various HG articles & their template.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Red Jezebel
''Your edits are a step forward on the article - have clarified the issue of the intended EP and added some additional references. Dan arndt (talk) 08:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)''
 * Thanks Dan. I couldn't find info on the EP so I'm glad you've fixed that bit. :) Somno (talk) 23:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Schvendes.jpg
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Disputed Fair Use Rationales - Jebediah
Thanks for uploading: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Jeb anniversary.jpg
 * Image:Jeb Twitch.jpg
 * Image:Jeb harpoon.jpg

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 * Fair Use Rationales added for these images

Orphaned Images Fourth Floor Collapse
Thanks for uploading:


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 * Saved until I create articles for these

Kimble Rendall
Started Kimble Rendall article, connected some links to HG pages.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:The Victims.jpg
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Possibly unfree Image:Asg_group01.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Asg_group01.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nv8200p (talk • contribs) 02:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Roddy Radalj
Edited your sandbox on Roddy Radalj, IMO it still needs more work before posting.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Was re-editing the page when you were editing it! Weird edit conflict message & so I backed off to find you've posted it. Content of Biography is good but I don't like the Discography Section with all its sub-sectioning into headings for each band he has been a member of: a personal preference thing.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Re-vert the form of Discography? I preferred the variety you had earlier in your Sandbox. I believe the Biography section could be sub-sectioned better. BTW, Rate Your Music gives Guns Girls & Guitars released in 2004 not 2005. Do you have anything on his Private life eg schooling, when did he migrate, if married, children etc?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You're too efficient! I keep running into things related to Roddy Radalj that I was going to do when I find you've just done them. Good on ya.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Is his album Orgazmatazz or Orgazzamatazz? Current article has both. The Perth Punk article by Radalj also gives both! Former on a photo (album cover?) and the latter in the accompanying section of his article. OzRockDb gives latter. AMO gives former.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

David McComb
Am in sydney until tommorrow noticed at sydeny festival there is a thing utilising his works - do you have the low down on it or should i have a look for you? SatuSuro 03:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

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 * Ooops! - added licensing details

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Tellyou-ner.gif
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Bite the Bullet
Added two album covers.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Current article uses Bite the Bullet - Director's Cut album cover in Infobox; shouldn't it have the single CD Bite the Bullet (live) album cover? (It looks very similar but does not have Director's Cut across bottom region). The Director's Cut cover can then be placed alongside it's tracklisting where Doppelgänger and Bubble and Squeak each have their own covers.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hoodoo Gurus assessments
Had a go at assessing each of the HG studio album articles at their talk page (feels weird doing so: a bit like trying to rate my own essays for English!). I think they're at least B class & Low importance: some could be higher but I'll leave that to others because of possible bias. Left a comment at each after assessing.

IMO, most of HG's Compilation albums require a bit more work before they're up to B class. Hence, I haven't assessed them as such yet.

Only single I've rated (since creating/initial contributions) is What's My Scene?: B class and Mid importance (#3 & NRL anthem). IMO, other singles are, at least, Start class with some possibly B class too but I'll get around to assessing them later (you're welcome to have a go of course).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've had a go at beefing up the Lead of HG article with some cutting and pasting of existing material, some new stuff including US chart positions for "Come Anytime" and "Miss Freelove '69". I've added a Side projects section (needs more content). I've also mentioned The Moops > Persian Rugs. Could you cast your careful eye over the changes & fix what you don't like? Related query: was Grossman a member of Persian Rugs or did he leave before Moops morphed into Rugs? If he was in Rugs did he contribute any recorded material to Mr. Tripper? Different sources give me different information. BTW, I have an idea that there was a single released in Brazil but not OZ; possibly "Night Must Fall"? I haven't included it in the HG Template as I'm not sure enough (& don't have a good ref).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

What about 'Hoodoo hiatus' being called 'Persian Rugs' and made a sub-subsection of Side projects? If you agree you can change it, if not leave as is.


 * "Bittersweet" > I'll go with your advice and I'll put in a sentence on Hole's version on the single's page alone.


 * Bite the Bullet > I've got a pic of the single CD and will upload it, the existing pic in the album's Infobox was the cover of the 3CD release and I'll transfer this existing pic alongside the tracklisting of Bite the Bullet (live).


 * Article Status > re Tours: I'll leave you to find more on this as I've got almost nothing other than HG's own website.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Just cos
Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC) 

has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Gurus Good article?
Hi, Dan. The article is very close now to a GA listing. All that is really required now is to work your way through the article and add a citation to any claim that is likely to be challenged. Opinions about what needs citing varies markedly amongst GA reviewers, so be conservative and cite anything that moves.

The article is reasonably well-written, at least to GA standard in my mind. Some reviewers will comb the article for WP:MOS issues, so if you see any that stand out, fix them. The article is stable and it covers all that it should. An freely licenced image of the band would be a bonus if you can find one. Otherwise, the citations are the only issue holding this one back. Well done and good luck. -- Mattinbgn\talk 05:04, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I replied on my talk page. Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 05:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Article status
You're going great with your recent edits (despite my interference: sorry about that). Re: ARIA did you check the PDFs already quoted for refs? Re: band photo, are publicity photos supplied by record company/band management allowed in wiki Infoboxes?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Part of Dave's acceptance speech at Courier Mail article. But may need whole speech: so I will keep looking.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Another quotable Dave at Herald Sun article.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * 'Free' photo at Flickr Creative Commons but not very good.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * HoF songs were "The Right Time" and "I Want You Back" see The Australian article. Howlspace has ref for Simon Townsend/Don Lane. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaidar cuebiyar (talk • contribs) 07:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just uploaded HoodooGurusatBrushSquarePark.jpg to wiki and was about to put it in the Infobox but you won!Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

You'll probably need a NPOV ref for Baker sacking, I've read Faulkner's version but he may not be neutral. I've already put Dave's film work in side proj sectn: does it need to be merged?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Good job there with Baker & other recent improvements especially all that tour stuff. Should all the side projects be in Associated acts in Infobox? Should Dave's page be signalled in his sub-subsection for solo projs? I'm not good with wikitables so I can't really help much there. Chart posi problem means getting a Kent Report (which I can't access) to replace the Melbourne charts (I supplied) as they aren't National.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Checked each ref (nearly 50 of 'em) to see whether they still linked correctly, also fiddled with some often changing urls & accessdate. Also removed two ExtLnks: one's redundant (Lyrics) and the other I coudln't get to (obsolete?). Where's Kingsmill's side proj? (other than Moops & Rugs)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Kingsmill
I'm having same probs with Mark. Re: A Lump of Coal weren't all Gurus on there for "Little Drummer Boy"?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Tried Dragon the band site, which has video clips of Selina's 27/3/98 concert (can't believe it's nearly 10 years ago!). Who're the drummers? I believe Grossman played bass on some tracks too.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Hoodoo Gurus songs
Should we have a Cat (as a Sub-cat of Australian songs by artist) for Hoodoo Gurus songs? If so, do you know how its done?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I see Cat has Hoodoo Guru songs not Hoodoo Gurus song this needs fixing?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah songs, but what about Gurus?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Great job Dan, thanks for following up so quickly.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I like how you did Cat: albums too. I only wish I could move so quickly.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to learn how you do all this... see Category:Hoodoo Gurus and follow to Category:Hoodoo Gurus members. Does this work?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't know about only Cat:HG not Cat:HG membs, what happens after someone makes a Persian Rugs (PR) page? I'd put that page on Cat:HG but James Kendall wouldn't go on Cat:HG membs. Consider HG&PR as akin to Split Enz / Crowded House. BTW I've added HG:Template & HG:Discogs there too.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of Categories, do individual band members get a Category:ARIA Hall of Fame inductees or does the inductee only get in if a solo artist? Other than Rick how many HoFers are in twice?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You make a good point about HoFs.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Dave Faulkner
Some discussion of The Geeks Buncle/Baker > The Victims Baker/Faulkner songs' disputed authorship seems needed. I've read different versions of the situation by Baker, Buncle and Faulkner; but I'm not sure what exactly the NPOV would be so I haven't written it in.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have found information on a Bittersweet (album) from Discogs (see Discogs entry on Bittersweet). I see that Faulkner supplied backing vocals for Courtney Love's lead vocals on "Bittersweet" cover (track 7) by her band Hole from a Big Day Out concert (1999). It's an unofficial release but do you think this version of the song should be mentioned on the "Bittersweet (Hoodoo Gurus song)" article? Should it (&/or the album itself) appear on Hole, Courtney Love, Dave Faulkner, &/or Hoodoo Gurus articles? Alternately, because its unofficial should it be ignored?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Found that Dave is one of 500 new entries into 2007 edition of Who's Who In Australia (released the week before Howard lost: so it's already out of date) and added it to Dave Faulkner but should it be included in Hoodoo Gurus? I haven't read the entry.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 14:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Rockit poster 05.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Rockit poster 05.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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Mach Schau
Found another single (released in U.S.) "When You Get to California" (see VH1 entry) added it to Mach Schau article and HG Template.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Release dates
AMO website reviewed by Kim Salmon has album released (15th: see next link) March, 2004 not December; single "Nothing's Changing My Life" entry released February not March (supplied by EMI). Does album article need changing? What about main article?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Single released 16 February 2004 according to musichead Australia.

Other queries:
 * Persian Rugs recorded "Be My Guru" in November 2004, is this their last known output/performance?


 * When did HG start recording Mach Schau - perhaps end of 2003? See Howlspace entry & Guruvosity entry. Latter site gives 'Mach Schau' tour with support from Spiderbait occurring from April 2004: implies album was already released? See Stand and Deliver interview March 6, 2004 with Dom Romeo (broadcast by ABC radio on 28th March). March 14 release given at Chaos.com entry.


 * "Nothing's Changing My Life" (song) is on Proudly Australian - Celebrate Australia Day 2004 (Discogs entry) a 4-track give away CD credited to Various Artists and released with Sunday Telegraph on Jan 25th, 2004.


 * "That's My Team" CD was released September 2003: did they officially reform for this and then head to rehearsals prior to recording studios?


 * Was "White Night" released for radio airplay in Nov/Dec 2003? The track was later B-side to "Nothing's Changing My Life". Check EMI Media release on Mach Schau includes Nov 17 2003 as radio only release for "White Night".


 * fasterlouder entry quote: "The only good news to come out of November last year was the Hoodoo Gurus heading back into the studio."

If the above are true, then end of hiatus should be moved to November 2003 from 2004, Mach Schau & "Nothing's Changing My Life" release dates also need fixing.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 14:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Hoodoo Gurus
I think the article is very close to GA standard. Almost, but not quite there yet... It's well referenced and covers a great deal of the band's history, but some sections need to be fleshed out a little more such as the section on solo work. I'd also aim to reduce the depth of the Table of Contents by reworking the History section into suitable sections. BTW, I've moved King Tide as per your request. Cheers. -- Longhair\talk 09:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Some good news there, Dave. While we're getting close - I've got a question: Should the article explain Why they were called Le Hoodoo Gurus, who thunk up the name & that sort of stuff?
 * More proj stuff - I've added Grossman's work with Matt Moffitt in 2001, the band performed under a variety of names including Matt Finish, Matt Moffitt, and Fire Hand Ember (but I've stuck with Matt Finish as being less confusing).
 * Grossman joined Jack Nolan, Scotty Alpin & Hirst in a side proj from HG/Ghostwriter called The Ned Kelly Gang to record Looking for the Sun (2004).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Tribute album
Should Stoneage Cameos be listed in Discography & Template (& eventually its own article)?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Rick Grossman
I'm going to have a go at getting a separate article on Rick: it'll take awhile & hope to have it up later today. So I won't be doing much else on wiki for today.


 * Rick Grossman is up for your careful eye: I've rated it as start class as I believe it needs more refs to get to B class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaidar cuebiyar (talk • contribs) 04:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comments on this article: I've still got lots to do but appreciate your help. (I'll try to remember to sign this time).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You're asking the right questions but I don't have the answers yet.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

More HG
I'll let you handle "Poison Pen". As to managers: Coupe may be notable enough to be mentioned in HG article: he was a rock journo, wrote books including one with Glenn A Baker, managed both HG and Paul Kelly, promoted a number of tours. He may have affected HG's direction:

1st, getting them to U.S., signing to US label & onto MTV;

2nd, if the sacking of James Baker involved (Coupe + JB) vs (rest of HG);

Then he would be notable enough for the main HG article (I also think its cute that he was willing to take on the rugs but this may have been tongue in cheek or pie in the sky). Furthermore, was Coupe involved in Brad's sacking from Beasts?

Otherwise just leave it for "Poison Pen" article: I'll let you decide.

Other issues:


 * What about Mach Schau / "White Night" stuff?


 * Opinion on Dave's entry in Who's Who: should it be mentioned in HG article? Becomes notable to HG if they are referenced in his entry & I can't see why they wouldn't be but I don't have access to the book.


 * Tribute album - I was going on wiki articles of a number of bands (e.g. Split Enz) with such albums, also it was mentioned at their HoF induction.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

"Poison Pen"
Was it written about Baker's sacking & journo's ire at HG? Faulkner has a different version at "Pop and punishment", do you have any ref for the article's claim that "Poison Pen" was written about journo's?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Shepherd sacked from Beasts of Bourbon in retaliation for Baker's sacking from HG? See I-Bar interview with Brad.


 * What was HG manager, Stuart Coupe's opinion on Baker's sacking from HG? Since Coupe was also a journo, later a book writer, did he write any articles about the situation?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Managers?
Speaking of "Pop and punishment": according to Faulkner their first manager was Stuart Coupe and he was fired (why?) to be replaced by Michael McMartin. Is McMartin still their Manager? In the back of my mind I recall he assisted in their reformation but I can't remember where I read it. In any case, should we include managers in the HG article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaidar cuebiyar (talk • contribs) 03:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Bot was too fast. I mis-spelt McMartin.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've since found that McMartin is still their manager.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Stuart Coupe
How Coupe started managing HG; and getting the boys to an interview for MTV (Brad's too hungover to go: so Clyde fills in). See Sex, Drugs & Mum in the front row p73-74.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Coupe was willing to sign on Persian Rugs, see Laughing Outlaw interview.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

More HG singles added
I've started "Death Defying" and "Poison Pen".Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Added "Good Times" and "In the Middle of the Land".Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Added "The Generation Gap" and adjusted HG discography both on main article, on separate discog article & on template.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:12, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Added "Axegrinder" and "The Right Time".Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Persian Rugs
Added a quote by Brad explaining why Rick left after EP (Mr. Tripper).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media - The Drones
Thanks for uploading:
 * Image:Drones ep.jpg - article added
 * Image:Drones live.jpg - article added
 * Image:Drones-HereComeTheLies.jpg - article added
 * Image:Drones-biac.jpg
 * Image:Drones-cloth.jpg
 * Image:Drones-sfb.jpg - article added
 * Image:Drones-tmd.jpg - article added

The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 01:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationales (various)
Thanks for uploading:
 * Image:Bob Evans DYTIT.jpg - FUR provided
 * Image:A-sleepwalking.jpg - FUR updated
 * Image:BG Morning Sun.jpg - FUR updated

However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 04:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

HG 4 GAC?
I think you're right, being too close to the article I keep thinking of little things I'd like to add but the time has come to make the move. In the interests of stability of the article, I'll not edit it for awhile (unless a reviewer suggests some further tweaking). Thanks for your enormous input into the article (& associated pages): I've learnt a lot about wiki. Let's see what floats to the top!Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Future collaboration
Seems like a good place to continue, but give me about a fortnight before diving into OzCrawl: I think I need to clear the HG Aquanet out of my hair first.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:39, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Drones-HereComeTheLies.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Drones-HereComeTheLies.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 20:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

FUR updated - so I made a spelling mistake - shoot me!

HG discog
I put a wikitable for charting singles exists in the main HG article - you could start with it if you wish. The first half of the singles' positions are supported by a ref to McFarlane's book (Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop) with the latter half supported by australian-charts.com (via ARIA). Posies for two singles in US "Alternative" rock charts are supported by a ref to Billboard. I couldn't find any chart info for their other singles. I'm not sure about sales or Gold record status for their singles. McFarlane gives info on these for some albums (for possible wikitable?). Speaking of albums, aus-charts gives Swedish album posi for 3 or 4 albums and NZ for Ampology.

I believe the Lead to this article needs beefing up. Perhaps a very brief intro to HG for folks who get there without having read main HG article?

BTW, can you adjust it so the summary table at right doesn't overlap main entry below and left? (This might happen naturally if the Lead is beefed up.)

What did you decide about "In Blue Cave" as a single? I believe it shouldn't be in HG Template singles area or in a Singles table on the HG discog page, it's mentioned in Blue Cave entry which, IMO, is sufficient.

Did you find out any more about non-Oz singles? Aside from "When You Get to California" (US), I believe there may have been other singles released in Brazil only (e.g. "Night Must Fall") and US only (e.g. "In the Echo Chamber", "I Was a Kamikaze Pilot",see AMG bio "Zanzibar") - but these may just be songs that had high radio play but were not actual singles?

Should any Persian Rugs discog be mentioned on this page? The EP, in particular, is by HG under another name; conversely leave it as is and for a future Persian Rugs article?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hoodoo Gurus
Why can't I see it on Featured article candidates? &mdash;Moondyne 02:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Try WP:GAC instead.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

HG discog wikitables
Very good start! I'm in awe. Are the Billboard 200 album posies going in later? BTW, I'm deleting "In Blue Cave" single from the HG Template.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD A Friend of Mine
Just in case you missed it, an article to which you contributed is on the chopping block. See Articles for deletion/A Friend of Mine (listed 15 February). Grimhim (talk) 10:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)