User talk:Elonka/Archive 9

Mop?
 WJBscribe would like to nominate you to become an administrator. Please visit Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then contact WJBscribe to accept or decline the nomination. A page has been created for your nomination at Requests for adminship/ 2. If you accept the nomination, you must formally state and sign your acceptance and answer the questions on that page. Once you have answered the questions, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so. WjBscribe 20:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * (deep breath) Okay, let's do it!  I hope that my actions since the last RfA have proved to the Wikipedia community that I love it here, and sincerely want to do a good job. :) Admin tools will help me to be even more effective at helping out.  Or in other words:  Thank you, I accept. :) --Elonka 15:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Sanchez + Spy v. Spy
1. Congratulations on your nomination ^. Maybe you can help me understand something that seems to be flying over me. Really, I know it's a controversial page, but the timidity about the "controversial" aspects of the controversial article in question go way beyond what the cautions in WP:BLP were intended for, imho. I still do not understand why the Colmes interview, for instance, is not allowed under WP:BIO since it is not "invasive" and the subject is "notable". WP:BLP, I think, doesn't want us putting up birth certificates and driver's licenses, not interviews on nationally broadcast news programs. I genuinely do not understand why that is an unreasonable interpretation and no one has offered an explanation. Have you encountered any similar situations? If so, how did the reasoning go?

2. The page in question seems to get people on edge. I noticed you [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:WJBscribe#Warrantless_threats_are_an_abuse_of_your_adminship. accused] Truthjusticeamericanway of being a sock-puppet - this is not so. I will swear to it on a stack of frivolous lawsuits. I know him (well, we met through mutual pixels) and he is not Pwok. I think Pwok threw in the wiki-towel, and I can't really blame him. I understand his frustration. By the way, I'm not Pwok either. I'm also not Truthjusticeamericanway, or a series of numbers, or Benjiboi, or Alice, or the cheshire cat. I hope, if you make admin, you don't decide to just block people on whims.Typing monkey 01:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Elonka, thanks for your response, and thank you also for reviving the discussion about consensus concerning the escorting allegations. Regarding sockpuppetry / meatpuppetry, can you help me understand why the bluemarine account has not also been suspended?Typing monkey 05:57, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Priory of Sion, Rennes-le-Chateau - SPAM
Try reading some of the French material on the Priory of Sion and Rennes-le-Chateau: there are no "mysteries" there only spam, and more spam.

Priory of Sion, try Jean-Luc Chaumeil's recent book "Testament du Prieure de Sion".

Rennes-le-Chateau, try Rene Descadeillas' "Mythologie du Tresor de Rennes-le-Chateau" and Jean-Jacques Bedu's "Autopsie d'une mythe".

If you do not understand French, try Putnam and Wood's "The Treasure of Rennes-le-Chateau: A Mystery Solved" (Sutton Publishers, currently scheduled for a second revised edition).

Of course there are numerous communities of believers out there who are immune to the facts, and in their desperate plight of frustration create their very own fake Sauniere letters, fake Sauniere Treasures, fake Sauniere parchments --- it's a growth industry.

Watch out for this peddling of piffle....

wfgh6621 July 2007

COI (whatever this stands for)
Hi Elonka, I have sent you an email to clarify my interest in the article. Thanks for approaching us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Newcreationwebmaster (talk • contribs) 07:03, July 25, 2007

Featured article candidates/Pauline Fowler
Hey Elonka, have you noticed that they have restarted the Pauline Fowler FAC from scratch? What are we supposed to do, vote again? Or do you think we should just withdraw. I dont think I can stand to read the same pompous responses from some of them twice :) Gungadin 13:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sorting this out Elonka. I'm quite relieved it's over actually, because I think some of those reviewers were getting a bit patronising. As i've had a long break from editing the Pauline article already, I dont mind getting to work on it again sometime soon. When you have time we can try and come up with a plan on the talk page and see how everyone wants to proceed. Your prior suggestion about merging all in-universe stuff into the out-of-universe info is something to consider. I think it could definitely be done. My only concern is that if we set a plot-free standard with this article, the hundreds of other soap articles that contain an in-universe plot section may be expected to follow suit. It seems to me that undue weight on the FA was given to those editors who totally oppose in-universe information. I personally think a mix is fine, and clearly many other editors do too, it's just that the opposers are far more vocal and it is these same people who hang around the fiction policy/guideline pages trying to eradicate plot summary all together. But we can discuss this further on the article talk page. BTW good luck with your RFA. Gungadin 18:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

August 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter
WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter August 2007
 * --Christopher Tanner, CCC 16:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Soaps ad
Hey stranger; I was planning to commission one of those Wikipedia ads from User:Miranda, thinking that any advertising is a good thing! In case you're not familiar with them, people can put them on their user pages and have single or ever-changing ads for WikiProjects and such. Anyway, I was curious if you had an idea for content. I really don't know where to begin, but was thinking something along the lines of, "Know more about soap opera characters than your own family? Join WikiProject Soap Operas" or something like that. Check out some of the other ones. TAnthony 21:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, to be honest, I don't much care for them. I think it's plenty to have a WikiProject banner on the article talkpage, and leave it at that.  You've been doing a great job of tagging, btw!  Building up quite a library.  :) --Elonka 21:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point, I won't bother. Speaking of tagging, I just remembered that I had left telenovelas out; I'm thinking it's appropriate to formally include them in the Project, what do you think? We're still having recruitment issues, obviously, and I think it can only help. TAnthony 02:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

RfA
I think you might be confusing me with someone else. You mentioned that "commented a I'd couple times about previous discussions that I was involved in". I don't think I've referred to any specific discussions - rather, my comments have referred to your history of using speedy deletion tags gratitiously, which, by its very nature, leans more to a pattern of problematic incidents rather than a couple of specific and easily cited incidents. Rebecca 01:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Recall
Elonka, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship about the use recall in the rfa process. It isnt intended as a reflection on yourself or your RfA. I started considering what the recall process was(hence my question) and seeing that some editors indicated during their rfa they would be available and either never added them selves to the category or have since removed them selves from it. Gnangarra 10:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Marcin Dunin
Portrait of archbishop Marcin Dunin in Pozanń Archcathedral Basilica Radomil talk 16:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome
You are very welcome for the kind words. :) By the way, in the next few days I'll be sending an E-mail to you so look out for that. :) Acalamari 02:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm jealous
I've never been to a Sci-Fi Convention, (or anything other than medical conventions, lol) but I've always wondered what they were like, I bet they are just a complete blast! I hope you had a most excellent time, and holler at me when you get home and have a bit of time, I have something I'd love your input on! Ariel ♥ Gold 03:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry Elonka! I opposed you. I am a new Wikipedian and joined Wikipedia on July 15, 2007. However, I have already created more then ten articles and improved the biography of several noted individuals.

If you can convince rest of us that you will not abuse your power as an administrator, then I will support you. User:Ned Scott pointed out that you are a poor judge of consensus. User:Rebecca pointed out that you cannot be trusted with the deletion buttons. I believe that we should respect the views of those who disagree with us. I looked at your contributions and I think you have done a great job as an editor. You have made over 32,500 edits and made 23811 edits in article namespace. That's great. More than 150 editors supported you. I will look at your future contributions and next time I will support you. Best of luck! RS2007 07:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

You deserve to be an administrator!

 * I don't have much to say at this moment about this, but I am very disappointed that your second nomination for becoming an administrator didn't succeed with the keys to the administrative power of Wikipedia. And the sockpuppetry that went on during this second nomination process of yours is wrong on so many levels. Just wrong! Not to mention the canvassing that I'm certain went on in this process. You deserve to be an administrator here at Wikipedia as much as any other Wikipedian administrator due to the fact that you have proven yourself as one of the top ten best editors we have here at Wikipedia, regardless of what happened in this second nomination of yours. I will see you around, Elonka. I know that you won't let what happened in this second nomination bring you down. Take care. Flyer22 12:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Flyer22, I think you would have been a great admin. It's a shame all your positive qualities were overlooked by some, but even though your RFA wasn't successful, I hope you will boosted by all the support you were also given. I'm glad to hear you're not giving up :) Gungadin 12:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry I missed your RfA; I've been traveling a lot. I would have supported you. I wish you the best for the future and keep doing what you're doing. -- A. B. (talk) 16:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message. Really, of all the people you cut and pasted, I may be the least important; we've already talked. Do let me know next time, though. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You're welcome, Elonka. I'm sorry you didn't make it this time; please give me a shout next time. Best, SlimVirgin  (talk) (contribs) 03:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto the above...thanks so much for the note! You've got a lot of supporters. Let me know when you try again! – Dreadstar †  04:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing that the RfA failed, I feel twice that bad for not getting around to voice my support. I know that would have done little to sway that 2:1 score, but still. I'm confident though, that you will be nominated again and by then have proven your competence to even more people. - Cyrus XIII 09:18, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

RfA thanks
Oh wow....I saw you delivering these messages last night (Australia time), which was about 18 hours ago! That's dedication (or maybe you sleep :P). Either way, I'm sorry you didn't get through, and please try again soon. Just don't cause this again! Happy editing, Giggy  Talk 02:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipolitics
I looked at you contributions and I think you have done a great job. You have made a significant contribution to many articles on Wikipedia. More than 150 editors supported you. I looked at some other requests for adminship. I found that many successful candidates made fewer contributions than you and received fewer votes than you! Now, I understand ‘wikipolitics’ better. Next time, I will support you. Good luck! RS2007 02:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure you'll get there one of these days. Not that being an admin is such a big deal anyway. Deb 11:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

E-mail
I had promised to send one. It has been sent now. :) Acalamari 03:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry
 Here is a userbox for you. Spread the love, and give it to another user, so that they, too will feel that it is a beautiful day.

Have a beautiful day! I'm very sorry about your RfA and some things said about you. I hope everything's going OK! Love, Neranei


 * I'm so sorry your RfA didn't make it through this time :( - A l is o n  ☺ 05:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh Elonka ! I wish you good luck--NAHID 05:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Best of luck! Also, I think I saw you at a lecture a few years back at UVA... or maybe I am mistaken!  Either way, I have never seen an Rfa with so many votes before.  Jmlk  1  7  05:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome; I hope the sci-fi convention was cool!  Neranei  T / C  22:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What a great pity! The community shouldn't have been too harsh on you like that. At any rate you still an excellent user and you can count on my support any time. (I'm afraid it may be a cliche but your photograph with Cyrillic Projector code illumination is real cool!) @pple 11:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What a shame. If there is a next time, I hope that people are willing to let bygones be bygones; I know you would make a wonderful admin.  Can't sleep, clown will eat me 03:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...
Well, since I apparently blocked you, I thought I'd give you some balloons to say I'm sorry. =) -- Gogo Dodo 07:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Just got edit-conflicted adding cmts about same balloons to Gogo's talk page. See and you'll know what hes talking about. Probably some disgruntled vandal taking "revenge". --Hdt83  Chat 08:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Re your message: No particular reason for the balloons. Just thought I would drop everybody I supposedly "blocked" per my impersonator above. -- Gogo Dodo 18:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

RfA
Hey! leaving a comment for everyone that participated must have been quite a chore! Still the fact that you took the time to do so speaks volumes about you. Hopefully your next RfA will be successful. Keep at it! Roadmr (t|c) 14:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

---

Re thanks for RfA participation, you're welcome. I left a tiny reply on my Talk page per your request for suggestions (in case you don't watchlist all googols of editors you left notes for :-), but nothing you probably don't already know. Best, Baccyak4H (Yak!) 16:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry your RfA did not work out, and I'm especially sorry that you had to endure comments such as Danny's. Anyway, take care Raystorm   (¿Sí?)  20:35, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I will be happy to support you in the future. Politics rule 21:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Vossstrasse
Has someone told the participants in the old poll about the present poll (all of them, of course, and neutrally)? I'm sure they'd be interested. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No idea, sorry. I'm barely keeping my nose above water with RfA thank you notes at the moment. ;) --Elonka 15:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Happy Elonka's Day!

 * Excellent! A very happy day to you, Elonka! :) Acalamari 00:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Again have a great Elonka day! Now want some real advice? Eat some cake and icecream. Have a drink. Its your day! :) Love,  SLSB  talk  •  contrib   12:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Happy Elonka's Day. Clearly a well deserved award or honor. Hmm. Notable award or honor. I'm off to add it to your article... --AnonEMouse (squeak) 12:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Happy Day, Elonka! Enjoy yourself! :)  Neranei  T / C  19:02, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Your RFA
Elonka, I wanted to stop by to express moral support (in addition to my support !vote). As I said in the RFA, I suspect your view of the CSD criteria is different than mine but I do think you should have the tools if you want them. I believe that some of the opposers are seeing ghosts that don't exist (as I pointed out here, but many have concerns that can be addressed (or have been addressed by you and will become more apparent over time). I hope that the comments of the 140+ supporters, as well as the constructive comments of those currently opposing the nomination, let you know that the community really does value your participation. -- DS1953 talk  17:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but as I understand your position on the Kaaba, I have to oppose, with the deepest reluctance; perhaps you could explain. I would also like your opinion of BLP, especially the issues discussed and involved in Requests for arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff/Workshop. (The main decision page has been courtesy blanked; I have no idea why.)Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You cqan send me e-mail; but you may want to comment publicly. If you do e-mail, let me know on wiki: it's more likely to catch me. As for the question I conflicted with: it can be very frustrating dealing with DRV without admin privileges; I don't see that you need say more. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I put it too late; but I was in edit conflict with the close. Your statements do reassure me; I will Weak Support for the record; and I expect to support next time. (Of course, I came to the RfA expecting to support this time.) Let me know. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry you didn't make it. Let me know when you give it another go. &lt;&lt;-armon-&gt;&gt; 02:55, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It was a huge shame it didn't pass. Be assured that I'll be back next time to support you. Acalamari 15:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the community made a mistake. That happens. I sure hope (well actually I'm certain) that this won't prevent you from continuing your great work around here. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson 17:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add that I'm disappointed as well, I feel you would be a valuable asset, and I hope you don't let this discourage you in any way. I'm here if you ever need to talk. Ariel ♥ Gold 17:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[[Image:Nuvola_apps_amor.png|20px]]
 * Sorry. Politics rule 17:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Regret Better luck next time. Jehochman Talk 18:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Condolences. Stiff upper lip. Your responses were quite good. Try again in 4 months. You'll get it next time. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 21:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * AnonEMouse said it for me. I too think you will get it next time. Hang in there. --John 21:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Same here. You really deserved to be promoted in my opinion. It just seems that there were a lot of people who had editing disagreements in the past who got personal, and the closing bureaucrat didn't look past the numbers (sockpuppetry and canvassing didn't help; that whole thing was a mess). Good luck next time, and don't bother notifying me of it then; I'll watch for it myself so we won't get into a minor controversy like this time. --Infophile (Talk) (Contribs) 18:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks all very much for the kind words, and yes, I'll be trying again soon. :) I actually find the outcome of the RfA somewhat amusing, considering that a few hours after it closed, I'm moving along with real-life stuff. I'm at the North American Sci-Fi Convention this weekend, giving talks and signing autographs. My lecture on the Knights Templar went really well!  Internet access is a bit spotty here, and it makes Wikipedia seem very far away, but don't worry, I'll be back home again soon, and back to my normal schedule.  Thanks again, Elonka 02:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's face it though: it's unlikely that the next RfA will be any different than this one unless (and even then...) you completely stop contributing to complex discussions. I'd rather see you forget about RfA entirely and continue your fine work than see you think twice before speaking your mind. Pascal.Tesson 03:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting choice. Actually, my #1 priority is to maintain my sense of integrity and honor.  It is my hope that I can do both that, and also make admin some day. Though it may require multiple visits to the RfA stocks!  ;) --Elonka 05:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see that as inevitable. The puppets are gone - make no mistake, they had an influence - the Muhammad depictions stuff should blow over, and anyhow can be rectified, and some of the appearance of COI can be addressed per Matt57 below. Plus, if she continues to contribute at a prolific rate, still more people will get to know Elonka.Proabivouac 04:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Eric Grossman, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. WebHamster 18:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't that what sandboxes are for? By my reference 48 hours isn't new. I will of course take your comments onboard though. WebHamster 19:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Just a technicality, but the creator of the article is not supposed to remove the speedy tag per WP:CSD. I agree that the subject appears notable, though. If you had added hangon there could be no complaint. EdJohnston 19:55, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like there was sufficient assertion of notability at the time the article was tagged. Agree with EdJohnston's comment about the hangon template.  Elonka, in order to avoid appearance of impropriety suggest you ask an independent editor to review if something like this ever happens again.  Looks like a good faith misunderstanding on all sides.  No big deal.  Durova Charge! 22:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and sorry... I was in the middle of article expansion, and the edit conflict (the tag was added within 5 minutes of when I created the article) caught me by surprise. Since it seemed a clearly inappropriate tagging, I just removed it and went on, but you're right, I should have used hangon. Apologies to all involved -- it won't happen again. --Elonka 22:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I usually short-circuit premature WP:SPEEDY requests by putting underconstruction or inuse at the top of an article when I'm creating it. Some new-page-patrollers are nice enough to overlook an article with such a tag.  If I'm doing WP:AFC work, I do it immediately after creating the article.  In AFC work, the first edit should be as faithful to the original submission as possible, for ease of GFDL tracking.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  23:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Eric Grossman
Consider making a disambiguation page for Eric Grossman. Hurricane Iwa has a citation by a researcher with the same name. McNaughton Park Trail Runs mentions an ultramarathon runner by the same name. Thankfully, neither article has the names wikilinked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidwr (talk • contribs) 20:11, August 11, 2007 fixed typo davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  21:43, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Clean up for articles about your family
This is good for you, people have protested about the alleged "vanispam". I've started with this. I'll go through each article relating to your family. They all have to be sourced, OR has to be removed and if they're not notable, they have to go. If you see anyone not cooperating with this, please ask them to do so. They might not listen to me, but they will listen to you. Also, are there are other articles about your family other than the ones I listed here? Also, dont be afraid to jump in and clean up this stuff, as Jehochman has advised. So you'll be doing a good job for everyone, for yourself, most of all, by cleaning up these articles and I hope you're going to help me with all this. We will make sure everything is sourced and if its not, it has to go and if someone is not notable, they have to be AfD'd. Make sure you tell all your "friends" about this so they dont jump in to do "keep" during the AfDs thinking that thats what you'd like them to do. Explain to them that this is the right thing to do, and if someone is not notable, then you have to declare a Delete and others will follow. Even though they're about your family, if they're not notable, they shouldnt be on Wikipedia. They have to be treated like any other article. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 03:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Really, you couldn't wait a day or two? El_C 03:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Whats there to wait for? I have talked to her about this, and talked to Jehochman too. This has been an issue for both her RfA's. She should be thankful that I'm making this initiative. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 03:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Matt57, your edit summary says "Every statement needs to be referenced in the article or it will be termed as OR". Since you seem to be in quite a hurry to deal with these matters, I want to let you know that several of my relatives also have articles on Wikipedia that contain some statements that are not referenced.  Please take a look at Richard Warren (my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather); George W. Bush (my tenth cousin, once removed); George H. W. Bush (my ninth cousin, once removed); Millard Fillmore  (my second cousin, six times removed); Franklin D. Roosevelt (my seventh cousin, five times removed); or my other relatives including Franklin Pierce and Ulysses S. Grant.  Please let me know when you have removed every unreferenced sentence from those articles and I will identify dozens of other relatives of mine whose articles may contain OR. Thank you in advance for your assistance. -- DS1953 talk  05:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats too much to deal with. Yea, there's unsourced statements there too like Ulysses S. Grant which should be fact tagged and then removed, however the people you linked are people known for things other than being your relative. Thats not the case in the articles about Elonka's family. The fact is that I could go right now and claim that Ulysses S. Grant jumped off from a 60 foot building in 1869 holding an orange in his hand and survived and if thats removed, every other unsourced statement should be removed as well. If you want to clean up Ulysses S. Grant, thats up to you. You expect me to clean up the 1.8 million articles in Wikipedia? I dont think so. Stop being softies, people. I'm doing the right thing. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 13:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Elonka, I'm waiting for your answer to this issue. What do you think should be done about your family articles? They're all unsourced by the way. Unsourced text will have to be deleted. Are you going to respond to this? --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 00:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Matt, please stop harassing Elonka. You've made your point. Given the huge difference of opinion as to whether it is appropriate for Elonka to edit articles about her family members under present policy it would appear she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Do what you feel you must and then move on - your continued focus on Elonka is starting to concern me... WjBscribe 15:25, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * WJScribe, please keep your allegations of harrassment to yourself, ok? I didnt harrass her or anyone. You're harrassing me infact by your hostile and bullying behavior. I gave her more than a week to respond about this and she hasnt responded at all. She could have said the same thing you said, right? No, she doesnt care about this. This was a big issue in her RfA and she doesnt care.
 * Elonka, you'll get another big oppose from me if I'm around in your next RfA for this and everything you've done in your past since like this, you either never responded to an issue or didnt respond good enough. Since you didnt respond, I'm going to start dealing with the aricles myself. On one hand I hope they do make you admin so all doubts will be clear as to whether you can be a good admin or not. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 00:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Seconding WJBscribe's opinion. Elonka has decided to recuse herself from articles that relate to her family.  That's a fair and reasonable choice.  Matt's posts read as very hot.  Editors disagree about policy all the time and within a certain scope that's expected and normal, but - Matt - your conduct at her RFA and subsequent attention to Dunin family biographies in particular has raised several editors' eyebrows.  It would have a better appearance if you accepted her choice to back away from this topic.  Durova Charge! 01:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Elonka has told me if I need more information, I can get it. "If you have a specific question about a specific fact, you are welcome to ask me". --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 15:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Articles seeking input
Hello, I was hoping if you could go over a couple of articles for me, Lulu Spencer and Kate Howard. I've been trimming Lulu's article down quite a bit and later will be looking to add references and make it better. Kate Howard's article, I think it is pretty ok. I have added references to popular culture, as well as some research to tie it in to the "real world". I appreciate any suggestions you may have. I have also tried to trim down and fix Alexis Davis and fix Amelia Joffe and a bunch other in dire need of editing. But, these are the four I am focusing on right now.-- Char leen mer ced  Talk  19:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Boyd
Hi Elonka, hope you're well! I have posted some comments at the mediation, please feel free to reply at your leisure. Best, ~ Riana ⁂ 07:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Antoni Dunin
Hi, I noticed you are of Dunin. Any relation to Dunin-Marcinkiewicz? `'Míkka 18:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Bowdlerized images
Hi Elonka, there is a broad consensus not to use text or images which have been thusly altered by wikipedia editors, see WP:PROFANITY (for example).Proabivouac 00:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Antoni Dunin
You've said that "If you have a specific question about a specific fact, you are welcome to ask me". For Antoni Dunin, you put in a reference:
 * "Engagement of Countess Revealed", Detroit Times, April 23, 1957.

What does this paper say exactly? Do you have a copy of this? I want to know for sure what this paper is saying about Antoni Dunin, so we can reference it. Is it possible to get a digital scan of the relevant section? --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 15:37, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have been looking hard for an online version, but have not been able to locate one. If anyone reading this has access to archives of Detroit newspapers, I am confident that you can find multiple articles that reference the names "Dunin" or "Alfred Niezychowski" (the guardian of my father and his sisters). I'll see what I can do about scanning the article in. I can't quote the wording from memory (I'm at work right now, and the article is in a scrapbook somewhere at home), but it does confirm his title:  It says that my aunt Krysia Dunin (Antoni's daughter) is the daughter of a Count, and that she had to flee from Poland to come to the United States. There is also a 1945 New York Times article which confirms that Antoni's wife, Countess Sophie Werner Dunin, was the daughter of Edward Werner but was killed by the Germans.(pdf) That occurred during the German blitzkrieg of September 1939, a thoroughly horrible month in Poland, when thousands of Poles were killed, including both my grandparents (Count Antoni Dunin and his wife Sophie, a young married couple at the time).  Their three young children, all under the age of 6, were orphaned.  For more info about the historical context, see Invasion of Poland (1939). Also, if anyone has access to the archives of the Colonial Dames of America, Niezychowski's wife Nanine Ulman was a member (and a blood relative of Thomas Jefferson). The Dames usually maintained extensive family trees, and may have confirmation of this information as well, though I'm not certain, since they may only focus on blood relationships, and not guardianships.  There is also an article in a Detroit paper that shows Niezychowski and the children publicly thanking Senator Homer Ferguson for his assistance. According to what I've been told, Ferguson added a rider to a Congressional bill, to help obtain visas so that the children could enter the United States.  I have been unable to find out exactly which bill, but I do have a copy of a letter written from Senator Ferguson to Secretary of State George Marshall, naming several of my relatives and asking for Marshall's assistance in helping the orphaned children to enter the United States.  --Elonka 18:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm talking to other people about this. I agree with them that we can make references to the News paper or other sources using and so on. About this:
 * It says that my aunt Krysia Dunin (Antoni's daughter) is the daughter of a Count, and that she had to flee from Poland to come to the United States.
 * This is not information about Antoni Dunin himself, however, I can use this in his article (and possibly others) while mentioning his daughter. I'll use the PDF link you gave about Antoni's wife in the same way - it seems a valid reference. I dont see how we can use Invasion of Poland (1939) for anything since it doesnt mention anything about Antoni Dunin, unless there was a 3rd party reference linking the two. The last few lines you mentioned about Niezychowski are not about Antoni either. Basically, I'm looking for 3rd party references about Antoni Dunin. I can use that PDF link you gave and it would be great if you can email me the scan of that Newspaper "Engagement of Countess Revealed", Detroit Times, April 23, 1957.". This is a reference mentioned on other articles too so it would be nice if we can verify this reference. As far as I'm seeing it, we have 3 reliable references for Antoni Dunin: the list of Virtuti Militari awards, the PDF link you gave and the 3rd for that Detroit News paper (Countess Revealed) which I hope you'll give me soon. Are there any other reliable references for Antoni Dunin or thats it? --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's best to wrap up this conversation.Proabivouac 01:28, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Request
Elonka, I request that any future dispute you have with me be discussed on my user talk, or on the talk page of the relevant project/gallery (or on the noticeboards, if you insist,) not behind my back on IRC. Okay?Proabivouac 21:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just sent you an e-mail.Proabivouac 01:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Did you know...

 * Coolness. I think that's my first DYK, thanks for letting me know!  :) --Elonka 16:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Administrator issue
Hi Elonka,

I haven't been here to chit-chat in a long time, but I am having an issue that involves the naming of -- yes --- Polish articles. I am saying as much as I can while trying to keep my head level, so can you take a peek at Free City of Cracow, Cracow Uprising and my talk page (with relevant replies on other pages). I want to be able to say civil in order to achieve the best, due outcome. Note also the talk page for the Free City. It recalls a previous issue with an administrator. Pages have been moved, redirects locked up, etc. I have told the admin that I would like to do an RfC, but I am unsure of what those fully entail. Thanks! Charles 07:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Antoni Dunin
Antoni Dunin, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Antoni Dunin satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Antoni Dunin& and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Antoni Dunin during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. THF 18:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Elonka. I've been unable to voice an opinion in the AFD yet, but I've been reading up on Polish Nobility a bit, and it seems that whilst Szlachta were rather numerous, Hrabia (Counts) were rather rare; only 8 were given out by Poland as such, and maybe a hundred (to Poles) by the various countries that dissected Poland in 1795. There are two web pages I've found that go into this, http://www.pgsa.org/polelith.htm and http://www.wawrzak.org/hrabiowie.htm and whilst they don't mention any Dunin as such, they do mention a Dunin-Borkowski family. These pages seem to say that a Stanisław Dunin-Borkowski was awarded the title of Count by Austria (the Holy Roman Empire) in 1819. Your geneology says there was a Stanislaw Dunin with no birth or death dates, but since his father was Antoni Dunin (1760-1787) and his son was Stanislaw-Tadeusz Dunin (1831 - 1883), I suspect he may well have been of the right time period, adult but not old, in 1819. Is this the family in question? Are the Dunins from the Austrian part of Poland, as opposed to the Prussian or Russian parts? Is there a Borkowski in the geneology somewhere near that time? Did Dunin-Borkowski become merely Dunin at some time, and can you prove it? --AnonEMouse (squeak) 20:06, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Dunin family
Since the attacks on some of your articles don't cease, have you thought about merging them into Dunin family/Dunin (the latter needs a cleanup)? It seems to be a common practice that family members of questionable notability are merged into the family article.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I added two more sources, hope this helps.  // Halibutt 21:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I can't tell much about the other of your ancestors. In 1920 the village of Maciejowice in Masovia (or rather nearby Kobylnica; the battlefield of Kościuszko's earlier Battle of Maciejowice) was quite notable as the furthest point up the Vistula the Soviet Mozyr Group reached. There were some fights with Russian front guards there during Piłsudski's offensive (see the article on the Battle of Warsaw (1920) for more info), but the picture show some fights in the winter and in the winter of 1919-1920 the Bolsheviks were some 800 kilometres to the east of Maciejowice. Besides, judging by the Russian uniforms, the picture you linked seems to show a scene from the 1860 January Uprising rather than the 1919-1920 war. This might be a poetic representation (you know, like Bonaparte dressed in Roman armour), but the snow definitely is something fishy. Sure, there are other villages of that name in Poland, but all of them were outside of the Soviet sphere of control in 1920.  // Halibutt 12:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)