User talk:Happyme22/Sandbox/Archive 4

Barack Obama
As I stated I would do on the FAR page, I have compiled a list of POV statements currently in the article that need to be amended or reworded. For those of you who may be in question about me: I am not some sort of crazy, partisan out to slander Obama; I am a neutral POV editor dedicated to making Wikipedia a more reliable reference. As an outsider to this article, I hope you take my claims seriously, and I encourage you to remove any pro-Obama bias that may exist (if only when looking over this list :) ). I think this article deserves to be featured as much as the next guy, but there are significant flaws and failures with it when it comes to adhering to Wikipedia policy that need to be fixed.

General issues:

 * There are too many quotes by Barack Obama, especially in the political advocacy section. I understand that they are his views on current topics/issues, but our job as Wikipedia editors is not to let Obama tell his story (that's something that you would find on his campaign website), but to write about his views in a neutral manner. This is a big problem, and one that cetainly should demand immediate attention, as it technically fails WP:NPS. The quotes need to be paraphrased, so that the info is coming from us, not him directly.
 * What about the Republicans? What do they say about Obama? We have a lot of quotes by fellow Democrats and too many by Obama himself, but the only thing I see from Republicans is the "he has been praised by conservative commentators" phrase, which, as I have outlined below, is an unacceptable phrase.

Keynote address:

 * In a word, the section is fluff. The three quotes here do not need to be here; I would create a Wikisource article on the speech, and include the full text there. Take the Ronald Reagan article, one that I have worked on immensely. Reagan won the nickname "the great communicator"; do you know how many speeches I could quote from and put on his page as being "keynote addresses"? Literally hundreds, yet there are few. As a featured article, I expect the same from Obama's article as from Reagan's (also featured), among others.

Political advocacy:

 * (in bold) "His plan would eliminate taxes for senior citizens with incomes of less than $50,000 a year, repeal tax cuts said to favor the wealthy, close corporate..." - said by whom? said by the Democrats, and Mr. Obama. That needs to be stated, otherwise it is misleading.

Books:

 * "Time magazine's Joe Klein wrote that the book "may be the best-written memoir ever produced by an American politician." - ok, this is probably the most POV statement that I found throughout the entire article. It gives the opinion of one magazine columnist, out of thousands worldwide. It's great that Mr. Klein thinks that, but he does not speak for every magazine columnist and surely not every American. This quote needs to be removed because it is factually and historically innacurate; it is the POV of one single magazine columnist.
 * "It was an immediate bestseller and rose to the top of the New York Times Best Seller list by early November 2006." - I'm not so sure "immediate bestseller" is the right way to characterize the book. Perhaps, "it sold many copies quickly and rose to the top...."
 * "Former presidential candidate Gary Hart describes the book as Obama's "thesis submission" for the U.S. presidency: "It presents a man of relative youth yet maturity, a wise observer of the human condition, a figure who possesses perseverance and writing skills that have flashes of grandeur." - A quote like this never would have been accepted on the Ronald Reagan article. I don't think it is that bad, and I'm willing to let it stay as long as some of these page editors eventually back me up if I want to put in a somewhat-flattering quote on Reagan's page ;) I do like the other quote that follows it better, and it probably better adhere's to NPOV as well: "Reviewer Michael Tomasky writes that it does not contain "boldly innovative policy prescriptions that will lead the Democrats out of their wilderness," but does show Obama's potential to "construct a new politics that is progressive but grounded in civic traditions that speak to a wider range of Americans."
 * "An Italian edition was published in April 2007 with a preface by Walter Veltroni, former Mayor of Rome, currently leader of Italy's Democratic Party and one of Obama's earliest supporters overseas, who met the Illinois Senator in Washington in 2005 and has been referred to as "Obama's European counterpart." Spanish and German translations were published in June 2007; the French edition, subtitled une nouvelle conception de la politique américaine, was published in October 2007." - This is just extra fluff which portrays Obama as a very prolific writer, and thus is POV. The Mayor of Rome's support for Obama probably does belong in the article, but this is not the place. Perhaps in the presidential campaign section, or separate article.

Cultural and political image:

 * "Supporters and critics have likened Obama's popular image to a cultural Rorschach test, a neutral persona on whom people can project their personal histories and aspirations." - What a swell guy! He makes everyone feel great! - POV! And that is what this is implying. It is saying that he is a neutral figure who everyone can talk to and he can make you feel better. That is completely POV. This phrase needs to be restructured and have a balanced side to it, reflecting how others, who are not so flattered by the senator, may feel.
 * "Speaking to an elderly Jewish audience during his 2004 campaign for U.S. Senate, Obama linked the linguistic root of his East African first name Barack to the Hebrew word baruch, meaning "blessed."" - so now we are saying that he is blessed. I don't see any other reason to include this than to encourage that point.
 * "Writing about Obama's political image in a March 2007 Washington Post opinion column, Eugene Robinson characterized him as "the personification of both-and," a messenger who rejects "either-or" political choices, and could "move the nation beyond the culture wars" of the 1960s." - What about the other side's argument? According to WP:NPOV, both sides arguments need to be present, and that is not the case here. I see that there is a phrase attributed to Peggy Noonan below this one, but that phrase is not sufficient because it is not giving an opinion of Obama himself, but rather a "warning" to Republicans to not get too caught up in him. There definitely needs to be more balace here.
 * "...and has been praised by conservative commentators, including George Will who encouraged him to run for president." - I brought this up on the FAR page as an example of the POV, and User:HailFire agreed that it needs to be reworded/fixed, because it is lumping all Republican commentators (including conservatives) into this category. Sean Hannity, Larry Elder, Hugh Hewitt, Neil Boortz, and other Republican commentators deserve their own voice too, and cannot be spoken for by only George Will, one of few conservatives to support Obama.

I expect discussion to occur on these items, but I hope that action is taken once the article is unprotected. Thank you for your time. Respectfully, Happyme22 (talk) 22:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)