User talk:Hew Folly

Azeri
Please read the stance of scholarship by leading experts in the topic. Using passing mentions, non-experts and non-WP:RS will not change that. Wikipedia does not engage in revisionism/negationism. Azerbaijanis were not an ethnonym let alone a nation before 1918. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:39, 15 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Dear @HistoryofIran,
 * I would be grateful if you were more specific.
 * Please, answer these three questions so to make our discussion substantive.
 * 1. Where did I reserve to passing mentions?
 * 2. What non-experts did I refer to?
 * 3. What non-WR:RS (if there were any) did I provide?


 * Regards, Hew Folly (talk) 02:07, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 1. At least Iranica and Murinson.
 * 2. Murinson, Allworth, Nahaylo, Swoboda. And some certain others which the links will explain.
 * 3. That question is answered by the links I posted here. Please read them all.
 * Again, the Azerbaijanis were not an ethnonym let alone a nation before 1918. This is a fact denied by the governments in Azerbaijan starting from the Soviets. We already have detailed sources by experts on how the Azeris came to be, much of it can be read here Azerbaijani national identity. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The ethnonym Azerbaijani (with various transliterations) existed long before 1918.
 * 1. Here is an excerpt from the 1762 Fath-Ali-Khan's letter written in Persian and translated to Russian, as quoted by Alexander von Zagareli.
 * Quote: "...посылали ее противъ Ибрагимъ Джалиль Хана, тотъ помянутой Грузинской владелѣцъ на помощь къ нему сына своего съ Грузинскимъ войскомъ присылалъ, и отъ сего воспослѣдовали все сін воинскія движенія: собраніе Дагистанцовъ, мятежъ въ Адарбайд- жанѣ, походъ на Грузію, словомъ напослѣдокъ вся вина на него жъ, Грузинскаго владѣтеля, надеть, потому что, во первыхъ, должно его изскоренить, а потомъ уже приняться за дѣла Карабагскія, и мы вѣдаемъ, по какой причинѣ Грузинецъ къ Адырбайджанцу посылал свою помощь, льстись чрезъ него овладѣть всѣмъ Адырбайджанскимъ дистриктомъ. Итакъ, причина сего моего е. в. донесенія есть сія, что часто упоминаемой Иракли Ханъ находится предан- ным превосходнѣйшему е. в. двору, то въ такомъ случаѣ да благо- волено бы было всевые. е. в. указомъ повелѣть, чтобы онъ намѣет- ника своего изъ города Генжи взялъ, съ Эривана денежныхъ пода- тей не требоваль, а довольствовался бы принадлежащею ему Грузією. Лезгинцы, а съ другой Адырбанджанцы не поднялись бы на Грузію и, разграбя всю ея до основанія, не растощили бъ; сверьхъ сего весьма думать надобно, чтобъ они не подняли также къ тому Турокъ, и вся Персія не здѣлалась бы подверженною ужаснѣй- шему мятежу и кровопролитію."
 * Translation: "...they sent it against Ibrahim Jalil Khan, the aforementioned Georgian owner sent his son with the Georgian army to help him, and from this all the sons of the warrior movement followed: the meeting of Dagistants, the rebellion in “Adarbaijan”, the campaign against Georgia, in a word, finally, put all the blame on him, the Georgian ruler, because, firstly, he must be eradicated, and then take up the affairs of Karabagh, and we know for what reason the “Georgian sent to the Adyrbaidzhani” your help, flatter through him to take possession of the entire Adyrbaijan district. So, the reason for this is my e.v. There are reports that the often mentioned Irakli Khan is devoted to the most excellent H.V. courtyard, then in such a case everyone would be pleased. e.v. by decree order that he should take his monk from the city of Genzhi, not demand monetary taxes from Erivan, but be content with Georgia that belongs to him. 'The Lezgins, and on the other hand the Adyrbandzhanis'would not have risen to Georgia and, having plundered it all to the ground, would not have devastated it; Besides this, it is very important to think that they would not also stir up the Turks, and that all of Persia would not become subject to the most terrible rebellion and bloodshed."
 * Source:  Грамоты и другие исторические документы XVIII столетия, относящиеся к Грузии / под ред. А. А. Цагарели. - СПб. : Комиссия печатания государственных грамот и договоров, 1891-1902. Т. 2, вып. 2 : С 1769 по 1801 год. - 1902. - LV, 330 с.
 * Comment: this WP:SECONDARY was published in 1902 and refered to the 1762 letter. I am not sure that it was related the Soviet period. So, it would be better to say that your "fact" is denied since Imperial Russia or the Azerbaijani Khanates themselves. Hew Folly (talk) 06:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @HistoryofIran you can add that quote to your list, especially comparing it to this one Hew Folly (talk) 06:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It seems you still haven't read the links I posted, which is concerning. It's not a secondary source either, after you have the read all the links, please read WP:SYNTH, WP:SCHOLARSHIP, WP:PST, and WP:AGEMATTERS. The quote just mentions the word "Azerbaijan(i)", which is not surprising, considering the word has existed since the Late Antiquity. Historical revisionism/negationism will not be tolerated in Wikipedia, I hope you understand that. HistoryofIran (talk) 11:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It mentions not only "Azerbaijan" but also "Azerbaijanis" in the context of mentioning other ethnic groups(Georgians and Lezgins), as well. I kindly ask you to read carefully. Hew Folly (talk) 16:36, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This shows that you still have not read the sources nor policies I posted. Again, concerning. I'm outta here. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The expert opinion might vary. Hew Folly (talk) 06:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Please also read WP:GS/AA. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Will consider that. Hew Folly (talk) 06:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024
It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you. Vanezi (talk) 08:00, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Restricted topics
Hi. See WP:GS/AA as several Armenia and Azerbaijan related topics are under an extended confirmed restriction. You are not allowed to edit these topics as you’re not an extended confirmed user. Vanezi (talk) 08:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi. Is editing WP:GS/AA  Talk pages restricted for the non-extended confirmed users, too?
 * Regards, Hew Folly (talk) 09:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * A. The restriction applies to all edits and pages related to the topic area, broadly construed, with the following exceptions:
 * 1. Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace to post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Hew Folly (talk) 11:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics
Vanezi (talk) 08:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Hew Folly (talk) 11:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)