User talk:Hyphantes

Let me know! --Hyphantes (talk) 02:35, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

BC or BCE?
Hi there. As for bc edits.. have to ask: why not? Would you please send me a link that states it is not permitted according to Wikipedia policy? Because I have not seen such a policy, and I have to say, unless it is part of Wikipedia policy I think it is perfectly fair to edit language to be more inclusive and neutral. Anyway have a nice day. Seshata (talk) 03:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)Seshata


 * WP:MOSDATE has the answer, but I see that you've already found it out by yourself. Don't get me wrong, you're welcome, but as a newbie you should try to concentrate on more substantial contributions. --Hyphantes (talk) 09:33, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Still getting my feet wet I suppose Seshata (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2014 (UTC)Seshata

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 * Fixed.--Hyphantes (talk) 09:52, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

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Fixed.--Hyphantes (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

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Lachares
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 * Resolved, it is public domain.--Hyphantes (talk) 16:04, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Leophron
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 * All fixed except Hybla which should stay on disambiguation page since the exact location cannot be established.--Hyphantes (talk) 13:20, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Atheletic stubs
Hi Hyphantes, just thought it might be a good idea if you put a template on the many biographical pages you are currently creating, as you make them. may be an appropriate stub template, or a more specific one might found at Category:Greek sportspeople stubs, but I'm not expert in this area. There doesn't seem to be a bio stub template for Greek runners. Regards, 220  of  Borg 00:35, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

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Done.--Hyphantes (talk) 09:46, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

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Done--Hyphantes (talk) 09:57, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Pantacles of Athens for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Pantacles of Athens is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Pantacles of Athens until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Pishcal — ♣ 17:06, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

It is easy to understand you thought I was kidding when you saw that I created 40 articles in 24 hours. I understand why he came to that conclusion and don't blame you for that, but your error was that you didn't contact me to ask an explanation. But I was serious on this, because it is part of a larege project that I'm working on for quite a while. Your second error was that you nominated 40 articles all together without giving any criteria that would allow to discern between articles to keep and those to delete. I have asked you such criteria from the first day, but you still haven't given any helpful hint in regard. Unfortuntely you were led to nominate Pantacles of Athens and other articles for deletion, because you ignored a number of facts and I want to list them here. So you didn't know or didn't consider that:
 * ... that Pantacles was the first athlete from Athens to win at Olympia.
 * ... that Pantacles was apparently the first to win two running competitions at the same Olympiad.
 * ... that Pantacles was the first athlete in history to defend his title four years later.
 * ... that many others who have been nominated for deletion have similarly interesting specific situations.
 * ... that every article I created has very specific categories in which it appears.
 * ... that many of these articles are (or will be) linked in specific pages, especially those regarding the provenience of the athletes (like Aegium).
 * ... that many of these articles have already been expanded and will see further expansion in the last week (which makes this procedure either obsolete or makes it even more necessary to define criteria that haven't been given.)
 * ... that all articles are on winners of the stadion race, which means they won the most important competition at their respective Olympiad.
 * ... that their names were used by Greek historians and chronologers to name each Olympiad and define the respective period of four years, as is very clearly explained here: Olympiad.
 * ... that these articles tend to complete a work started about three years ago by User:Francois-Pier with his excellent list on the Olympic winners of the Archaic period.
 * ... that this list (and the three following) was never completed as originally planned, due to the large amount of work it requires and the lack of collaboration, and that my work on the articles nominated for cancellation served to correct errors and fill gaps in Francois-Pier's work.
 * ... that all these articles are part of a large project on which I've been working for weeks and which is by now about 2/3 of completion.
 * ... that all these articles are invoked in a calendar module Module:Year in other calendars which is now online on Wikipedia, although not yet complete, because I'm still working hard on assembling the data. I suggest that you verify the output in pages like 776 BC, 600 BC, 500 BC, 496 BC or 4 BC.
 * ... that there is still a number of red links in that calendar, which means that more articles need to be created.
 * ... that all the names mentioned above are still recorded after 2000 years which means they have stood the test of time.
 * ... that Wikipedia thousands of stubs on modern athletes from all nations, who never even made it to the Olympic games, which have never been nominated for deletion, although their articles give much less information than mine and their names are already forgotten after a decade or two, for example Anthony Ketchum and half of the runners on the table in that page.
 * ... that there is a good reason why these articles are not deleted, because applying such a measure would turn hundreds of tables into a barren red desert.
 * ... that it is quite arrogant from a modern point of view to say that Anthony Ketchum (a.o.) deserves a page on Wikipedia and Pantacles of Athens not, because he is more than 2500 years dead.
 * ... that there are very few contributors on Ancient Greek History active on Wikipedia and that we might need help rather than cancellation requests which will have the only effect to drive people away.

I know that some people enjoy undoing other people's work, but I still hope that you do not belong to this category. I therefore repeat that it would be a kind gesture to reconsider your request at the light of the new information and close the procedure, because that would allow me to get back to my work on the calendar data. Thanks for your attention.--Hyphantes (talk) 14:10, 21 April 2015 (UTC)


 * About the module - you can still link to the articles about the individual athletes from it. If any of them get redirected, the redirect will point to their section in the list article, so anyone clicking on a link from year in other calendars would go straight to that the correct information. And if the redirects get expanded into full articles some time in the future, then the module won't need changing - it would be updated automatically from the redirect being changed. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 15:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I know that. But since it is me who has done the research on the athletes, the list and the individual pages and the programming of the calendar and the data and all the rest, I think that I should have the first say on how I want to proceed. It is no nice manner to threaten cancellation five minutes after a work has been submitted and I'm taking this discussion pretty bad. These guys could have waited until the work was complete, then take the information I collected to create the list to their likings. They could even have their cancellations and redirects after I was gone. That's how Wikipedia works and we have accepted that. But they cannot expect to decide how I have to organize my work and have me do it with the same enthusiasm as before.
 * If it wasn't for this fuss, the missing data on the Olympic winners from 1 AD to 396 AD would already be complete and online. But now it will not be completed, because as long as this stupid discussion goes on I'll stop contributing. Quite the same thing that happened with Francois-Pier's project. In any case I want to thank you for your generous help on the calendar. Good bye.--Hyphantes (talk) 15:49, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Debug console
The debug console is this box:



You can find it at the bottom of module pages in "edit" mode, if you have JavaScript turned on. So, at Module:Ancient Olympiads, look for the box at the bottom, type  into it, press enter, and check the results. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 00:12, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Don't disrupt Wikipedia to make a point
I've undone your nomination of Wallace Spearmon, Sr. and Anthony Ketchum at the AfD debate about Pantacles of Athens. See WP:POINT, first example. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 14:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

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Olympic winners of the Archaic period
Thanks for your contribution on my work. I'm in hospital for months, cannot continue my project yet. --Francois-Pier (talk) 00:58, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear that. I wish you all the best.--Hyphantes (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Sikyonioi reversion
Hello, Hyphantes. You reverted an edit I made that removed euphemistic language because of word repetition proximity. I think a simple re-write could fix either problem. The word repetition proximity is not a big deal compared to euphemistic language, from my perspective. We could use "death bed". fds Talk 05:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * "Died" and "death bed" is almost the same as "dying bed". I don't think that "pass away" is such an awful euphemism. Maybe a few decades ago it was normal use, but if you think it's obsolete we can try to find a more contemporary expression. I refuse to believe that "died" is the only word to address that unpleasant moment. After all we are talking about literature and in that field some metaphor should be allowed, as long as the concept is clear. Last but not least, I took that expression from my source and therefore we should check if the Greek original has it similar which would be a strong argument to keep it that way.--Hyphantes (talk) 14:29, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The reason for my removing it is because the manual of style targets it specifically as a phrase to avoid and prefers some form of "to die" in all constructs. If you could find "passed away" within quoted material, it, of course, would be immune to scrutiny about euphemistic language. I apologize for breaking your talk page's chronology: That was careless of me. fds  Talk 22:31, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. I hope you don't mind if I copy this discussion to the relevant talk page. Maybe someone comes up with a valid solution there.--Hyphantes (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I am behind that idea, Hyphantes. fds  Talk 02:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

AfD: Pantacles of Athens has closed
The Articles for deletion/Pantacles of Athens discussion has closed as a consensus "merge." The closing admin, SamWalton, identified four of the 40 articles for further talk page discussion whether they should be merged to the list or maintained as stand-alone articles: Talk:Dandes of Argos, Talk:Philinus of Cos (athlete), Talk:Oebotas of Dyme and Talk:Eurybus of Athens. Your input is requested on those article talk pages. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Since nobody has thought it necessary to post a count before concluding the deletion request, I'll do it.


 * Keep: 5
 * Merge all: 2
 * Merge, but keep some:7
 * Delete: 0

This means that the original deletion request was rejected. I want to thank everybody for this unanimous vote, because it attests that my contributions were valid.

Actually this appeared quite clear from the start as even the originator of the request, Pishcal, has never cast a vote for deletion. His vote is Merge, but keep some.

Thus remains the question why the deletion request was filed at all. I think that Pishcal  had every right to question the utility of the pages created. He was also right trying to influence the further development of the project. There is an instrument on Wikipedia to do that. It is called Talk page.

However he decided on another instrument without ever contacting me and this gave a number of people, who had never taken any interest in the argument, the power to interfere. What followed has been called a "mess" by Dirtlawyer1 and I would rather agree with his definition.

More precisely, I'd tend to call the procedure an abuse, since it has been wielded to install a kind of preventive democratic control over how users have to submit their contributions to Wikipedia, which is certainly not the purpose of a deletion request.

According to the spirit of the compromise reached and to judge from the messages posted on the single talk pages, it is now in the competence of the admins to decide which articles on ancient athletes are permitted, how many and why. Thus everything has been burocraticized and as a consequence the whole area of research has been transformed into a minefield. So who would ever touch it again?

This approach hasn't worked in the past and it never will. Probably these power plays are also among the motives for the loss of so many valid editors whose enthusiasm must have vanished for a reason. As long as these stupid games have the better, I'm afraid the future looks bleak. Wikipedia can only survive as a free encyclopedia and today we have lost some of that freedom.

After many words, here is the body count of today's battle:

This user has stopped contributing to Wikipedia.

What I leave on the field is a rudimentary list of Olympic winners, thirty-five marginal articles with a merge tag and an incomplete calendar which is currently displayed on 776 pages and should have been expanded to 400 more.

Maybe the users wielding paragraphs and guidelines will take care of the completion of these projects, but from what I've seen I'm not very optimistic. Thanks everybody for watching. Good bye. --Hyphantes (talk) 23:06, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Hyphantes. Though some of the statements above are misrepresentations of Wikipedia processes and I disagree with various points you make, I'll not elaborate on that unless you'd like me to. I do want to say, however, that I hope this is only a short break from editing Wikipedia. The work you did here was great and I know that having all your effort be merged elsewhere is disheartening. Please do consider returning though as the edits you made here were of high quality, it's just a shame that the articles you made were not quite long enough (a generalisation, I know) to stand by themselves. We really do need more editors willing to put work in to this encyclopedia, and you are more than welcome here. Sam Walton (talk) 16:55, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You should have considered that earlier. You probably think it is enough to know a few guidelines and paragraphs to judge a project. Actually when it comes to a trial, that is what judges do, so you're right and everybody who said merge can't be blamed. But not one of them has posted a single comment on my calendar, except maybe Mr. Stradivarius who is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about, because he was involved. The calendar relates the names of 250 winners of the stadion race. Did you really think that I could be forced to defend every single article of such a huge project, because someone found it strange that I created 40 in a row? I don't know about others, but I have a work in real life that leaves me little time to please Wikipedia bureaucrats.--Hyphantes (talk) 22:38, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

"A building site is one man with a shovel and five standing around shouting orders."

- Hyphantes

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Post-AfD edits
Hi Hyphantes. By any chance, are the assorted IPs that have been going round undoing the redirect/merge consensus on Greek athlete's you? It seems weird that it would be anyone else so I just wanted to check. Sam Walton (talk) 11:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

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