User talk:IceWelder/Archive 1

Welcome!
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Problems with upload of File:Devolver Digital Logo.png
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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of the game Noct.jpg
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Style edits on Noct
Hi Lordtobi909,

I noticed your revert on Noct. Video game genres aren't capitalised, not in the video game infobox or in the article body. See WP:MOSCAPS, WP:VG/MOS and Template:Infobox video game. For the creator's acronym, it shouldn't be bold and in italics in the lead. And the title should be in italics, also in the external links section. --Soetermans. T / C 20:55, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Titan Souls Logo Transparent.png
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A Fistful of Gun
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About your edits...
Hi Lordtobi909,

As a frequent editor of video game articles myself, I've noticed your work. I'm convinced that you want to help out, but I have to ask you to slow down a bit and take a glance at the guidelines, and maybe those on video games especially. Earlier I wrote you a message about unnecessary capital letters. I've noticed you removed that message, which is fine, but you also made an unnecessary piped link like this: LUFTRAUSERS. The all-caps style isn't used in other Wikipedia articles either.

I also noticed you've created the article on A Fistful of Gun. Right now, it has a couple of tags right up there that it might be a violation of copyright and an advert-like article. I Googled the game, to see if has any notibility and I found that Destructoid, Rock, Paper, Shotgun and PC Gamer reported on it. Sources like that are what articles are based upon. In the infobox, you again unnecessarily capitalised words like multiplayer and the genre.

Thanks for your contributions and hopefully this will be the last of my feedback messages. If you need any help, you can always ask me or drop by the video games WikiProject. Thanks, and happy editing. --Soetermans. T / C 14:18, 4 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I've just edited the two articles I've mentioned before, and you've edited both since my message, but you didn't care to change the capital letters bit. You're not obliged to answer, but communicating would be the civil thing to do. --Soetermans. T / C 23:15, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

April 2015
Hello, I'm Wtwilson3. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Gun. without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. ''Articles should never be blanked. If you plan to re-purpose the page there is a process.'' —&#160;&#160; &#160;&#160;Bill W.&#160;&#160;  &#160;&#160; (Talk)&#160;&#160;(Contrib)&#160;&#160; (User:Wtwilson3) &#160;&#160;— 13:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Titan Souls Logo Transparent.png
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Lordtobi909, it looks very much like you are the operator of both accounts. Please explain. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 12:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The account "Yoloswagman1" was handeled by my brother, he told me after I saw that our IP was banned. We are sharing one PC in our family, that's why the IP's are identical.Lordtobi909 (talk) 13:06, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ronin (video game)


The article Ronin (video game) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline and the more detailed Notability (video games) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back. Thank you,

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:50, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't seem to understand why the article does not cover enough sources or external links, since it has nine sources, of which some are published ones e.g. tweets or blog posts. You might need to have published sources and commentary, of which both cannot be many available yet, as the games has not yet been release but is going to be in just one day (May 27) into Steam Early Access. From that point on, ratings, mentionings, etc. from different gaming magazines will go into the article.
 * Until such links exist, the article should not exist in the mainspace. Please move it to your userspace as draft, and restore only when proper reviews meeting Notability (video games) are present. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:56, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Ronin (video game) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ronin (video game) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ronin (video game) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:59, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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Replaceable fair use File:Broforce Logo.png
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 * The image's free-use alternative is both outdated and not free-use. I uploaded the new version of the file after being notified by the game's developer. I am therefore requesting the removal of the deletion proposal on the non-free image and the addition of to-delete tag on the free-use image. Lordtobi909 (talk) 21:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Did you read its license? The free use alternative is indeed free use. It has been licensed by the developer as free use and confirmed as such by OTRS. Wikipedia does not upload fair use images when a suitable free use alternative is available. That's NFCC#1. There is no valid rationale for deleting the Commons image. – czar   15:23, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Mother Russia Bleeds (August 10)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Mother Russia Bleeds has been accepted
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Hatoful Boyfriend
I'm not sure I follow your reason for reverting my edit to Hatoful Boyfriend. An INT release is, at least as per the Wikipedia page itself a re-localization, while the date listed is simply for the first English release of the game which wouldn't qualify as such. Malincia (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * As you mentioned yourself, an INT version is "[...] an international version is a relocalized version of a previously released title in its native territory[,] [...] it is quite popular in Japanese games" (cited from International version). Though, it does qualify as such: It was originally released in Japan and in Japanese only. It was later relocalized into English for an international release.
 * Another reason is that worldwide versions apply on the same games released worldwide on the same day (e.g. digitally through Steam or GOG.com), neither of which is the case as the original game did not feature the ability to switch to English, and the international version released 4 months after (which might have been the localization process). Lordtobi909 (talk) 20:41, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In the quote it states that "...an international version is a relocalized version of a previously released title in its native territory". The February 15 release then can't be see as an international version as it was simply the initial English release of the game. For it to have been an INT release it would've had to have been a second Japanese release following on from that English release. Malincia (talk) 21:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The quote you quoted exactly states that the title was previously released in it's native territory (Japan), which is definitely the case. It does not have to have a second native release, which is in most cases non-sense. You might have gotten the quote wrong. Lordtobi909 (talk) 05:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The whole point of an international release is that it is a second native release, that's what it outright says on the article. I think you should actually look at some of the examples given on the page as you don't seem to understand what it's meant to be.
 * For instance take Final Fantasy XII. The original, Japanese release was 2009-12-17. The English release was 2010-03-09. The international version was a Japanese only release on the Xbox 360 on 2010-12-06 which included a few minor changes like an easy mode.
 * Alternatively take Final Fantasy XII. The original, Japanese release was 2006-03-16. The English release was 2006-10-31. The international version was a Japanese only release (much to many people's great annoyance) on 2007-08-09 which included a whole bunch of changes.
 * Then take Hatoful Boyfriend. The original, Japanese release of the game was 2011-10-30. The English release was 2012-02-15. And that was it (until the remake). There wasn't another, proper Japanese release of the game. There was only the original release, and the English release. It doesn't qualify as an international release. Malincia (talk) 12:58, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Is see your point, though you simply undid all my changes. I have recovered what I did lately, though now used WW= instead. Sorry for the confusion. Lordtobi909 (talk) 13:01, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

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Reference errors on 10 September
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Reference errors on 20 October
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For Flowey's name
It's a pretty lightweight claim. All I need is a picture of the credits, and that video was it. Do you have a picture of the credits? I don't have any more. --Kiyoshiendo (talk) 22:40, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello Kiyoshiendo, I appreciate the efforts you do for the Undertale article. For the "Photoshop Flowey" name, it does not actually need a claim, else, every name would have to have one. You reverted the one person's edit, claiming that Omega Flowey is a fan-made name. As I am still progressing in the game, I will see if it is verifiable and eventually take some screenshots. Lordtobi (talk) 22:46, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * As well as your category changes, Hatoful Boyfriend is classified as horror, and that certainly isn't it's core. Perhaps you can look at some of the categorised games and see which ones fit? Thank you. --Kiyoshiendo (talk) 23:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I remember an older revision of the page. I suppose the policy changes, doesn't it? --Kiyoshiendo (talk) 23:02, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why Hatoful Boyfriend is tagged as horror, it also was tagged as psycological horror, that was removed, though. As of now, I cannot see any sign of horror. As I dig deeper, I might find some, though it is certainly not "basically horror", thus the category should not apply. Lordtobi (talk) 23:05, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * In addition, when would be a good time to reassess Undertale? I think after we add pictures of the overworld and combat, and shorten the plot section. I would also like a soundtrack section, though would that be necessary? --Kiyoshiendo (talk) 23:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The soundtrack section under development is enough as of now, since a seperate section would not feature lots of different details. I am not sure about the plot section, though it is growing through your work. Maybe final spoilers should be cut, as Wikipedia suggtest Plot summaries and not full write-downs. Lordtobi (talk) 23:11, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

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Dontnod
You can see here a credible source calling out what is in fact a case of churnalism gone far too out of proportion. Any further revisions will be seen as disruptive. Glitchygirl (talk) 21:10, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 13 November
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Horses, not kings
Regarding my edit that you reverted, and that I've un-reverted at Octodad: Dadliest Catch: the proper spelling of the expression is "free rein", not "free reign". It comes from a time when horses were a common mode of transportation, and giving one's horse a free rein meant exercising minimal control over it (as opposed to keeping it on a tight rein). See Oxford Dictionaries or Grammarist on the matter. The spelling "reign" is not uncommon, but it's generally regarded as a sign that the writer's English skills are not what they might be; so it's something that Wikipedia should avoid. — Ammodramus (talk) 00:25, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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Reverting
What gives? These are two indie games with incredibly similar premises. All you said was that it was "unnecessary"—sure, I don't think a See also is ever necessary. But how does its removal serve our readers? --BDD (talk) 19:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

December 2015
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"Unnecessary refs" in infobox
Tell me something: If clarification of the GTA: San Andreas release dates for X360 and PS3 is "unnecessary" then how do readers understand what the two separate release dates refer to from the infobox? —Dell9300 (talk) 15:00, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Per Template:Infobox video game (and others), refs should be avoided in all of the infobox, and efns in the relseases section, while, however, efns are not that critical. Either way, the infobox is there to serve "quick facts", while it is all explained in the article body. Lordtobi (talk) 15:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, however that doesn't really resolve my issue: The way the dates are now makes it seem like the PS3 version was released in the US on 11 December 2012, Europe on 12 December 2012, then the rest of the world three years later on 1 December 2015. So my point is: it's not clear and thus not a quick fact at all because the reader is perhaps not getting the facts straight. Is there any other way we can show that the first dates are for the PS2 Classic emulated on PS3 while the final date is for the actual PS3 release? —Dell9300 (talk) 15:14, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I would not call it an issue that people "think" that those outside NA/EU received the game for PS3 3 years after, since it is correct. If you'd still like to have it put there, I'd suggest a small tag, e.g. (PS2 Classic), which would be "short and crisp", as we like to it say in Germany. Lordtobi (talk) 15:19, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay I have decided to put "HD" in a small tag beside the re-release dates to differentiate them, which I hope you agree with. I found putting "PS2 Classic" / "Xbox Original" to be too cluttered considering four dates would have 'needed' that tag as apposed to "HD" with just two. Thank you; I'm pleased we could come to a compromise. —Dell9300 (talk) 15:38, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'm happy that I could help you. Lordtobi (talk) 15:42, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Template problem
It would be nice if you could comment here. 80.132.94.160 (talk) 03:37, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Again
It turns out the collapsed release dates title is not meant to be bold after all. See here: Template:Infobox video game. I wasn't 100% sure so I checked to find out. Just thought you should know. —Dell9300 (talk) 17:45, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, I edited it out from all GTA titles. Lordtobi (talk) 17:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

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Bullet hell
Hi, I was wondering why you reverted this edit. Do you know what a bullet hell game is? --SubSeven (talk) 02:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * A bullet hell shooter generally defines a game that features bullets coming from all directions and "filling" the screen with bullets. In Undertale, the combat system most likely works like a bullet hell, as projectiles do come from all directions, however this is in a little square instead of the full screen. If you intend to change it, it would not be a shoot 'em up, as shmups often tend to describe a game with enemies coming from all directions that you have to shoot yourself. In Undertale, however, you are just dodging them. If you are not fine with the term "bullet hell" for the screenshots description, please try to find something arguably fitting it more than that and not less. Lordtobi (talk) 14:38, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I guess that's where the misunderstanding is. You absolutely shoot enemies in bullet hell games too.  The things that differentiate a bullet hell from a regular shoot 'em up are basically two things: 1) the screen literally fills with hundreds/thousands of slow-moving bullets, and 2) the hitbox of your ship is much smaller than the ship itself.  As neither of those apply to Undertale, I don't see how it's anything but deceptive to use that term. --SubSeven (talk) 20:58, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * None of the two statements are mentioned on the Wikipedia article, thus I can only work with what I am presented with. Feel free to add these aspects to the Bullet hell section. Regarding the issue, shoot 'em up generally would not help, as you suggest with your edit, thus I would say, if none comes up with a better one, it should be removed as a statement in its entirety. Lordtobi (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know, I totally disagree. I think a shoot-em-up is a perfect descriptor of the combat in Undertale, bullet hell less so.  It's like calling Super Mario Bros a 3D platformer instead of calling it a platformer.  Not quite that extreme, but the same idea.  Maybe we can ask others' opinions.   Fair enough on the bullet hell article, I will try and find sources to improve it. --SubSeven (talk) 07:27, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Best way to pick a genre is to cite reliable sources (try the video game reliable sources custom Google search) that call it a specific name (i.e., several sources describe the minigame as "bullet hell", but it doesn't mean that's the game's overall genre) czar  14:42, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It was not described as being the game's overall genre. It is in discussion as a reference on the game's screenshot displaying the combat described as "bullet hell". The sources stated above indeed say bullet hell, so what is your opinion on the topic? Lordtobi (talk) 14:46, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I see more sources comparing the minigame to "bullet hell" than to "shoot 'em up", but the way to do it is to use a specific phrase and immediate cite the sources that confirm it afterwards. "Bullet hell" should be specific enough to not need "shoot 'em up" next to it. czar  15:03, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Bullet hell' is simply incorrect, though you've indeed posted several sources that use it to describe Undertale, so unfortunately it seems this is a more common misconception than I realized. --SubSeven (talk) 21:15, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Font size
It does not matter how the fontsize is reduced; it only matters that it is reduced below legible size. The bottom line is: do not reduce fontzise in any way inside navboxes. 16:31, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Neither WP:INFOBOX, nor WP:FONTSIZE ever mentiones that font size reducers should not be used in infoboxes. It is generally done anywhere else, and is not below legible size, since it can be read clearly. Before undoing the template addition commentaryless, you should make sure to provide a guidline that states just that. Lordtobi (talk) 16:35, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It clearly states not to use smaller fontsizes in places where the fontsize is already reduced "like infoboxes". Also note that what may look adequate on your screen is not always the same on other peoples screen or skins; in Monobook, the fontsize drops to 9px, which is barely readable.  16:41, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

About your comment in the edit history in the Undertale page
Greetings, no, I did not read the discussion page. Anyway you can get in touch with me in my discussion page if you want to highlight that my edits may be biased. Regards Jacobubus (talk) 19:46, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The topic about "tobyfox" as developer/publisher had been at opic since article creation and has been largely discussed on the talk page. What you should note is, that if something looks/feels weird but does not seem to be vandalism, you should check the edit history for identical/similar edits and the reasons they were reverted, or the talk page for eventual discussions regarding it. It has since aalso been written into the talk page's FAQ to clarify it even further. Lordtobi (talk) 19:55, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

I do not care about the edit. I cannot answer the question "Ever tried reading the talk page?" in the chronology page of the Undertale article, I believe that question cannot be a motivation for an edit and I ask you to talk to me in a discussion page, please. Jacobubus (talk) 20:06, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Primary sources & Twitter sources
In the very first revert of you adding a Twitter source, I replied with WP:PRIMARY. What does WP:PRIMARY say? That unreliable sources should not be used. It also states that they may be used if they are in-pair with another, reliable source. Following with me deleting the other non-notable sources to be found. After it was practically done, you started reverting my edits, thus starting and edit war. I gave you a collection of three reasons why not to revert my edit, however, I was presented with yet another revert, which shows me that you have not read linked pages, else you would have turned to my (or the article's) talk page to discuss just that. On top, you are trying to accuse me of having started the edit war, but if you read WP:PRIMARY and WP:TWITTER, you can see that if both policies collide, referencing them is impossible. Looking at your talk page, you seem to have been involved in multiple edit wars already and thus I'd gladly tell you to stop and accept that Wikipedia is not what every individual wants it to be. P.S.: As I was writing, AdrianGamer has again deleted some of the Twitter sources, leaving out those stating the new concurrent player record. I will closely inspect those sources, but if they are not outstated by a secondary & reliable source, they will have to be reverted as well. Please restrain from undoing either my or AdrianGamer's changes. Lordtobi (talk) 16:22, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The edit war started when I got the notification that you reverted the tweet that I added onto the article so yes, you were the one who started it. There's nothing on WP:PRIMARY to suggest that Twitter is not a reliable source. I also read WP:TWITTER and gathered that there was nothing about the sources on the Rocket League page that made them not notable or verifiable. I have been notified of edit wars in the past, but I know when to stop, and that's now. AdrianGamer removed some but not all of the Twitter sources on that page unlike you, so I have no quarrel with it. He also said that they can be used for straightforward information, which I agree with. Osh33m (talk) 16:29, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It is not recommended to use primary sources, especially when they can be replaced by secondary sources. However, if the source is only used to support fact (like the part about concurrent user), it is absolutely fine to use them. They do not need to be removed, unless they are not neutral, or there are better replacements. AdrianGamer (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit wars are considered to be started by those who blindly reverts someone's reasonable revert without trying to discuss, not by reverting someone's edit that might be against or unrecommended by guidelines. Other than that, AdrianGamer is completely right in what he is saying. Furthermore, if someone sticks you a message, try to answer below it instead of somewhere else to keep it all in one place. Lordtobi (talk) 16:56, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Well I didn't blindly revert your edit as I saw what you wrote about it in the revision history. You were removing all of the sources, AdrianGamer wasn't. The page should be left the way it is. Osh33m (talk) 17:17, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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