User talk:Jmabel/Archive 59

DYK
Thank you for your contributions! - Mailer Diablo 12:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Attempted killing of Wayback functionality
Some editors are trying to kill off this template Notifying you because you helped add it.
 * Wikipedia talk:Dead external links
 * Wikipedia talk:External links

DG and a few other exclusionists/deletionists have basically taken over WP:EL for months now (they just wear out anyone who tries to discuss things with them). We could really use some Wikipedians with more common-sense over there..... frustrated (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think this is incredibly foolish. I've responded at Wikipedia talk:Dead external links. Feel free to copy or link my remarks wherever that might be useful. It's really hard for me to imagine a more wrong-headed proposal. - Jmabel | Talk 04:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * At the 2nd thread, they already decided to remove the language, and did so. (Only the change at WP:DEADLINK was reverted.) DG has already replied to you in his usual way (he has multiple rfcs and an arbcom, all about civility, but he treads the line enough to not get blocked). (Being that I'm a sock account, I'll leave it up to you to copy your comments wherever needed. (See my contribs for the other 4 places I notified.) I'm trying to keep my real account away from his nastiness... but I do watchlist everything). Sincerely, frustrated (talk) 00:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Westward and whatnot
Hey, yeah, I've been afraid of that happening as I re-table the lists. The only thing I could think of to try to keep it from happening is to count the number of listings in the old list and compare the number to the new list, that's what I've been doing as I've done the newer list tables. sorry for the screwup!!! Murderbike (talk) 00:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Korean vegetarian cuisine
Hello, could you kindly weigh in at Korean vegetarian cuisine, where an editor insisted this evening on the removal of the photo you took at the Seattle Korean festival of a dish made of ginkgo and ginseng, which s/he stated is not really vegetarian? It would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Badagnani (talk) 04:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Village Pump Comment
re this brief essay, you mention an 'executive summary'. if you elaborate as to what you are attempting to get, i may be able to provide it, not sure.-- self-ref (nagasiva yronwode) (talk) 19:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 200 words or less, summing up the general point being made. Like a good, tight lead in an article. - Jmabel | Talk 21:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * see if this works for you:


 * The current policies and atmosphere in Wikipedia are not conducive to fostering coverage of esoteric subjects in any depth. Instead, it facilitates effacement of substantative articles by those opposed to such coverage, and those whose interests extend to esoteric topics that want to work within a wiki are making their own wikis rather than attempt to negotiate for their existence and contributions. Predictably, the result will be an array of wikis focussed and covering a variety of topics, leaving for some future 'meta-wiki' the kind of edited inclusion which should be the ideal and aim of Wikipedia.


 * how's that? if you like it, do you think it should be prepended as a 'Summary' or something? thanks.-- self-ref (nagasiva yronwode) (talk) 01:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If something is actually "esoteric," doesn't that pretty much preclude anyone with inside knowledge writing about it in an encyclopedia, in a citable manner? Conversely, certainly there is nothing to stop those people from publishing elsewhere, either in a wiki or in any other form. - Jmabel | Talk 02:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * re 'esoteric' -- see the Wikipedia org page which linked from that originally essay. 'small' or 'inner' as regards the terminological portion 'eso' is relative. some esoteric subjects are very well-sourced, even by unaffiliated individuals, academics, and are broadly covered by a variety of quality interests, pro and con. there is nothing consistently which makes esotericism secret, though some of it may be so. citation is strictly possible, but it will depend on interest in keeping supportable data in Wikipedia by those who aren't exercizing hostile cite tagging, hostile category/page tagging and the Weapon of Effacement to eradicate to stubs what they oppose, ideologically (there is already wiki-university interest in this matter, and i suspect that some portion of this message is getting through the hostile editors mentioned.


 * re elsewhere publishing -- very obviously so, but it is NOT in the interest of Wikipedia to see substance-contributors flee there based on hostile editing, and it is not to the public's best interest to see Wikipedia, which is given heavy weight by Google, show up above it with less substance and depth than third-party interests. we're not talking about function here but the application toward and against principles.

the substance of our discussion here is sufficiently pertinent that i am reproducing some portion of it, with additions, at the base of the Village Pump article posterior to your call for the executive summary, now that i am fairly convinced you are getting what you are looking for and are asking realistic questions in pursuit of clarification. thank you.-- self-ref (nagasiva yronwode) (talk) 19:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Template:African American ethnicity
Hello. You expressed an interest in the pictures in the photo montage in Template:African American ethnicity that appears in the article African American.

I'd like to settle on some new pictures in the montage, and I'd appreciate your opinion. Please join the discussion at Template talk:African American ethnicity.

Thank you. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 03:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

El Lissitzky at WP:FAR
El Lissitzky has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Prg.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Prg.png. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 23:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I just took it from the French Wikipedia. If their rationale wasn't adequate, c'est la vie. - Jmabel | Talk 00:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Double Seattle FA stuff
If you've the inclination... I'm working on this right now, and should be done I think today or tomorrow on my end. Then:


 * Beecher's Handmade Cheese - needs copyediting, I need to redo the lead, and it can probably use a tiny bit more meat on the non-manufacturing sections, but I think I may be running out of sources that aren't pay to view.
 * User:Rootology/Pike Place Market - identical to the live section, aside from the Steinbruck Park image and the reformatting of the history layout.

As far as I'm concerned, as I'm in the Wikiproject, dead quiet as it is aside from us, the project should get credit too. Want to into the PPM one together? I'm itching to do the history section--the Soul of the City book I added on the live page is fantastically rich and detailed. I'm almost thinking I could do 3,000 words on just the history section just off of that alone! The Beecher's could be ready for an FA run (it's been peer reviewed) in a week or two tops. The market page... needs work, probably 200+ edits total for how big I'm thinking it could be. The subject is so rich and absurdly heavy with sources all over it could be as long as Seattle. I'm just thinking building it in user space (at least the history section) and then bringing it live will be better, since we're taking the car apart first. rootology ( C )( T ) 02:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Why are you working on the PPM in a separate page instead of in the article itself?


 * Yes, I'd be glad to help, but I'm pretty busy these days. I am sure I'll put some time into it, but not what I might be able to do some other time. - Jmabel | Talk 02:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks... mainly for now I was thinking of doing it in the sub page, rather than tearing apart the live version with all the new empty sections, until they're populated with new material. What Giano is doing with User:Giano/The Winter Palace vs Winter Palace gave me the idea. Once the sandbox is built up with all the new sections, those changed bits would just get moved over and we could pick it up on the live copy here. It's mainly so the live one doesn't look like a garage for a while. rootology ( C )( T ) 03:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Samuel Hyde House and consulate
Regarding the house it seems like it is the residence for the consul general and not the consulate offices themselves. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. But is it only a residence? - Jmabel | Talk 00:52, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.mid.ru/zu_r.nsf/e0f3cd1a55ff248dc32571e7003f460b/2b851cbd6dc0ccafc32565e8003604f4?OpenDocument - this says that the consulate offices are at "2323 Westin Building, 2001 6th Avenue, Seattle, WA., 98121, USA" - that doesn't match the Hyde Building. This website http://www.netconsul.org/consularoffices/ mentions the same address. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I know they have offices downtown in the Westin Building (I work nearby, often eat lunch there, and saw lots of protestors during the recent conflict in Georgia). But my question is whether they the Samuel Hyde House is just a residence, or also houses other functions. From the comings and goings I've seen there, it looked to me like it was being used for a lot more than a residence. But of course that is not citable. - Jmabel | Talk 01:01, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Obama and Ayers, I think you'll find this interesting
Top of the front page, The New York Times, October 4: Obama and '60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths by Scott Shane. -- Noroton (talk) 14:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say the key phrase is "conservative critics who accuse Mr. Obama of a stealth radical agenda". If we were to cite any of this, that phrase should certainly be included verbatim. - Jmabel | Talk 17:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Thelma Dewitty
Keep up the good work! Bob (QaBob) 21:54, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

PPM edits
Hold off a sec--getting that merged for us! rootology ( C )( T ) 22:43, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, look at the PPM main article history now. :) rootology ( C )( T ) 22:50, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good. - Jmabel | Talk 02:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

name name for Image:Leopard.jpg
I have reuploaded Image:Leopard.jpg as Image:The Leopard Signet 1960s.jpg to avoid conflicts with an image on the Commons with the same name and another editor's upload of a photo of a Leopard tank. -- Eastmain (talk) 20:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine with me. Thanks for letting me know. - Jmabel | Talk 22:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Abraham Goldfaden
I found two posters for Goldfaden's plays: Image:Goldfaden - a zecea porunca.jpg and Image:Goldfaden - poster.jpg. I'm not sure where to include in the article and how to label them (one of them is completely in Yiddish). bogdan (talk) 23:03, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I put A Zecea Poruncă to good use; I don't read Yiddish, either, but I'll track down someone who does. - Jmabel | Talk 03:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I...ummm...read Yiddish without actually understanding much (being fourth generation American and having made little progress at studying the language), but I use good dictionaries and have almost daily contact with native speakers at my workplace. Being tremendously fond of Yiddish culture, I'd be glad to help out here and there, at least with captions and titles if not full-length texts. For example, in this poster (whose letters I can't make out clearly even upon enlarging), the texts on either side of the two illustrated figures are in Hebrew, while the verses and the two names (the lower is the artist V. [? or W.] Helmanescu) are indeed in Yiddish. With a clearer enlargement, I can provide a complete translation. Get back to me on this? -- Deborahjay (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Allied Arts of Seattle

 * Arrived on my talkpage by mistake, it seems... :) — 97198 (talk) 05:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Stuff
Hey, thanks for cleaning up that article. Btw, whenever you encounter something out of place in my contributions (I'm painfully aware that my English has its many flaws...), please go ahead and work them into shape if you feel like it.

What I wanted to talk to you about was the Vilna Troupe article, which I know you took an interest in and edited a while back (quite a while back, in fact). I've come across a brilliant and quite recent source with significant details on its Bucharest period: Paul Cernat's ''Avangarda românească şi complexul periferiei. Primul val''. They partly confirm what's already in there, but also look into it more thoroughly and contradict or at least nuance some data. I wanted to fit them in, but I found it very difficult: the sources are cited rather chaotically exactly were my details would go in, and one source at least appears to be unreliable (a mailing list, if I remember correctly - I think it was added after your edits). In particular, the comment you added within the reference (This is the primary source for the Bucharest material, and the source of the quotation from Integral nr. 6-7/1925 that begins "The wandering troupe...".) is awkward, because I can't really work around it. I also notice that some of the sources could be cited for more relevant info that is currently left out. (Btw, the article could use with some MOS copyedits, but I can deal with that myself.)

I'm not rushing on editing it right now (I may not do so for a while now), but I would welcome any input on how I should approach this when I eventually do. You could perhaps consider detailing the references you used, if it's still possible, by adding notes to the end of each sentence, with a more exact citation. That way, I could compare the sources ("both x and y say"; "x says, but y..." etc). It's weird, because I can tell that the reference(s) you used would also provide more relevant detail, and stuff that is not found in my source - so I would not leave them out entirely. I really think we can move the article forward together, but it would require some rethinking.

Many thanks, Dahn (talk) 01:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This is going to be tough, because I no longer have access to the Bercovici book (borrowed it through interlibrary loan from the University of Chicago). I'll try to look some time soon, but I'm busy both at work & on other projects, so no firm promises. - Jmabel | Talk 01:24, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem: whenever you have the time. Dahn (talk) 01:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Took a shot at what I could do without the book in hand. Take a look, tell me if it's OK. - Jmabel | Talk 22:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks very good - I allowed myself some minor edits for now. I'm gonna finish editing another article and focus on adding there. I took another look over Cernat, just to see how it all fits there, and, yes, I think I can squeeze him in now. There may be some problems with consistency that I see right now: I presume Bercovici gives more detail than what he is cited with; this may or may not clash with what Cernat says, but, in any case, citing Cernat would add a layer of depth that may probably be found in Bercovici. For example, Cernat speaks about the trope being financed by Al. I. Zissu, the well-known Zionist leader (and, for a while, Arghezi's father-in-law). He also points out that there was an actual connection between Integral and the troupe: both M H Maxy and Ion Călugăru worked for the theater, and were in fact instrumental for reviving it. Presumably, these details, or at least this kind of details, can also be found in Bercovici. If so, it would be great if you could also source them from there. But, again, I'm not rushing you to do so - the article even as it is now is very close to GA standards, and this is all your work. Dahn (talk) 15:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Bercovici mentioned there being an actual connection to Integral. Also, he was very focused on the Romanian years: it was, after all, a section in a book about Yiddish theater in Romania. We're very short on material about the founding. Also, I gather there was a later revival of the troupe, which we don't cover yet.

What's there is good, but there is a ton more that could be written. I'm sure Luba Kadison's memoir would be very worth reading, but I haven't had the chance. Too many other projects. - Jmabel | Talk 18:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I see. Also, I'm fine with this, at least for now - I feel that it would be best for names and citations to be integrated in the text, and then the final list would only work as a "here's all of them in one place".
 * Which gets me to another point. Before I begin adding from the source, I notice that Cernat himself starts off by mentioning a list of names, all of them transcribed into Romanian, but inconsistently so. All of them appear to be mentioned in the article (at a quick glance). However, aside from the transcription changes, there appear to be differences in how the names are read in some cases. Firstly: am I to understand that the Bercovici citation for the sentence immediately after is also the reference for the entire paragraph? If so, can I add it to the other phrase in case it should prove necessary? Secondly: how should I record the differences between Cernat and Bercovici? Should I cite both variants for those names that differ? Thirdly: was the spelling the one used in Bercovici, or was it also adapted into something Romanian-sounding? I can imagine one could verfy exactly who these people were and how they spelled their own names (googling all possible variants, I imagine), but that seems pretty tedious and I'm not sure I have enough familiarity with the subject to be entrusted with this. And ultimately: in this process of verification, it would be good if a criterion is applied between plain text and redlink (non-notable vs. notable) - and, as I said, I don't feel I'm in a position to assess that (the article does, but I'm not sure if that's meant to be definitive - the decision may be worth reassessing for all I know).
 * Without further ado, here's the list in Cernat (p.275): "Iosif Bolov, Iacob Weisliz, Hana Braz, Liuba Kadison, Beniamin Ehren-Krantz, Alexandr Stein, Judith Lares, Hana Mogel, Miriam Orleska, Haim Brakasch, Iosif Kalmen, Samuel Scaftel, Helene Gottlieb, Aizic Samberg."
 * It's these practical problems that leave me clueless, and I would welcome any input as I encounter them. But really, I don't want to seem like I'm imposing this on you. Whenever you have the time and feel like dedicating it to this article. You don't even have to answer to this post until such a moment - just drop me a note on my page if there is going to be such a delay (I almost failed to notice one of your past posts because it came right before your archiving). And a big thank you for all that you have done already. Dahn (talk) 22:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * At least some of Cernat's spellings are very Romanianized. No Jew outside of Romania (or a Romanian-speaking community) would write "Iosif Bolov". Buloff (as we would spell it in English) is pretty famous, and his acting career extended into my lifetime. Similarly for "Iacob", "Aizic" (our "Jacob" and "Isaac"). A case could be made for, say, the Yiddish "Yacov", but not the Romanianized version.


 * "Liuba" for "Luba" is an interesting choice: I assume it is a transliteration of Russian, turning the "soft mark" ь into an "i". If we were to transliterate that carefully into English, we'd write "L'uba", but since she lived in America most of her life and used "Luba" we shouldn't.


 * I don't think there is anywhere I took spellings from Bercovici if I also had an English-language source available.


 * Any time I provide a single citation at the end of a paragraph, it cites for the whole paragraph. I think this sentence-by-sentence citation for material all from the same source is ugly and provides no additional useful information. - Jmabel | Talk 23:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Your first: I'm certainly not saying that we should go with the Romanian transliteration (and, in Bolov's case, I could figure). The problem I pointed to is more subtle, and does not refer to the standard rendering of Iosif, Iacob etc. I haven't checked out all the names but there are two examples that stand out in the versions: Ehrenkrantz (article) for Ehren-Krantz (Cernat); Kamen (article) for Kalmen (Cernat). That's precisely why I need your input. It would be easier and much more reliable if I wouldn't be trusted to find details on these people starting from the source I have. They're mostly anonymous to me (this whole subject is novel to me), so I would have to start from the "completely blind" level - you presumably already have the insight into who these people were and what the preferred spelling is. And of course, if and when you say those are the English versions, then the differences that show up in Cernat are most likely mistakes. It's important because, mistakes or not, we could another source to the list (recording the differences in the note, or just referring to reader to both - either way, it is valuable).
 * Your second: that's what I figure myself (at least it's how the name is usually rendered in Russian-to-Romanian transcriptions).
 * Your third: good to know. If those are the standard version, then we need look no further in this matter.
 * Your fourth: I was asking because, as per above, I think in the end we could have two citations for the phrase listing actors; I needed to know if the list was already cited, or if the citation was just for the final part. I don't disagree with you on the "ugly" and "no additional useful information" issue (though I tend to use them where they seem to be required, just because in some cases it's hard to tell how they're used, and it makes it hard to add other sources in the same paragraph). Cernat verifies both sentences, I just needed to know if Bercovici does - I can surely add Cernat in the same note or the same place, but, in case Bercovici were the source for just that one phrase, it is only Cernat I would've had to add for the first phrase etc. That kind of complication - harder to explain than to solve. Dahn (talk) 23:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup. Let's do any further discussion (e.g. individual names) on the article talk page instead of here where others can't see it. If I don't get back to you on something within, say, a day, feel free to ping me here to get my attention. - Jmabel | Talk 00:04, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Great. Since I suppose your last post is a confirmation that the names in the article are in the definitive version (and that Cernat's variations, other than sheer "Romanianization", are mistakes), you've clarified everything I needed to know for now. If any other things come up, I'll bring them up on the article talk page. And, again, thank you. Dahn (talk) 00:10, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts? (And please do rework and rephrase anything that catches your eye.) Dahn (talk) 10:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Your first. "Manifestations". Well, it's "manifestări", not "manifestaţii", so it should be the exact equivalent of "manifestations".
 * Your second. Yes, and your variant sounds better. Dahn (talk) 04:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

One more issue: the citation system is still chaotic. We have references that are cited only once under notes, and others that are mentioned only in notes (using the "ref name" format); we have citations were several sources are cited together and separated by ";", and multiple, clearly separate citations for the same fact. Is it okay if I have a go at using one single format? Dahn (talk) 08:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Also: we should consider expanding the lead. Dahn (talk) 08:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Feel free. I wanted to add material, didn't have a bunch of time, just made sure I got my references in rather than worrying too much about formatting. - Jmabel | Talk 15:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

What do admins actually do?
As a user who was reported to ANI by you for two reverts that you didn't like on Bucharest, I start to wonder what is the purposes of admins here on this site when they allow this kind of behavior: Special:Contributions/Azdfg (see the personal attacks in Talk:Romanians), is something like "wicked anti-Romanian hate" or claiming that I'm at fault for anti-Romanians mobs allowed? man with one red shoe 15:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'm the appropriate person of whom you should ask "What do admins actually do?" On our first interaction, I personally decided I didn't like your style, decided I'd rather minimize efforts to work with you, and I handed an issue off to someone else because of that. I suggest you ask someone who is more happy with your style. You'll get a better answer.
 * On the other hand, if that was strictly rhetorical or if you posted to my user talk page only to antagonize me, please have a nice day somewhere else. - Jmabel | Talk 18:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Lord's Day Alliance
Note to self: group that tried to ban theater on Sundays, ran into interesting conflict with Yiddish theater & vaudeville in 1923 in NYC and Freeport, New York. - Jmabel | Talk 07:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pete_Seeger_Clearwater.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Pete_Seeger_Clearwater.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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French Revolution
Hey Jmabel: Sorry in the delay in my response. I was working on the French Rev section, but have recently become much less active. Before I left I only got through the "financial crisis" and "Estates-General" sections. I should be getting more active here in the future.

As you saw, the "unprotect" experiment failed miserably (the page should be protected now; for some reason I have trouble protecting pages--not sure why). I actually thought I had semi-protected it a few weeks ago.

Anyway, I should be getting more active again soon; and would like to improve this page and the Marquis de Lafayette. What happened with the remark from the kid from MIT? Lazulilasher (talk) 01:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you are referring to re: "the remark from the kid from MIT". But do let me know if there is anything specific I can help with, especially in terms either of structural issues or finding a citation for anything that may prove difficult to cite for.. - Jmabel | Talk 04:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Mexican Revolution
I simply reverted to an earlier version, and did not look very closely at other recent edits. I have now removed the information in question. You are correct, it is appropriate for an article on the individual, not the revolution as a whole. Cheers! ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 14:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: User talk:Prell
Thank you very much for the message you left for this fellow. I truly appreciate it. It saved me having to say anything to him, and I was tempted to say something I oughtn't. Cheers! ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 23:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:RD/L commando-at-large
Thanks for your message of appreciation, Joe! Doubly welcome for being unexpected, as I feared my annoyance at the phrasing of the previous remark would result in putting too much edge on my response. (A nasty tendency I must fight in real life, too, and not only about language...) Patrolling several of the Ref Desks (notably Humanities and Miscellaneous) is a task I slip into when lacking the concentration or self-discipline to do "real" work on mainspace pages or interwiki translating, so it's a manifestation of shirking, in a way. Otherwise, it does fulfill a sense of what we're doing here in sharing information and knowledge, and I truly believe what's written there does reach a far wider readership (and hopefully, generates influence) than indicated by the dialogue participants alone. So I'm glad you introduced yourself, as it seems we have some interests in common and perhaps can collaborate productively in the future. Nice to meet you! -- Deborahjay (talk) 22:27, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Borges
Hi Jmabel, I was thinking of putting the Borges article up for GA review as it currently lacks inline citations, the lead is very short and there are a lot of external links. Its tagged with cleanup and citations needed tags. Separately, it could do with some more pictures added, there are a lot on commons. Do you have any thoughts on the matter, please? Tom B (talk) 16:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Feel free. I worked to Wikipedia's standards at the time I wrote it. Those standards have changed, and other people have no doubt at times done the article as much harm as good. If there is something specific someone needs - i.e. if there is something there than no one readily sees how to cite for, and I can be of help - let me know. But I have no interest in going back to the hundreds of articles I wrote before inline citations were encouraged and rewriting them all. I'm not very interested in chasing a moving target. - Jmabel | Talk 19:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

thanks very much, have listed: Talk:Jorge Luis Borges/GA1 Tom B (talk) 18:13, 3 December 2008 (UTC)