User talk:Luo Shanlian

This may be the only article in English on the Net which comes near the truth about the Chinese language
Lower Yangtze Mandarin, also known as Southern Mandarin, was the lingua franca of Chinese administration throughout the Ming and through most of the Qing dynasties. It was not, however, replaced by Beijing Dialect. Rather, it was replaced by Northern Mandarin. Northern Mandarin had been the lingua franca of the Manchu Empire, but had never been spoken in China.

Some sources tell us that Southern Mandarin changed into Northern Mandarin under the influence of Beijing Dialect. That would be impossible, as the phonological bases of these two languages are quite distinct.

Northern Mandarin became the official language of China in 1870 entirely because of insistence by a Manchu-led government, but it took them 200 years of effort.

In 47 years I have heard excellent Northern Mandarin spoken 'live' by a Manchu on one occasion only. Han Chinese refuse to speaks this way, despite its simplicity and extraordinary beauty. (In the 1970s Hong Kong Mandarin films were all dubbed by Manchus, but it seems that nobody took the hint.)

I can only conclude that, since 1644, Han Chinese within the Great Wall have been at war with Northern Mandarin. Everything I read on the Net and elsewhere indicates that this war continues, but there will be no happy ending.

Chinese people are being led to believe that Northern Mandarin came out of Southern Mandarin, so therefore it can be turned "back" into Southern Mandarin. Can you turn a cat "back" into a dog?

These were two distinct languages, existing at the same time. Any attempt to turn Northern Mandarin "back" into Southern Mandarin can only result in fragmentation and destruction of China's lingua franca. Already these attempts have had a catastrophic effect, making Chinese an almost unlearnable sea of extremely ugly idiolects.

Despite the terrible standard of pronunciation heard everywhere in China today, careful study of a chart of Hanyu Pinyin readings clearly indicates the Northern Mandarin which underlies this system of spelling. To those who have studied phonology it is evident that spellings j,q, and x are inventions by Southerners, and cannot possibly represent distinct phonemes. ("No minimal pairs!")

This explains why, for twenty years or more, Beijing-based 国际书店 was spelt Guozi Shudian, and not Guoji Shudian. For those who speak relatively good Mandarin 'j' simply does not exist. In good Northern Mandarin 'x' is pronounced exactly as [s].

I would urge anyone who wishes to study Chinese not to do so. For those who have spent much of their lives on such a project, I would advise them to show zero patience toward Southerners who wish to change Northern Mandarin "back" into a southern Chinese language. It's not their language, and it's absolutely none of their business.

Anyone who takes their ideas seriously is making a lot of trouble for themselves. Would they follow the advice of an ignorant German or Russian on how to speak good French?

China Daily recognises that good Putonghua is spoken only in Luanping. This town lies outside the Great Wall, and all residents are descended from Manchu loyalists of the Yellow Banner.

Please search for "China Daily" and "Luanping".Luo Shanlian (talk) 10:10, 28 May 2020 (UTC)