User talk:Lyndaship

The Bugle: Issue 217, May 2024
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

About Yukikaze's Wiki page
Hello Lyndaship '

I've notice you've made some edits to Yukikaze's Wikipedia page. Since you automatically reverted some changes I in turn made, I'd like to discuss some things I disagree with.

First up, at the very least you could fix a few grammatical errors you made. You forgot to add a space in between "before" and "Yukikaze" during the sentence that discusses her torpedoing USS Laffey, and made a grammar error stating "disengaged from the battle" the sentence after that, writing "and disengaged" or "disengaging" would sound better.

I also disagree with some choices you've made on the information stated in the article. For one, I'd recommend her torpedoing Laffey should be changed to "final blow", or finished off", instead of just stating she sunk Laffey, as it was far from Yukikaze alone that sank Laffey, most notably she had just been hit by a 14-inch (356 mm) shell from Hiei, and insinuating she alone sank Laffey would be false

At the battle of Kolombangara, the article doesn't go into any detail on the extent of damage HMNZS Leander faced, unlike the other damaged/sunk allied warships, just simply stating she was hit. In particular, Leander was damaged so badly, she was not repaired in time to take further part in WW2, making up for the fact that the allied cruisers had just sank the light cruiser Jintsū, the flagship of the battle and the only Japanese warship larger than a destroyer.

I believe the destroyers moored along Yukikaze in the photo of her off Rabaul around the time of the battle of Kolombangara are Hamakaze and Kiyonami, two fellow destroyers from the battle. If you're not going to include that, at least include the month the photo was taken in, July of 1943.

At the battle off Samar, your previous edits removed the fact that Yukikaze saluted the sinking destroyer USS Johnston as a sign of respect for her valiant crew. I don't see the purpose of removing this honorable action taken by Yukikaze and her crew, which shows an insight to the respect many Japanese sailors had for their enemies in stark contrast to captured US pilots being keel hauled aboard Arashi or the massacre of civilians abord Akikaze.

I've already backed up everything I've said with sources in previous edits. If you want to see them again, I'll show you. Good wishes. ￼ Micheal Harrens (talk) 22:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your message.


 * I've corrected my two typos and the dating of the photo. If you spot any more like this please feel free to correct them with a stand alone edit.

On Laffey sources disagree on whose torpedo struck her. The information that she was struck by a shell from Hiei beforehand belongs on Laffeys page not here.

On Leander sources again disagree on when her repairs were completed. It's obvious they were not swiftly progressed. The fact that she managed to sail from NZ to the USA for repairs show that they were not total and belies the no further part in the war.

Yukikazes salute of Johnston was added by an editor (Rocky Fargher) who has a similar style to yourself using youtube videos as a source. Subsequently a couple of books have been used. However I can't verify that these books support the claim and I find the claim very dubious. It comes under extraordinary claims need extraordinary sources.

Looking at your edits frequently the sources do not verify all the statements made in the prose. Please be more careful. Lyndaship (talk) 08:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Well, you make some very good points. I'd still credit Yukikaze for the torpedo hit on Laffey. The discrepancy on who hit her, at least to my knowledge (feel free to prove me wrong) is that historians in the past wrote books on the battle based mostly on American records without necessarily taking Japanese records into account in little details here and there. For example, Eric Hammel in his 1988 book "Guadalcanal : decision at sea : the naval battle of Guadalcanal, November 13-15, 1942" details that Laffey was engaged by both Teruzuki and Asagumo, and hit by a torpedo from either of the two. As it turns out, Asagumo was off operating alongside Murasame and Samidare, the force which sank USS Monssen and engaged USS Helena (as detailed by Combined Fleet and that Laffey and Monssen were sunk at around the same time, a few minutes past 2:00, meaning Asagumo would have to be at two places at once). A similar problem occurred at the battle off Samar, up until 2014 when naval historian Robert Lundgren published his book "The World Wonder'd; What really happened off Samar", which took both Japanese and American records of the battle to detail the most accurate account of the battle.
 * As detailed by author Robert Lundgren on his website Navweaps, Yukikaze, Terizuki, and Amatsukaze operated together (but Amatsukaze broke off from the formation to engage and sink USS Barton, as detailed by her captain Tameichi Hara in his autobiography "Japanese Destroyer Captain"). Combined Fleet, an acclaimed website dedicated to detailing the records of Japanese warships, spearheaded by Jonathan Parshall and assisted by at least nine other naval historians firmly gives Yukikaze credit for the torpedo, and Teruzuki with gunnery hits only on seven vessels (including Laffey).
 * I'll still state Yukikaze probably torpedoed Laffey, just to leave in some doubt. I'd still say you make great points with all other points I brought up. Micheal Harrens (talk) 17:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes I came across similar discrepancies. You are welcome to change the article to what you believe to be correct if the source is deemed a WP:RS and you cite that source. What you must not do is state something and cite it to a source which does not say that. If RS disagree you should mention it in a footnote. I don't think Navweaps is regarded as a RS, Combinedfleet is used in many articles. I don't think they are quite so clear cut about Yukikaze scoring the torpedo hit and Terikazes page does not specify Laffey! Lyndaship (talk) 17:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Lundgren may well be correct, but he can't be considered a reliable source as he has no evidence of publishing anything though peer- or editor-reviewed publications. He published his books himself and Tony diGiuliani of NavWeaps isn't a editor of a peer-reviewed publication.
 * I found published sources that said Teruzuki might have torpedoed Laffey so I added that with a caveat to the article. Remember that WP:V is one of our foundations here, using information from acknowledged experts.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 218, June 2024
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 09:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 219, July 2024
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)