User talk:Sergecross73/Archive 69

Editor seems to believe there's consensus where there isn't
Hi Sergecross, I see you were involved in this RfC about adding years to navigational templates, and commented on Jax 0677's talk page after (User talk:Jax 0677/Archive 19). Jax now seems to believe (per here and here) that there was consensus to add years to navigational templates just because he voted that there should be. He linked me to the discussion on his talk page, where again, no user involved actually agreed, and where he said that he would only add them to templates he made—and as pointed out by Woodensuperman, this sounds like he thinks he has a right to, when that is against WP:OWN. I have reverted him per WP:BRD but I thought maybe you could clarify for Jax? I have tried to in the past but this is not the first time he has come up with his own idiosyncratic guidelines that apply only to how he edits despite there being no formal consensus on the matter.  Ss  112   16:10, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the only real consensus in those discussions was to be following WP:BRD, and that they shouldn’t be mass-adding or mass-removing then. So any time he adds it, and someone challenges it, it should stay out unless a separate consensus arises out of a discussion. Same goes for removing it from ones that already have it., what’s going on here. Finding it hard to believe you forgot this, or don’t understand the situation... Sergecross73   msg me  18:51, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 *  Reply - I am the one who created Bad Bunny. Someone else simply beat me to adding the article for the first studio album, so I then added the year to the album.  Now that I think about it, I guess since someone else added the album, I should leave the year off of it.  My mistake. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Alright, I’m fine with that response. Looks like we’re good then. Sergecross73   msg me  17:19, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Removing my messages on user talk pages
Hey there. Just wanted to know if its alright to remove my own messages on other user's talk pages? Thanks. Namcokid47 (talk) 18:05, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If they haven't been replied to, yes. -- ferret (talk) 18:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yup, this. Usually it’s fine as long as you’re not doing it after it’s been responded to. People are generally considered in control of their own talk page though, so if were talking about Huet, so it’s not totally out of line for him to have restored your comment on his talk page (albeit confusing, as I’m not sure why he’s prefer to keep your relatively ordinary rescinded comment on his talk page.) Sergecross73   msg me  22:58, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for your responses. Yeah, I'm not sure why either - maybe his ego likes knowing I was wrong at one point? I tried removing it again but he later re added it, so I'll likely just let it be. It's not a big deal, really.Namcokid47 (talk) 17:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Check the Elvis singles article.
Hey I was wondering if you could check the Elvis singles article out. It looks confusing because some user decided to split the singles into different sections and he added a B-side section. I ask this because I like reading articles on Wikipedia and it really disturbs me that there is a B-side section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryan1518 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I Apologize for My Corrupted Behavior
i apologize for my actions from corrupted behavior by editing things i was very wrong i'm sorry. all i want is to edit the right corrections sources on concept albums and i just want to know if any albums is a concept album that is right source or wrong source, please just give me a chance.Johnny758 (talk) 14:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It’s very simple. You already know how to add sources, it’s just that your sources don’t say anything about concept albums. You can’t just add Allmusic reviews randomly. The source has to say “(Album) is a concept album”. If you can find a source that says that, you can add it. If the source doesn’t contain the words “concept album”, then don’t add it. If you can’t find a source then don’t add it.
 * If you still don’t understand what I mean, just check the article itself. There are literally hundreds of examples of how to do it. Sergecross73   msg me  14:50, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I Edit the Source
i edit the concept albums on t.i.'s album t.i. vs. t.i.p., it's a concept album and i didn't write the reviews on the editing of list of concept albums source on t.i. vs t.i.p.. is it a right source or wrong source just let me know if it's not good.Johnny758 (talk) 20:11, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, that’s good enough. While I prefer sources that literally use the term “concept album”, the source says things like “album’s concept” enough to see that probably what they’re driving at. Sergecross73   msg me  21:33, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

"Single Album" again
Now we really could use an admin's input at this discussion: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums. Folks are reluctant to declare that a consensus has been reached due to the WP:INVOLVED rule. The consensus seems fairly obvious, and we need someone with authority to back up a change request at the Album Infobox template. Go forth as you see fit, or advise on other options. Thanks. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 20:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I’ll take a look at it tomorrow. Sergecross73   msg me  03:22, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

The Legend of Heroes series undo
Hi, could you please explain why you undid my edits to the page? The information contained in it was (and now is again) very inaccurate regarding the The Legend of Heroes / Trails series:

- The Trails in the Sky trilogy does not "collectively make up the sixth entry in the series". Falcom last used a numeral next to "The Legend of Heroes" when they first released Trails in the Sky (the first game in the trilogy), for Windows PC in 2004. For the PSP re-release in 2006 and every subsequent re-release, they dropped the numeral. The sequels, Trails in the Sky SC and Trails in the Sky the 3rd, never had the "VI" numeral in their name in any release ever. You can check the validity of this in Falcom's website, as well as the game box shots available on www.gamerankings.com.

- Likewise, Zero no Kiseki and Ao no Kiseki never had the "VII" numeral in their names, they simply released with "The Legend of Heroes" prefix, same as all games in the Trails universe. Again, it doesn't make sense to talk about these 2 games as "the seventh entry" in "The Legend of Heroes" series.

- The point of talking about "arcs" is exactly the very nature of the Trails series: all 9 games released so far take place in the same world, they share locations, characters, and an ongoing, overarching plot. The Trails in the Sky and Trails of Cold Steel subseries are 2 story arcs in this universe.

I suggest you first research about these games (Falcom's official Kiseki page and XSEED's Trails page are good starting points), take a more thorough look at my edit, and decide if it doesn't add clarity, accuracy and information to the page.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.50.119.210 (talk) 12:41, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * These were largely not the things I objected. I was against your removal of the “Trails to Azure” names (Yes yes, I don’t need another fan reminding me it’s unofficial. It doesn’t matter. English sources commonly use them, so it’s more helpful than throwing a “n/a” down) and I didn’t think some of your note contributions were helpful. (You changed the note for Second Chapter to “The second chapter in the trilogy.” The title covers that just fine, we don’t need a redundant note like that.) This is why you shouldn’t make so many changes in one edit, to prevent confusion like this. Please split these changes into multiple edits to avoid confusion like this in the future. Thanks. Sergecross73   msg me  13:40, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:15, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Disruptive move?
Hi Sergecross73. I hate to bring something like this back to you, but looks like we have a disruptive move case similar to what Flooded with them hundreds did (back under TheMagnificentist) with those discography redirects I made. Now, one thing I want to make clear is, you know I've had to accept users not wanting to create content over redirects I made. Whatever. But they need to do it the right way. The user MaranoFan has saw fit to move my redirect for Thotiana (which I have just reverted, in a bit of a stuffed-up round-robin move, but the point stands) to Thotiana (song), then create content over their redirect Thotiana. My redirect was not for a different topic (so they were not preserving page history, which would make sense), and they did not create the content in their sandbox or at a draft, a legitimate way of making content where you want credit. Instead, they did it this way, which is what got Flooded with them hundreds reprimanded/page move restricted. As you are an admin I consider experienced in this matter, could you please tell MaranoFan that this is not on and not the way to do it? I accept they, for some reason, want to make an article on a topic I've extensively edited, and that my redirect to tell them that this was a disruptive move will now be deleted—fine (I also did this in part because MaranoFan has told me not to post at their talk page). But this is not the way to do it.  Ss  112   12:04, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've requested it to be moved to the appropriate title at Requested moves/Technical_requests. No need for action against me, I apologize for the out-of-procedure move. Everything is fixed now so I'm unsure why Ss112 is seeking drama here.-- N Ø  12:09, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeking drama, I'm informing an admin who I consider experienced in this matter who (along with several other admins who noticed) previously warned Flooded with them hundreds against this in the past and is the part of the reason they got page-move restricted.  Ss  112   12:12, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * This is the first instance of me making an out of procedure move so the WP:AGF thing to do is to cut me slack instead of trying to get me "warned". This is all unnecessary drama considering your redirect is still going to be deleted and the article will be moved at the end of the day. I had no disruptive intent, so stop.-- N Ø  12:16, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You didn't think doing this wasn't allowed after being on Wikipedia for...how many years now? I'm not going to "stop" and avoid asking for you to be rightly called out for this behaviour. You lost any assumptions of good faith from me a while ago when you kept stalking me, so no.  Ss  112   12:27, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So you create virtually every single article about pop music on wikipedia, update charts on almost every song article, but yet everyone who edits pages related to the same topics is "stalking" you? Makes sense. (sarcasm)-- N Ø  12:32, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Stop playing dumb. Making content related to something you've never edited before right as I was is not coincidence, especially as you've had problems with me for months now. I'm done annoying Sergecross73 with replies now, and so should you be.  Ss  112   12:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * "Making content related to something you've never edited before right as I was is not coincidence" -- Thats your bad faith assumption. Its a very likely coincidence considering this song is making huge moves on Billboard this week. But its not like bad faith is unexpected from you, considering you've already called me "an absolutely ridiculous piece of work" a few months ago.-- N Ø  12:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I already told you you lost all good faith assumptions from me when you stalked me, and personally attacked me several times. I think you've just proven you're still stalking me and keep tabs on previous drama. Holy crap, can't relate. Honestly, some editors appear to have nothing better to do than sit at their computers and watch my every move on an online encyclopedia, create drama with me then point their fingers at me and say I'm creating the drama. I'm actually done here. Sergecross, I am so sorry for all of this, I know you absolutely hate this drama trash.  Ss  112   12:58, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll also apologize to Sergecross for this happening on their talk page. Ss112, you need to stop creating drama. It doesn't matter if you have been here for 2 years or 12, AGF still applies to you so stop throwing around serious words like "stalking". I guess I can claim you "stalked" me to this article too (which, by the way, is about an obscure song that isn't charting anywhere), but I'll refrain because I'm not petty. I'll request you to leave Serge's page alone, though.-- N Ø  13:07, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You link to an article you made (Out of Love) from an article I literally made (The Pains of Growing) then claim I'm stalking you... The lack of self-awareness... I can't.  Ss  112   13:16, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So are you actually gonna leave Sergecross's talk page alone or will you just keep throwing out meaningless apologies for it in the edit summaries but still continuing anyway? Email me if you want to have an actual dispute resolution instead of causing chaos and drama. I'm done here, and apologies to Serge. Please feel free to delete or hat my comments from here if you don't want this on your talk page.-- N Ø  13:20, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've messaged you on your talk.  Ss  112   13:24, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Just noting that Ss112 has undone his reversal of my move, and has also in process deleted the WP:RM discussion I linked above. And I have admitted my mistake and agreed not to repeat it. I would say that no further action is needed with regards to either of us. Once again, apologies for this lengthy discussion being on your TP, .-- N Ø  14:26, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Just for the record (because my name was thrown in multiple times), my past moves of the discography pages can be justified with WP:G6 (that was long before I had even received the page mover right). It was one admin's opinion that there was a form of WP:GAMING (it can be interpreted differently by others), I obviously disagreed with it but I wasn't in a position to argue so accepted it to resolve the dispute. TBH, this shouldn't even be a problem. People should have the right to go to a title and create the page first-hand without having to edit a redirect made by someone seemingly obsessed with page creation stats-boosting. I believe the real WP:GAMING lies with the redundancy of creating redirects for the sake of creating it and causing others who want to create an article themselves to enter an undesired confrontation with the redirect creator. -- Flooded w/ them 100s  12:36, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You were warned by several admins; what the definition of gaming was is not the real issue. I suppose all the editors who create redirects on Wikipedia (just about all of them) are gaming the system by your definition, then...? Nice hot take. You were not creating content by moving discographies, you were moving content created by others and adding onto it. That's not really justifiable by "I made an article for this already" via G6. But sure, annoy Sergecross with 20 more replies justifying your past behaviour that you're still restricted for.  Ss  112   12:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The difference is those other editors don't create redirects for the sake of it, you've clearly shown your obsession with redirects many times through all these disputes, snarky edit summaries and creating tens of thousands of redirects of music-related pages. MaranoFan is right about you creating redirects for every song/album you find, it has become slightly problematic for the editors who want to create articles themselves (1). By technical means, there's no need to actually create the content to make G6 applicable, and I find it rather ironic for you to start a discussion disparagingly about another editor and later try to withdraw from it claiming to not want to cause annoyance. Looks a little disingenuous. --  Flooded w/ them 100s  13:05, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in music and always have been, so there's nothing being created "for the sake of it". But even if I did have an "obsession" with creating redirects, so what? That shouldn't concern you. Editors can make articles for those topics themselves. Nobody's stopping them. There's a whole process to do that. I don't see you criticising all the other editors out there who make plenty of redirects? You keep ignoring that point. You've also made a tonne and still do (and probably will after this). Your actions are still considered disruptive, you can't justify it by offering a new hot take and getting into semantics about what G6 does and doesn't say. I don't think your play will be accepted in the future. I'm just trying not to annoy Sergecross more than I already have. I don't care what you think of me.  Ss  112   13:16, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Meet me at the bar and we'll work this out like real men. --  Flooded w/ them 100s  13:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

I just find it hilarious how big this is and the owner of the talk page hasn't even said anything. I'm not saying that he has to or anything, I'm just expressing both genuine, simultaneous laughter and bewilderment.  danny music editor  oops 18:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry all, it was a crazy busy day over here. Will look through this shortly. Sergecross73  msg me  23:28, 5 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Okay, my conclusions on all this.
 * Ss112 is correct that these sorts of page moves that MaranoFan did one of are not the way to go about doing things.
 * It seems that MaranoFan acknowledges this, and agrees to not do this anymore, so as long as it doesn’t become a pattern, it’s fine. Unless it happens further, I’m fine at leaving it at that. If it happens further, then we’ll need to talk again.
 * Flooded’s claim that Ss112’s high volume of redirect creation is bogus. The redirects are generally plausible search terms and valid. My only objection is the arguments that have ensued with his redirects are legitimately G6’d, but as far as I’ve seen, he’s largely dropped that for quite some time, so there’s no problem there.
 * Flooded’s page moves were strongly and clearly deemed disruptive and not okay, especially with some of the investigating coming to the conclusion that some could not possible be accidental (like the one where he used bizarre obscure characters to create an article at a new location and avoid working off of a redirect.) Regardless of how many times he changes his name, it doesn’t get him out of the fact that he’s at his final warning as far as those shenanigans go. Do no go into that again.
 * I think that covers everything, though let me know if I missed anything. Sergecross73   msg me  00:45, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Regarding a fancruft situation
Hello, Serge. We've got a problem with WP:FANCRUFT and WP:NOT. A few users, including myself, have been removing such fancruft from Power Rangers related articles, but and, both relatively new accounts, have been reverting these edits. Can you please look into this? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I looked into this, but forgot to respond. I agree that you’re in the right here, it’s pretty clearly fancruft. But I couldn’t find anywhere where it was really explained to them, so it’s hard for me to really take much action here. I think they really just need to be informed as the next step. Sergecross73   msg me  15:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've discussed the matter on User talk:Sjones23. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:28, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Page protection for Knack II
Hi. As per my request on WikiProject Video games, you implemented page protection for Knack II on 24 January, to expire 7 February. Please could you extend the protection as it's only been 2 days from it being lifted that more vandalism has occurred. Thanks. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 13:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. For now, I’m going to hold off on further protection - 1 bad edit in 4 days isn’t all that bad. But if a couple more happen, let me know and I’ll re-apply. Thank you. Sergecross73   msg me  21:07, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * As you wish, although I guarantee more will come over the next month or so. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 22:54, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Page protection policy requires us to wait until there's a need, and to keep the protection as short as we can. One edit is not enough for re-protection yet. -- ferret (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yup, exactly this. I don’t doubt you WikiBenBoy - you are probably correct technically, but policy requires me to be reactive, not proactive, so I really need to wait until it gets a little worse. Sergecross73   msg me  23:16, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Video Game Titles Colons, Em-dashes, Tildes, or ...Wait, Nothing? :(
Hey, I wanted to reach out and use your expertise on a few things. I'd also like to hear what others have to say if you want to include them or you want to move this conversation as it may be more appropriate somewhere else. It's long, so read as much as you feel welcome to get the idea.

Predicament: So you're likely going to be pissed at how unnecessary and absolutely trivial this is, but it's driving me crazy and I figured I'd ask: punctuation in video game titles. It's not important in the grand scheme of things and most people could care less, but going through the list of games and seeing them written out, I'm going insane. "Why doesn't that have a colon? Well, whatever. This one too! Wait, now this one has an extra colon!" This hurts me more than it should.

Upon investigating the Wikipedia pages for the games in question, the first one I went to conveniently had a (heated or, let's say, passionate) conversation that you were a part of. Mind you this was five years ago, but I agreed with several editors in how Fire Emblem Awakening should undeniably have a colon after the series title. "I mean come on, every Fire Emblem up to that point had a colon before the subtitle. Why change it up now?" Sigh... I let it go for a whole two minutes until I scroll down and see Mario Tennis Open. "What the.. No, no, this is a cruel joke. Other Mario Tennis games have colon before the subtitles, why not this one? Mario Tennis: Power Tour, Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash, even the newest one! ...Oh. Nope." Mario Tennis Aces does not have a colon. Not on Wikipedia, not on Nintendo's site, not on the game itself...

Conclusion 1: So maybe you've seen a pattern. There are other games this applies to, but it was around this point I caught onto the pattern. Here's my theory: you should not put a colon if the subtitle is one word. "Ahhh... I see. That's... well, marginally better." The OCD part of me wants to have the colon, but I guess that's the English rule. Maybe I missed this is English class, because I don't remember this being a thing. Okay, well I can accept that. Let's carry on. This checks off most of the time, actually, with a few exceptions that we'll get to. I kept going through the list: Mario Strikers Charged, check; Super Smash Bros. Melee, check; Metroid Prime Pinball, check. "Okay, now we're talking." I keep going and see Wii Play: Motion, Star Fox: Assault... "Sunuva." Conclusion 1

Conclusion 1 (Corrected): Revised theory: you may use a colon if the subtitle is one word, but it is not required. Okay, now that theory does in fact check off the vast majority, but still not all. "Okay, phew. Scared me there, but nothing too harmful. What's this though..." Sonic Lost World has two words but does not have a colon. This has actually gotten some others riled up who insist on using a colon. I completely agreed with the guy. "Damn it, Sega. I was onto something." I keep scrolling, Kirby Tilt 'n Tumble, Kirby Mass Attack. "You're kidding me, I know these had colons!" Turns out those don't, but a lot of Kirby titles do: Kirby: Squeak Squad, Kirby: Canvas Curse, etc. "Alright, alright. I'm onto you."

Conclusion 2: Theory: you may use a colon if the title is one word, but it is not required. So if the title at the beginning is one word or the subtitle at the end is one word, you can safely get away with not using a colon. I wish this was consistent through the franchise's games, but whatever. I don't like it, but I can accept it. As long as I know their thinking. This tactic of how you may use it if you so choose works out for the large majority of cases. See Pokemon Red Version, Pokemon: Let's Go, Pikachu!, Star Fox Command, F-Zero GX, etc. None of these disobeyed my theories. This got me wondering and hunting for exceptions since I'm bound to be wrong. I am a native English speaker, but I don't know the 'proper instructions' for details like these, so this has all been guess and check work so far. So in the case of F-Zero GX, "GX" counts as one word just as much as "4" would count at the end of Resident Evil 4. You would not expect to see a colon between the series' name and the number. Well let's see about Kirby Super Star Ultra: from my first guess before all this analyzing, I'd expect a colon at the beginning after "Kirby" and then one near the end before "Ultra". (<- and notice that I put the period after the quotations even though I'm not British, so I may be a terrible reference for any of this. Please take at your own discretion. Surprised that I haven't said that yet.)

Conclusion 3: Theory: once a source is published, any future naming additions to it work the same way as stated in Conclusion 1 and 2. In the example of Kirby Super Star Ultra, it was a game much earlier as Kirby Super Star without a colon and then upgraded with what we can consider a one-word subtitle (Ultra), so this does not need a colon either. Now this checks off more in Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD. Right about now I'm thinking, "You dawg, you're figuring out the puzzle no one cared about or even knew existed. Now let's keep looking, we're bound to see disappointment if we look hard enough." I didn't have to look too long. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Fight Night Round 2 DO NOT follow my rules. I have seen a few renegades online that support the colon (out of stubbornness or laziness to look up the proper way, I don't know), but it just isn't. I would fight it but I know I'd be wrong. That's the name of the games from what I could tell and that's how the company and most everyone who talks about them uses their names. Even though Donkey Kong and Fight Night were published games in their own right, they refuse to obey my rules. "Alright, I'm so exhausted. You win, go on." There's gotta be something that really punches me in the gut, so I can comment on Sergecross73's wall and make him (her?) feel as if I'm trying to make a difference and help Wikipedia achieve to be THE conclusive source for all the world's info that it is meant to be. "Whoa, what's this." What do you do when there is a colon in the friggin' subtitle? Enter Resident Evil - Code: Veronica X. "What the H-E-double hockey sticks is that?" It looks like a hyphen (I kinda cheated a sentence ago and wrote it with one), but it's a different symbol called an em-dash. I don't know if you're familiar with this or have ever cared at all, but after looking up "long hyphen" in a internet search engine, I finally learned a bit of proper technical expertise rather than my own guesswork. Hyphens are reserved to combine words when it could be misleading otherwise (along with other uses), and dashes are separate from that and are broken down into en-dashes and em-dashes based on the length of the dash. En-dashes are used as a symbol for through, as in a time through another time or a date through another date, and em-dashes are used in place of parentheses to group sections of a sentence or for dramatic pause. "So that's why an em-dash was used in the Code Veronica page in Wikipedia, awesome."

Conclusion 4: Theory: when a colon is already used, an em-dash is to be used in the next adjacent spot that the colon would be placed. I found this to be true from my examples, but I wish I lived with Scooby-Doo and I conveniently had a local expert on the very subject that I could ask like, "Hey Paul, you got a PhD in English studies and even wrote your thesis on How to Write a Title: The Correct Way to English. Can you give us a hand? Maybe we can even wrap this up within the half-hour." But I'm working with what I have. (Untrained deduction?) And this seems to be true for the most part. Checking Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome Amiibo, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare - Reflex Edition, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice, and Pokemon Yellow Version: Special Pikachu Edition. "We're back onto something. Let's keep the train going!" "So Wikipedia checks off, what does the internet say." Nintendo says "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition". "Uhh... Well that's just ...wrong. Sigh... Whatever, let's keep going." They say "Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome Amiibo" with a hyphen, not an em-dash. "Alright, we're close. But that's wrong. A hyphen is wrong. I've found that out." Their listing is purely art, a hyphen in that situation is wrong. I have to remember that the company makes games, they are not the officials in English. An individual(s) who works at Nintendo writes these and that was close, but they should be given a heads-up in the future. They also say "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice" with a hyphen. Alright, we knew what they meant, an em-dash, not a hypen. And for Pokemon's case, they say "Pokemon Yellow Special Pikachu Edition" completely omitting any form of punctuation. (I omitted the accents on the e in "Pokemon" for simplicity in typing.) Finally, checking back to the culprit of this em-dash situation, they say "Resident Evil Code: Veronica X". "Wha... What are they doing? No one agrees with that." I saw many different ways to say the game's title: "Resident Evil CODE: Veronica X", "Resident Evil: Code Veronica X", "Resident Evil -- Code: Veronica X". From my limited knowledge in piecing together the 'most used' way to spell the game, I generally had agreement to what Wikipedia currently uses with the em-dash. When article authors or YouTube users are using one (or sometimes two) dash(es), they are generally meaning the em-dash, which is in agreement to Wikipedia. So this brings me into question everything I'm asking. "Why trust the source when they are just wrong?" I believe they mean this, so should I correct them? Or is it art, so I'd be tampering to do so? I am trying to get the heart of the issue here. Some are just lost causes. I've explained Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Fight Night Round 2, as it is fairly unanimous on how it should be written out. But when there are inconsistencies throughout the web on how to spell it, should I go with the most 'correct' way and charge forward?

Conclusion 5: I asked some rhetorical questions in there but I am curious to see your input on that last question. That may lead to some of my points coming up that you may hate me for... One last conclusion I came to that I forgot to mention and I'll stuff here. Some titles end in question marks or exclamation points, such as Mario's Early Years! Fun with Numbers, Overcooked! Special Edition, New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis, etc. This is more confirmed from the web than just a theory of mine based on empirical evidence from video game names: you should not use a colon after an exclamation point or question mark, as the punctuation characters end the thought.

Alright, let's get to the stuff that you'll hate me for. Hopefully you learned something along the way and I didn't just waste your time. You could ideally use this info if anyone yells at you for not naming something a certain way in the future. Here are several of the games currently on Wikipedia that I think should be named differently than their current iterations. Please feel free to put me in my place or encourage me however you see fit.

Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers (video game) -> "Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers (video game)"
 * Reason: Chip 'n Dale with the colon is the name of the TV show Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers and mobile game, so it's the one left out. If it is in the same vein as Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, then so be it, I won't touch it. But from searching the internet, it is divided on the proper way, so do we stand with the most 'proper' way, as seen from other material it was featured in? Based on the verdict for the first game, the second would be changed as well: Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers 2 -> "Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers 2"

Kirby & the Amazing Mirror -> "Kirby & The Amazing Mirror"
 * Reason: The most correct way would likely be to say "Kirby and the Amazing Mirror" but the boxart shows a capital "T" and the lowercase "the" looks incorrect succeeding the ampersand. To the reader, it sounds as if The Amazing Mirror is supposed to be important, apparently even as important as Kirby in this case with the use of capitalization.

'''"Sonic Adventure 2 Battle" within Sonic Adventure 2 -> "Sonic Adventure 2: Battle"
 * Reason: Subtitle, disputed between colon or not.

'''"Namco Museum 50th Anniversary" within Namco Museum -> ""Namco Museum: 50th Anniversary"
 * Reason: I could change this one myself since it isn't a full page, but it's on the same list as the others here. Subtitle, disputed between colon or not.

"The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Anniversary Edition" within The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Four Swords -> "The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords - Anniversary Edition"
 * Reason: Subtitle for the subtitle needs an em-dash. And while this is brought up the page name is misleading as it is currently named. This implies the game is one called "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Four Swords" when it is "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past" and "The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords". So the page name should be "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past / Four Swords" based on similar pages.

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance -> "Marvel Ultimate Alliance"
 * Reason: Disputed between colon or not. The series isn't Marvel, it's Marvel Ultimate Alliance. And the newest one (3) that is about to come out has its own subtitle that definitively does not have a colon after Marvel. Does that redact the colon from the previous entries? Same for Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2 -> "Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2"

Kirby's Dream Collection -> "Kirby's Dream Collection: Special Edition"
 * Reason: No dispute. This one actually just doesn't include the subtitle in its current name. Nothing makes it "special edition", as there is no Kirby Dream Collection: Original. It just came out to celebrate an anniversary.

'''Metroid Prime: Trilogy -> "Metroid Prime Trilogy"
 * Reason: Dispute between names. Well, well, well. So they finally use a colon, but not correctly. It is not a subset of the Metroid Prime games as the colon implies, but a compilation of three games as the no-colon version implies. So on Nintendo's listing for the game, it says "Metroid Prime: Trilogy" but within the description they say the name again without the colon! Going off of the primary source, including the colon is misleading but its usage is not even consistent. It isn't a consensus from my research on secondary sources, as many sources remove the colon and many keep it as Nintendo had it. I should point out that just typing "Metroid Prime Trilogy" will get you more results without the colon as there is vocal support for a rerelease of Metroid Prime Trilogy for the Switch after the announcement of Metroid Prime 4. Searching explicitly for the Wii version will get you the non-consensus I saw.

Skylanders: SuperChargers -> "Skylanders SuperChargers"
 * Reason: Official sources from Nintendo and Activision say it without a colon. I hate to undo the proper use of punctuation, but in the same vein as Fire Emblem Awakening, if they choose not to, they do not formally need the colon.

'''"Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition" in Batman: Arkham City -> "Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition"
 * Reason: Nintendo omits the second colon or dash and just powers through. I was shocked and, dare I say, a little proud that IGN at least does a double dash, acknowledging that it should be an em-dash before the edition suffix. In researching the next game on my list, I am proud that the Wikipedia page for Deus Ex: Human Revolution does the em-dash correctly for the Director's Cut.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna – The Golden Country -> "Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna ~ The Golden Country"
 * Reason: Guh. The one time it's seemingly perfect! Wikipedia uses an em-dash, but Nintendo uses a ...tilde. It's literally the art in this case. I thought it was just how they drew it on the box-art but they've used that writing on their website and YouTube promos for it and other have used either way, em-dash (more literally, they used the hypen) and tilde.

1-2-Switch -> "1-2-Switch" (with em-dashes instead of hyphens)
 * Reason: Now this one is driving me crazy. Just like in other situations where Nintendo used a hyphen when they clearly meant an em-dash. (think Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice and Snipperclips Plus - Cut it out, together!) We know what they meant, so it is our job to correct them? I am bothered that everyone online writes it with hyphens as well and the side of the box uses hyphens since Nintendo printed it, but the em-dashes are the correct punctuation there. A pause is intended as in a countdown: 1..2..Switch! They are not connected as hyphens would mean.

Here are two others I've found that I'm not quite sure of the best way to resolve but I figured I'd bring them up in the discussion: The Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse -> "The Magical Quest starring Mickey Mouse"
 * Reason: This is where that English Nobel-laureate roommate would come in handy. Internet searches are terrible for answering my question to this, but isn't "starring" supposed to be lowercase and then there actually would not be a colon? I can't seem to find something with "starring" in the title, only the advertising on the poster so the grammar for how it would be written as the movie's title is left unnecessary. Otherwise, if "Starring" is capital, I would think there is a missing colon. Same goes for its sequels and handheld remakes: Disney's Magical Quest Starring Mickey and Minnie -> "Disney's Magical Quest starring Mickey and Minnie", The Great Circus Mystery Starring Mickey & Minnie -> "The Great Circus Mystery starring Mickey & Minnie", Disney's Magical Quest 3 Starring Mickey & Donald -> "Disney's Magical Quest 3 starring Mickey & Donald". This to me is the analogous to Super Smash Bros. for Wii U in that the "for Wii U" is two words, but they are a descriptor of the title and are not segmented into the role of the subtitle.

Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse -> "Disney's Magical Mirror starring Mickey Mouse"
 * Reason: Same reason as above, "starring".

Thanks for taking any amount of time to look into this. If any of these get fixed because of me, awesome. But if any don't change, I will try not to judge my entire life-worth on what a website names these games. At the very least, please pat me on the back so I know it'll all be okay. ^_^ --Bchill53 (talk) 00:34, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * How much time did you spend writing this message?  danny music editor  oops 00:35, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Haha probably more time than the total I've spent editing articles on Wikipedia. I hope Sergecross73 is honored at the very least... --Bchill53 (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I am honored. And I will answer you on this...tomorrow. Sorry, it’s Friday night over here and I don’t have time to give this the thorough answer it deserves. I’ll only say this at the moment: We titled it Fire Emblem Awakening because an editor asked Nintendo directly and they responded directly on social media. I remember being there for it. But that’s an extremely rare case and not the way to typically do things at all. It’s just an amusing anecdote. Sergecross73   msg me  00:50, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You'll have to read the whole thing. I've now long accepted that Fire Emblem Awakening is correct the way it is, don't worry. :) No rush on a reply, hope to hear from you whenever you get a moment. --Bchill53 (talk) 00:54, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Another interesting anecdote is that 19,276‎ bytes is easily long enough to comprise an entire article.  danny music editor  oops 01:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm honored that you've pinged me, so thanks. And omg, what a monster of a thread! I'll be sure to read through it all tomorrow and give my feedback. Cheers! ~ Arkhandar (message me) 01:39, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Of course! I know I'm missing others but the few users I mentioned all seem to have been in discussions similar to this in the past and you have been very knowledgeable in your decisions. You all seem approachable, so that can be good but may be bad when a newbie sends you a large wall of text like this. :) --Bchill53 (talk) 06:08, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Here's my comment: Names don't to have consistent rules, besides the implementation of WP:AT/WP:NC and the WP:MOS into the title. Particularly, the "Official Title" is not one of our naming rules, though it can be useful for disambiguation at times. A number of the comments you've made need to be checked against our policy and guidelines on the matter, and if you think those support a move, go ahead and file a WP:Move request on the talk page of the affected article. However, I'm seeing more than a few which would be rejected on that count.... --Izno (talk) 23:15, 11 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey there . I apologize for the delay in responding. The truth is, I've thought about this a lot, but struggled to come up with a response that was worthy of the massive effort you put into this. I'm afraid you may not like my answer, or my stance on it. Now, I've taken part in many renaming discussions over the years, so I can't say that it "doesn't matter". It certainly does. I feel very strongly that the articles exists at Valkyria Chronicles 3 and not Senjou no Valkyria 3. But why do I care? Because of the ability of readers to find and understand the information they need. And that's why, with a lot of the examples you've given...I don't feel like it matters all that much. Given the existence of the WP:REDIRECT, it really doesn't matter whether we call it Fire Emblem Awakening or Fire Emblem: Awakening - both situations yield the same result. Readers can search for either, and come to the page all the same. And both names have effectively the same meaning. It doesn't really matter what we call the article. My responses to your examples above varies. Some probably should be moved (Metroid Prime: Trilogy seems...awkward and probably incorrect. Just a guess though) while others are probably fine. But as long as they are recognizable and find-able through searches...I don't feel like it matters all that much. Sergecross73   msg me  03:13, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I'm not ecstatic to hear, but I appreciate the truthful response, . I won't fret too much over how things are named based on what I believe is the most 'correct' name. If I see any titles that I blatantly disagree with, I will change them in my own lists but accept how they are on Wikipedia. In that regard, I will try to go ahead and move any that I think should be moved. I started a move on something else before but asked if you could finish it up; do I ask you in the future or finish it up myself? I don't want to bug you too excessively if you don't need to be. Initiating the move was fairly self-explanatory, but I was confused about what to do after that. Although I've accepted a few of the names above, there would still be several that I may plow through and see if I'm opposed by moving them. You may have to wish me luck. :) Thanks! --Bchill53 (talk) 17:29, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, feel free to run examples by me, I’m happy to give my two cents. I’m just probably going to generally be indifferent if it’s about whether or not hyphens or colons are used. Sergecross73   msg me  03:35, 15 February 2019 (UTC)