User talk:Suonii180

Women in Red August 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 19:26, 28 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

So, the name Marie Avgeropoulos is not Greek?
Why do I have to cite someone's ethnicity when it's inherently blatant in their name? She was born in Canada to Greek parents, so she can't be Greek-born?

It's pretty racist not to acknowledge her Greek heritage by stipulating she's a Greek-born Canadian, don't you think?

Anyway, this is the last time I make an edit on the site. 174.91.42.146 (talk) 23:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Greek-born means born in Greece and she was born in Canada. Her Greek heritage is already mentioned in the main text and isn't necessary for the lead section. Suonii180 (talk) 12:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Greek-born doesn't mean born in Greece. It means born to Greek parents. Her Greek heritage should be mentioned in addition to her nationality.
 * You can't just call her Canadian. She's Greek Canadian. 174.91.42.146 (talk) 16:31, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Grammatically it means born in Greece and she doesn't have dual Greek-Canadian nationality. If you think the wording should be changed then it would be best to discuss it on the talk page to get consensus. Suonii180 (talk) 17:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

September 2023 at Women in Red
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New page patrol October 2023 Backlog drive
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Protection on AfDs
Hi, Suonii180! I wanted to check back with you about the AfDs that you'd requested protection for. I declined the requests because it looked like the offending IPs and new users have been pretty systematically blocked as they've popped up. I really think that if we protect those discussions, they'll just move on to some of the other 400 or so open ones: it looks like the targets are chosen at random. (At least, *I* can't see anything they all have in common.) If new disruption pops up, don't hesitate to notify WP:AIV, WP:ANI, or | if I'm around, you can ping me directly. Joyous! Noise! 01:57, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * , that's a good point about them moving to other AfDs, thanks for letting me know! Suonii180 (talk) 15:21, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

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Sandra Bowman: Personal Life Section
Hello, I made a change to Sandra Bowmans personal life section, stating that she had 2 children. It was removed due to me not linking a creditable source. I am actually her biological child, Isobel, which is creditable. If you need further proof, I can email you mine or my mams facebook page. This will show you that she has listed both me and my brother, Matthew, as her children. Thank you x 82.25.240.116 (talk) 21:58, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, if you have a close connection with the subject of an article then you have a conflict of interest and should avoid editing the page directly and should instead discuss changes you wish to be made on the article's talk page, please see WP:COI for more information. As for providing a reference for personal information, facebook is not considered to be a reliable source as it's user-generated, please see WP:RELIABLE for what can be used as a reference. Wikipedia has stricter rules on what can be included in biographies of living people and unless the information has been published in secondary sources then it probably shouldn't be added to the article. Suonii180 (talk) 22:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red October 2023
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Women in Red - November 2023
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November Articles for creation backlog drive
 Hello Suonii180:

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Timeline of Belfast history
Most of that content was from the "History of Belfast" page and, therefore, belong on the History Timeline of Belfast. As someone who lives in Belfast, I deserve a bit of a grace period to enter my sources without a busy body coming along and undoing all my work (especially when it's already been accept on a Wikipedia main page). Next time, ask before you undo in seconds what took a couple of hours to create. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.220.8 (talk) 23:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * It's the responsibility of the editor adding new information to include references at the same time they add that information. Please see WP:BURDEN. If you need any help with referencing then please see HELP:REFB. If you have questions feel free to ask myself or alternatively you can ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE. Suonii180 (talk) 23:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Hasty Removal
Do not remove my content without giving me time to find all the proper citations, especially when it is being transposed from a pre-existing Wikipedia page (History of Belfast). Also, there are some you removed that have proper citations based on BBC News articles. I live in Belfast and I know more about this topic than you. I do legitimate research and I don't appreciate my work being casually removed. If it happens again without messaging me first, then I'm going to report it. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * . As per WP:BURDEN, if you add information then you should add the reference alongside it as you shouldn't add information without checking a source. If the information is in another article and you can check the reference then use it. If it's unsourced then it would be better that you found a source before moving it. It's not the responsibility of other editor's to assume that you're going to come back later to fix your edits. If you're doing a large edit then it would be useful to use your WP:SANDBOX to ensure everything that needs to be sourced is before you add it. Living in Belfast doesn't mean you can add unsourced information, see WP:IKNOW. Suonii180 (talk) 23:38, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Nor does it mean that you have the right to police other people's additions by hanging over them like a hawk. Every edit done on here has a grace period and often a message is sent to the editor before content is removed. My living in the city does not act as substitute for citations, however, my work on the actual History of Belfast page (with citations) and my being in Belfast should make you think twice before cavalry deleting content on a whim. You did not even do me the courtesy that I have done for other editors and they have done for me which is to contact first BEFORE removal. You just took it upon yourself to remove my content without any warning and that is poor form. You are also the only editor I've encountered on Wikipedia who has done this backwards. Message first, give time for edit THEN and only then remove content. Do not go off half-cocked again and do not remove any of my content, especially when I have provided a credible source. Learn to communicate or else don't be an editor. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:47, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Everyone has edits that get reverted at one stage or another and it's not a given that you're going to get a discussion about it before hand. If you want to encourage more communciation it may be better to avoid editing while you're logged out and then switching to being logged in. Also, don't tell editors to stop editing because they disagree with you, it's impossible to agree with every other editor on Wikipedia and isn't a constructive way to discuss issues. Suonii180 (talk) 22:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * i have no issue with editors editing. You removing content lightning quick while do very little to communicate first is your mistake. No one else has done this in my years of adding content, just you. You gave it hours then deleted content while others have given days or even weeks to make corrections without removing anything first. Some even offer advice. My advice to you is, communicate and only delete as a last resort and loads of time. People do not volunteer their time and intellect to have some busy body come along and undo all their hard work because they are on a power trip. Be professional and help improve, dont destroy. Kylecholmes (talk) 00:08, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia cannot be used as a source as per WP:CIRCULAR, I've removed them from the article and added citation needed tags. I'll give you time to add citations but if you don't go back and add them then I'll remove any unsourced content. If I have time myself to find them then I will but again as per WP:BURDEN it should be you that finds sources. Please see WP:RELIABLE for what sources are acceptable. If you need help with sourcing then feel free to ask me or at the WP:TEAHOUSE. If the information wasn't sourced in the article that you moved it from then you shouldn't have moved it without first finding sources. Suonii180 (talk) 00:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's fair. As per our previous dialog, give time for sources to be found as this is being done on my free time. I did wonder about using Wikipedia as a source and will avoid in the future. If I use an outside, credible source that is also found on the History of Belfast main page I expect it to be accepted. Kylecholmes (talk) 14:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Only if you can personally check the source. You can't be sure that it definitely covers the information as a past edit may have changed or removed content without updating the reference. This happens too frequently for other editors to always be able to catch or fix and is why unsourced information is often reverted. Wikipedia is a WP:USERGENERATED site which means that you can't assume that it's reliable or correct. Suonii180 (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel we are on the same page now. I appreciate you adding the "citation needed" markers as they help the process. I have added citations to every reference point and even tried to double up when I can making sure all sources are credible. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The article looks great, thank you for adding the sources. Suonii180 (talk) 01:04, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

List of people from Glasgow
Hi, lists aren't exempt from needing sources as per WP:SOURCELIST and Wikipedia can't be used as a source as per WP:CIRCULAR. If you need help with referencing please see HELP:REFB. Suonii180 (talk) 16:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Well, two things: firstly, whoever made that rule probably isn't aware of how strong their sense of irony is. Of course, I do see that merely by writing something doesn't mean it's true. And by quoting itself, the site could be repeating its own mistakes. But then the question must be, if it can't quote itself, (even when it has already allowed the unreferenced information to stand unchallenged, as it is currently doing, on Russell Waters' profile, i.e., ' Place of Birth: Glasgow '); how is it the uncorroborated information there is allowed to be true, but not elsewhere, when transposed ? Should I, you, anyone, now go to that actor's page and delete it ? If that's so, then all of us shall be doing little else, as there must be many, many thousands of such instances.

I'll let it go, then But I think we know that we'd both choose choose to say ' Glasgow ' as the answer, both for him and for Olaf in a millionaire quiz show. If it's true on one page, uncorroborated, then it's true if repeated on another, and vice versa. A great shame, but where there are two wills, there's not always a way. I'm content to let our contrasting philosophies lie on these pages. I think consistency shall have to wait patiently for his claim to be recognized by future judges.
 * Regards to you. Heath St John (talk) 17:48, 14 November 2023


 * It's the responsibility of the editor to add sources as per WP:BURDEN and if you find unsourced information that you think may be untrue or that you can't find a reference for then you should remove it. You should not move unsourced information to a another article and if it is sourced then you should check the source before using it as per WP:SAYWHERE. There are countless of instances of unsourced material and adding more unsourced content is not going to help fix the problem. I've already directed you to HELP:REFB but if you have any questions about referencing then feel free to ask me or you can ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE. You can also have a look at WP:RELIABLE to see what kinds of sources you should use. Suonii180 (talk) 12:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Afternoon. I'll conclude by saying this, then. You say, ' There are countless instances of unsourced material... ' :- yes, adding more isn't going, as you say, to help; yet:- if so, how does leaving those that remain help ? Leaving any which are found, (and you rightly say yourself there are ' Countless ' examples), is to condone it. If it's condoned in one place, it can't justifably be objected to in another.

By arbitrarily removing some, such as the two in question, and leaving others, that's arbitrarily selectivising the truth for everyone else. It's establishing oneself as supreme judge. When that's practised, it nullifys the truth, which references' existence claim to establish. Selectively removing some, and leaving others, is a God-head rôle.

Whilst I admire your and others' dedication, I ask you to submit the reasonableness of these truths to the greatly-practised judgement of your own mind, and try to visualise yourself as a third-party, reading this, to see if your mental position still holds.

It's not the expression of wounded pride, but as the instinctive defender of the principle that judgements should be applied consistently that encourages me now to say to you, (I think a badge-holdindg Editoress), that that is just the type of whimsical editorial dictatorialness suggestive of dismissive impunity that greatly discourages volunteers from carrying on; making Wikipaedia, eventually, an impossibility.

I have not meant to wound, just to speak frankly, as I genuinely do admire dedication. Heath St John (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

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 * Hello to whoever posted this.
 * The' Cancelling Disputes ' section applies here, I think: as I do ! know what a ' Cabal ' is.
 * Thanks very much. Heath St John (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red December 2023
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Talk:Rowing at the 2023 Pan American Games – Men's lightweight double sculls
Hi there. You put list on the banner shell (great!) but then you added start to the project banners - why? If you have the rating in the shell, then it is not necessary to rate the separare banners. Thanks &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Apologies! Thanks for bringing it to my attention and for making the fixes on this talk page and and the other rowing ones. Definite WP:TROUT moment on my part! Suonii180 (talk) 23:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

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Sam Campbell
Sam Campbell was definitely born in 1991, September 19. On the skills in time Facebook, he uploaded his CV as a joke but it includes all his real details including full name (with middle name), birth date and address. There are also two separate sources for his birth date already listed on his wiki. I don't know how to attach images here but I can send it. Thepowerandtheglory (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

An image of the source isn't sufficient, it would have to be a live or archived link, please see HELP:REFB on how referencing should be formatted. While Facebook can be used as a source it is self-published and a primary source so more care should be given before using it especially if the information was originally put online as part of a joke, more details about using Facebook as a source can be found at WP:FACEBOOK. If you've found references already in his article that mention his date of birth and you think they're reliable then by all means add the information however please be aware that personal information about living people has stricter rules about sourcing than other information on Wikipedia as per WP:BLPPRIVACY. Suonii180 (talk) 22:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC)


 * On the Trusty Hogs podcast, at minute 26:39, Sam himself says he is 32 as of Novermber 2023. In this article about his Barry win (which is also citation number one on Sam Campbell's Wiki page, in the infobox), it states he is 26 as of April 2018. As I stated on Willondon's talk page, doing simple math would tell you it is impossible for him to be 31 in February 2024 and 26 in April 2018, unless you somehow had contrary information about his birth month which you must source. Even if he were somehow joking about his age in the podcast, the article cited corroborates with his being 32 now.
 * Here is the FaceBook post I was referring to: https://www.facebook.com/profile/100063587326307/search/?q=CV. Skills In Time is Sam Campbell's collective group, he also personally posted frequently on the FaceBook page and other information in the CV aligns with information that is either already known or not found elsewhere (middle name, his email address which is in fact his real email address as evidenced by his YouTube video descriptions and the fact he's posted his email address on screen at many gigs, his high school education which he corroborates in the WTF Welcome to Meet You podcast). I understand this might have been posted as a joke but the The Age article and the Trusty Hogs podcast should be enough to prove he was not born in 1992.
 * Not sure why there is still insistence that he was somehow born in 1992 or not born on September 19. Do you have any source or explanation for why you think he was born a year later? Considering there are already multiple sources stating he was born in 1991.  Thepowerandtheglory (talk) 00:14, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have infact cited both sources but the infobox on his page is still ambiguous as to his age despite this. Thepowerandtheglory (talk) 00:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I wasn't insisting the age was wrong, whenever it was added to the article the sourcing was not added alongside it. If a source covering the info is in the article already then it should also be added next to dates of birth otherwise it's not clearly sourced. When adding information the WP:BURDEN is on the editor to include referencing and as I've said above personal information should not be included without sources, please see WP:BLP for more info on biographies of living people. Information in infoboxes doesn't change automatically when editing the main text in the article, please see Template:Birth date and age for the format used in infoboxes. Suonii180 (talk) 20:10, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. Thepowerandtheglory (talk) 23:04, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Chinese female beach volleyball players


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Munir Shakir
Your information about Shakir munir is totally wrong.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Umer222 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


 * As per the message I left at you talk page, I reverted your edit because you replaced sourced content with unsourced content. It is the WP:BURDEN of the editor adding information to provide sources. If you need help with referening then please see HELP:REFB and WP:RELIABLE. Suonii180 (talk) 18:31, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

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Edits removed from York School (California)
Hi there, you removed my edits of York School's page, claiming that they needed citations. I am York's Communications & Marketing Manager, simply trying to update our long-outdated page. I am unsure what kind of citations I can provide outside of our website, as we are a small, independent nonprofit school, but I would appreciate some clarity as to what appeared inaccurate. The outdated edits did not include citations either, for the reason I just stated. I am happy to remove anything that seems overly-promotional but much of what I added were simply facts about our programs, arts, sports offerings, history, etc.  YorkSchoolCommunications (talk) 22:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It is up to the editor adding information to provide a source as per WP:BURDEN, for sources which are considered to be reliable please see WP:RELIABLE. Unfortunately unsourced information is often added to Wikipedia without being noticed by other editors, this doesn't mean that it should replaced with more unsourced information. If you have a conflict of interest then it's advised that you do not edit the page directly. A COI notice has previously been added to your talk page by another editor, please read through it to understand Wikipedia's policy on conflict of interests. If you think there's information that should be added then you can use an edit request at the talk page. Suonii180 (talk) 22:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Apologies, I've just noticed that the notice on your talk page was regarding possible paid advocacy, I'll add a COI notice to your talk page to give you more info. Suonii180 (talk) 22:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you! This makes sense.  I mostly want to correct the incorrect and outdated information on the page, (some of which conflicts with other information on the page itself—for example, in the infobox it says we are Episcopalian but elsewhere it says we left the Diocese years ago, which is accurate). I will circle back in time and request edits through the proper channels.  Thanks! YorkSchoolCommunications (talk) 20:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

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