User talk:Tiamut/Archive/Archive 01

RE: Advice
I'm sorry to say but I'm not very qualified in that area, but this could be a job for The Cleanup Taskforce. I think you've done about as much as you can so if you ask for help from them I'm sure the job will get done! -- Mahoga n y 03:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

An Exchange Between Aeon & Doc Tropics: In Their Own Words
Someone is now trying to get it undeleted. [| Link] Aeon 15:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow! That didn't take long. I think we need to put that article down with a stake through its chest and stuff its mouth with holy wafers...--Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 15:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC) on the What really happened AFD


 * Falls out of chair becuase he is laughing so hard* I know a catholic chaplian, you get the stake I will give him a call Aeon 15:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

... as a late night, very verbose editor/author of articles like Palestinian Christian and Mary's Well...
I feel this is a personal threat. Tiamut 18:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Tiamut
We (myself and doc Tropics) did not make any threats. We are just sharing a joke about that AfD. Sorry if it has irratated you but you must understand that that was a rather stressful AfD for all concerned and a little release was needed. The article in question in mine and several other opinion needed to be deleted, it was not notable enough to be in wikipedia. Please in the future not accuse anybody of making threats, it was a simple joke about the AfD (the fact that it wasn't until the next day that is was nomed for undelete.) and not ment to be anyhting but a joke. Aeon 20:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Note I have replied on both mine and Doc Tropic's Talk pages, please reply on both thank you Aeon 20:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Question for you Tiamut, why did you take a joke about the AfD of What really Happened as a personal attack. The fact is I didnot even know that you edit articles on christan faith or even that you are verbous. Verbouse in most cases on Wikipedia is a good thing, so after rereading your comment on my talk page(once I got over my shock) Please answer this question, why did you think of it as a personnal attack?

Also you seem a little new to the Wiki so remember to allways assume good faith, most cases things such as this are not ment against you ;) Happy and hopefully verbosly bold editing Aeon 21:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've answered you on my Talkpage; can I suggest we keep the conversation there for readability? First though, I'd like to echo Aeon on one point: "verbose" is good on WP, feel free to help flesh out some of my articles if you're ever interested :) --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 21:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I will answer you both, as suggested, on User Talk:Doc Tropics page.Tiamut 08:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Tiamut, I'm glad that we're resolving this misunderstanding amicably. Please note that Aeon is well intentioned and means no harm; his response suffered from a very unfortunate spelling error, but I'm sure you can assume good faith and overlook it :)


 * I noticed that you had posted about this situation in the public forum Village pump (assistance) and I responded there by summarizing my views of the situation. Since we seem to have resolved it all satisfactorally, would you be willing to place another post there to acknowledge our resolution? I'd sure appreciate it, and I think it would be useful for readers to see our comments together. Thanks in advance, and happy editing. --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 18:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I did as you asked. I'm sorry about posting there. I was just very shaken (by my misinterpretation) at first and didn't feel I could address the two you directly. I didn't know how to get advice on what to do and thought it would help. It's been a lot of unnecessary writing on a lot of different pages and I'm sorry for any discomfort I've caused you. I've learned to just go to people directly and as you said, assume good faith. Happy editing to you too.Tiamut 18:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Preview
I would like to thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. However, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thanks again. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 05:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok Why do you think I wish to treaten you
First off I wish to know why you think I would treaten you and second I'm not an Admin (Sysop) on Wikipedia. I'm a system admin for my Weather office.

Now Tiamut Please stop accuseing me of making threats I'm not, ok. I don't wish this to go any farther. Please understand this please stop, If this contiunes I may submit a Request for Comment or Mediation to resolve this. My reply to you had a wording prblem and was not how I intended it so I fixed it. Note: That I have replyed to you on your talk page as well (posted this one over the old one, the old one was a little Fiester and not how I wanted to come off) Aeon 18:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Tiamut there is something eles. I didn't even notice your comment on the Deletion Review. Thank you for answering the Doc on this matter. Aeon 18:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving on
Thanks Tiamut! I'm totally pleased with the outcome and I heartily endorse the idea that we forget about it and move on. I'll be going out of town this weekend and away from my computer for a week (I'm already feeling withdrawel pains), but when I return maybe we could work together on an article? I know that we have somewhat differrent points of view and I think that by working together we could not only write stronger articles, but we could probably both learn a lot in the process. I've actually had a lot of fun recently by expanding random stubs into small but decent articles and submitting them to Did You Know?. It can be very interesting trying to write an article about a subject that you're not intimately familiar with; the search for information leads one to new places and new understandings. Anyway, it's just a thought. Thanks again :) --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 18:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL no worries!
don't worry about man. Here is more than a truce

A token of my esteem


I'm glad we've gotten to know each other :) --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 20:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Same here Tiamut hope to collaberate with you on and article in the future. Good Luck and Happy Editing Aeon 02:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * thanks for the good wishes; talk to you again in a week or so. --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 02:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Please stop removing data from Operation Summer Rains. If you want to add something new, feel free, but do not remove existing data. Especially when you only post with a major POV.--Spoil29 18:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Both sources basically the same thing except the jpost has more specific information as to what the IDF claims are. Notice it is not reported as fact. For now we have too little information on this.

Hey Tiamut send me a link to that page so I can see what is going on. That way we can keep this from going south Aeon 22:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If it was a missile I would gladly change it. However, it is not confirmed yet, lets give it some time. The sources that you added apparently use the fact that the IAF fired a missile at around the same time this happened as a claim of responsibly. Just give it some more time is all I ask, can we agree on this?--Spoil29 00:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * By the looks of it this article is a very contversal (SP). Looks like fast and furious editing by all parties. Aeon 04:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Good idea. Have a nice cup of tea and let cooler head prevail (Have a nice cup of tea is another Wiki policy...lol) Aeon 03:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Edits to Nazareth
Hi, Tiamut, I just did a bunch of rewriting for fun and NPOV over in Nazareth; I notice you seem to have an interest in this article, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up to go see if you think I've mucked it all up. :) Also, did some reformatting on that nice Mary's Well, making it (I hope) a bit nicer. BTW, a belated welcome to Wikipedia (as a named user anyways)! Keep up the good work! Eaglizard 00:27, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Need an Outside opinion
RfC

I know you havn't edited this article but looking for an outside view on the matter. Aeon Insane Ward  19:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your comments and offer of collaboration. Anta Falasteeni? When I first came here at Wikipedia, I wondered why there is only 1 Palestinian editing. And now I know that the pro-Israeli users have driven them all out of Wikipedia! If you have interest in editing Wikipedia (I don't want to force my hobby on anyone who is not) I think you should participate more often and not let over-agressive Israelis deter you from editing articles.

I wish I could be of more help and do more but I'm not very familiar with issues related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. I guess my role here is to encourage those who are knowledgeable to balance Palestinian-related articles. I hope to see you more often :D. --Inahet 18:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's tough ... the Zionists will track you down at home and ring up prominent people in your neighbourhood with their vicious slurs. (And will make these complaints to your professional body). You need to be wealthy (or have a very supportive boss) and have no children if one is serious about bringing balance to any discussion concerning Israel.
 * PalestineRemembered 07:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Marhaba. I went through the discussion about your membership in the project. I am not sure what are the rules concerning membership in Wikiprojects, I know that Wikiprojects are not to be exclusive and I can say that deleting your user name was very incivil on their part. If they continue to give you problems, you should bring this up immediately with other editors.

You may consider also participating in the notice board for Palestine-related topics. Shukran. --Inahet 18:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Wa kula sana wanta Tayeb. :-D --Inahet 16:57, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Question
I will answer your questions one by one.
 * Why would you assume that I could only make contributions to the "Arab-Israeli" articles related to Israel?

You implied so with your anti-Israeli comments, especially by stating that you wish to bring as much balance as is possible, which would indicate that your main objective is not to edit neutral articles (such as Arad, Israel, Netanya or Bezeq), but ones which actually require balance, which are almost exclusively contentious articles where Israeli and Arab interests could clash (i.e. Arab-Israeli conflict articles).
 * Don't you know that some of your fellow citizens (and non-citizens under occupation) are not Jewish but know quite a lot about Israel?

Actually I bet they do (there was this Arab kid a while ago who beat all the Jewish kids in a test about Zionism), and our coverage on Israeli Arab topics is very lacking. It would be especially great if someone expanded the articles on Israeli Arab localities such as Baqa-Jat, Tira, Tayibe, etc. and created new articles on localities like Arrabe.
 * Are non-Jewish Arabs or Palestinians disqualified from commenting on all things Israeli?

No, you will notice that I supported User:Ramallite in his RfA, who is an Arab Palestinian living in Ramallah, who frequently edits Israel-related articles, and actually expresses heavy anti-Israeli sentiment on his userpage. However, he is not prejudiced in his actual edits. While I don't know whether you're an Arab (for all I knew at the time I supported your removal from the project, you could be an Israeli Jew), you have already displayed heavy anti-Israel prejudice in your manner of speech (on Wikipedia) and therefore it's hard to believe that you will be able to actually bring balance to Israel-related articles. However, as I said on the project talk page, I always assume good faith and look at the user's actual edits before judging them (as displayed in the case of Ramallite). You will notice that I supported your removal for completely different reasons, unrelated to your anti-Israel sentiment.
 * Is this why you support Yisrael Beiteinu? Do you support his transfer program to push Arabs out of Israel or do you like the party for other reasons?

Yisrael Beitenu is a party that speaks to me for a number of reasons. I do not support a program to 'push Arabs out of Israel', but I do support a program in which the green line will be re-drawn to include the triangle in a Palestinian state. The reason is that Arab Israelis living in the triangle openly identify with the Palestinians more than they do with the Israelis, so why should they not live in a Palestinian state? I obviously do not support physical removal of anyone. From my impression, the citizens of the triangle want to enjoy Israeli freedom of expression (to openly express anti-Israel sentiment) and superior economy, but also want Israel to become an Islamic state (or at least a multi-ethnic and multi-religious state), and I don't want to lose the only Jewish state in the world for a 23rd (or was it 28th?) Islamic state. I also do not wish them any harm, so why not simply tell them that they either get their Palestinian state (re-drawing of border), or their superior economy (staying within Israel). They can't have both.

This is of course just one of many reasons I support the party. One of the other important reasons is that it's a unified party, under Liberman who is its undisputed leader. The problem with parties like Kadima, Likud and Avoda is that they all have severe infighting and when the leader tries to make a decision, half the party tries to curtail him by default. This makes it nearly impossible to run a country. Sharon and Olmert proposed a presidential system, but if more people just vote for Liberman, it will solve this problem.

Another reason is that fighting crime is high on the party's agenda - crime has shot up significantly in Israel lately and no major party is even mentioning (except in passing) in their election campaigns. Half the police force is corrupt and nobody except Israel Beitenu cares.

Lastly it is contrary to Wikipedia conventions to vote for/against someone in RfA just because of their political stance. Again, you may refer to Ramallite's RfA; you will notice that many pro-Israeli Wikipedians voted for him despite his open resentment of Israel and what it represents.

I hope I have answered all your questions. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 20:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You seem to be saying that you want Israel to continue functioning as an apartheid state. The attitude you're promulgating is that Israeli-Arabs should be content to be 2nd-class citizens, whereas others (perhaps yourself?) are entitled to 1st-class status.
 * You seem to be saying to Israeli-Arabs that, if they live in a predominantly Israeli-Arab area then it's right for them to be expelled en-bloc. Into a non-nation state that has clearly been very, very badly damaged by the arrival of huge numbers of refugees. (Check what Montenegrans feel about the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo, ask yourself why NATO bombed Belgrade and why the Hague prosecuted Milosevic). And this is over and above 40 years of quite horrid occupation.
 * I cannot see a lot of difference between your attitude and that of the South Africans. Please don't claim your situation is some form of reaction to the Holocaust, because Zionists were intent on ethnic cleansing around 50 years before Nazism came to power. (Clips if you need them).
 * However, I must say you behaved honourably on a previous occasion when we clashed over reversion of edits, and I'm not attempting to smear you as acting with POV.
 * PalestineRemembered 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Email
Ahlan wa sahlan, I wanted to email you something, (not Wikipedia related), but I see you don't have an email specified. You can specify an email address in your preferences shukran. --Inahet 18:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Jisr al Zarqa
Hello, I took a look at that article and saw that the image was missing. I can help you fix that, can you give me the link to the image? Maybe it was deleted? --Inahet 17:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahlan, I know the problem, you have to upload the image first to Wikipedia. So first thing is to determine the license of the photo that you wish to obtain and upload onto Wikipedia. According to Wikipedia policy,

"Images found on websites or on an image search engine should not be uploaded to Wikipedia. (For exceptions, see Fair use and Free image resources" Also, this is the policy on Electronic intifada regarding borrowing images:

Q: Can I use photographs from your site?

EI: No. Photographic images are the property of the photographer. It is forbidden under copyright laws to republish images in any electronic or print format without the express permission of the photographer. Where photos have been donated to EI, we provide links in the photo caption to the photographer's website, when available. Some photographers may be willing to grant permission for your use of their images. Other images on EI have been purchased from wire service photo aggregators and are only licensed for use by EI. In addition, using HTML to link to images on our server so that they display on your page is expressly forbidden.

So unfortunately, you cannot use an image from their web site, unless you can use the image under WP:Fair use but I'm not familiar with this policy, so our best best is to look for images that are under free license. I'll do my best. --Inahet 18:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the award! If you need any more help, please ask me, it would be my pleasure to help out :). --Inahet 03:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Please do research on Nazareth archaeology before editing!
Dear Tiamut, You once wrote on your Talk page: “This article is not just religiously, but also historically inaccurate and not up to date on the most recent archaeological finds in Nazareth that support a heavy Roman presence at the time of Jesus.” Actually, the evidence supports a “heavy” presence in Middle Roman times (AFTER c. 100 CE), NOT in the time of Jesus. If you insist upon your position, I CHALLENGE you to produce published evidence (book, date, and page) of ANY archaeological finds dating to the turn of the era (= “the time of Jesus”). You see, your statement is completely false, though often believed. I have done eight years of research and am in the middle of writing a book on Nazareth archaeology. I'm not using my independent research in this Wiki article, and you don’t need to see my first three parts (from www.kevalin.org), but before posting on Nazareth archaeology please study Bagatti’s 325-page Excavations in Nazareth (vol. 1) and see for yourself. You should also read the pages of the scholars Kopp/Fernandez/Feig (in note #7) to see where the tradition has got it wrong. SURPRISE: there is no published research showing archaeological finds at the turn of the era AT ALL. This is why I am putting the sentence back that you deleted: ““Thus, it is possible that the town of Nazareth came into existence only with the spread of Christianity.” This is NPOV.

In your edit, you write: “removing claim that Nazareth only came into existence with Christianity since it is refuted by evidence cited throughout article.” This is wrong in two ways. (1) the sentence is a POSSIBILITY, not a claim. Please read it carefully. (2) the evidence in the “Archaeological History” section supports the lack of evidence in Early Roman times.

Please read the section again. Paragraph 2 says that Nazareth is not mentioned before III CE; that some published scholars (Eisenman, Zindler, Cheyne, Price. . .) think this is evidence for lack of settlement in Jesus’ day; and that no evidence has been found from Babylonian to Roman times (note 7). If I must add a footnote for the scholars (with page, etc.) who disbelieve Jesus’ Nazareth, I will do so. Please don’t forget to read paragraphs 3 and 4. Elias Shama’s tunnels are not Early Roman, and the tablet (Ordinance of Caesar) did not even come from Nazareth. In sum, there is no provable Early Roman evidence. Scholarship is now looking at this question again and very fundamentally. If you have something to contribute, you must read the specialized literature first!-- Renejs


 * Dear Renejs, I have done research on Nazareth archaeology. The only two excavations that have been conducted in the city itself were by the Israeli Antiquities Authority and Nazareth municipality in the lead up to 2000 celebrations (while renovating the well) and that conducted by Elias Shama with the help of American archaeologists (as outlined here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1067930,00.html) If you read the article, you will note that while the carbon-dating has not been done, the layout of the bathhouse is definitely Roman (I have seen it on four occasions myself). The hypocaust structure is unique to Roman and Hellenistic baths and the stone used for the bathhouse flooring is Italian. While it is premature to declare the find totally definitive, it is willful ignorance to dismiss the implications should it indeed prove to be from Roman times. And considering that serious archaeological excavations have yet to be done in Nazareth, you should be aware that further digs will find evidence of Roman settlement. Indeed there is pottery everywhere in the Old City, the Israeli authorities are merely uninterested in it because this is an Arab town. Additionally, I recommend that you read the works of Peter Carsten Thiede, in particular, "Jesus:Life or Legend?" And finally, I recommend that as one researching this topic that you give good faith consideration to evidence that might contradict your thesis and try not to belittle the knowledge of others whose experiences and knowledge though different, are likely equally as valid as your own. As for the sentence, it needs to reworded or moved to another section since it does not follow a newer edit placed there and frankly since there is a section dealing with the claims you support, I don't even see the need for its inclusion there. Good luck with your research. Tiamut 09:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear Tiamut. A newspaper article is not a source for reputable information on Nazareth archaeology, though I esteem the Guardian above many others. My research is restricted to published scholarly material. This is material written by archaeologists and by specialists on oil lamps etc. appearing in scholarly journals or books. There is a great deal of nonsense written about Nazareth archaeology, and much of this nonsense comes from word of mouth, “so-and-so himself told me,” newspaper articles, or “I visited the place myself many times.” Professor Richard Freund, for example, has not published on Nazareth, and he can say what he likes and be quoted in the Guardian. None of this matters when put against the published scholarly reports. Even the claims in the scholarly reports must be very carefully verified against the evidence in the ground.

I am aware of Shama’s finds and claims; also of the Mary’s well excavation, and I have a written personal communication from the archaeologist herself. Besides these two, there are a number of other excavations, by the way, that have been carried out over the last 110 years in the Nazareth basin outside the Franciscan property. They are of tombs. Incidentally, “Roman” does not mean “Early Roman” (which includes the time of Christ). There is a big difference. Finally, Tiamut, Thiede is a black sheep in the academic community. Very few people believe his theories. Best wishes.-- Renejs.

Tha Nazareth bath is clearly from the crusader period as the c14 dating has been done !!! see http://users.drew.edu/csavage/Nazareth.pdf best wishes

Palestine Navigation box

 * Have created a template for Palestinian related stuff Template:Palestine. Hopefully it will connect a lot of the articles out there and make it easier to navigate. Please help! See talk page Template_talk:Palestine Pockets23 15:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This template has been nominated for deletion: Templates_for_deletion Please try and make sure it doesn't so we can work on it until people are happy with it. Thanks Pockets23 18:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

أهلآ وسهلآ
Hi Tiamut,

I don't think we have talked before, but it is nice to see another contributor from Palestine. My best wishes. Palmiro | Talk 00:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, Tiamut. My frustrations are pertty much overpowering any desire to make much in the way of concrete contributions at the moment, and probably will for some time if not indefinitely... but thank you for the kind message, in any case! Anyway, please feel free to contact me if you wish for assistance on anything. Palmiro | Talk 01:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam
Thanks for joining wiki and contributing on very important stuff. I liked your essay on May Ziyada. Very important writer. I also liked your contribution to Jisr al Zarqa. Loking forward to your other contributions.--Thameen 13:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
Hello Tiamut. I haven't been able to contribute regularly of late but I am grateful for your barnstar (my first ever). It is an uphill battle around here, I know, but one can't just give up. Thanks so much for your award, I greatly appreciate it. Ramallite (talk) 18:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Transliteration of Jisr Al-Zarqa
Hi Tiamut,

I wasn't sure which transliteration was "more correct," so I asked FayssalF. He seemed to think that the the 'assimilated' version (az-Zarqa) was more in line with the Manual of Style, though you can follow up with him if you like. In general, one can move a page by pressing the "move" tab (next to "history"), and specifying a new title (for more, see WP:Move). I hope that I was helpful. If you have any other questions or comments, feel free to drop me a line. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 23:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Back
Salamat

I was born in Jenin area, in a village called Fandqomiyah or latin pentacomia. How about you?--Thameen 20:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry I did not see ur note that you are from Nazareth. Great. Are you still living there? --Thameen 20:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

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Bogus 3RR report
Please read WP:3RR before making bogus reports in an attempt to silence those who disagree with you. Isarig 02:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Isarig. I think you should read 3RR too before making bad faith accusations and anyway, it is up tothe admin to decide whether the report indeed qualifies. It is possible I misunderstood the policy, but: "Reverting, in this context, means undoing the actions of another editor or other editors in whole or part. It does not necessarily mean taking a previous version from history and editing that. A revert may involve as little as adding or deleting a few words or even one word (or punctuation mark). Even if you are making other changes at the same time, continually undoing other editors' work counts as reverting. "Complex partial reverts" refer to reverts that remove or re-add only some of the disputed material while adding new material at the same time, which is often done in an effort to disguise the reverting. This type of edit counts toward 3RR, regardless of the editor's intention." Tiamut 19:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In the words of admin who reviewed this, this is "Not in 24h, or even close ". I'd be more than happy to continue our discussion on the article's Talk page, but please cease from making threats. Isarig 19:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Third holiest site in Islam AfD debate
I've nominated this article for deletion Third_holiest_site_in_Islam, and would appreciate your comments on the matter.--Amerique 04:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Minor alert
Hi. I just noticed an unsigned comment from you at Articles for deletion/Michael Rivero. You might want to go back and sign it. Cheers, CWC (talk) 12:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Progressive List for Peace
OK Tiamut, I have some more sources confirming your interpretation. I'm currently translating an article by Samy Smooha on the Israel government's "Citizenship Education" site. I don't know whether you understand Hebrew; you may want to check it yourself at. I'll post the translation, and some comments from The Other Front, to the Talk page in a short while, and make suitable alterations to the article. By the way, I am RolandR, not RolandC! Best wishes. RolandR 13:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Naeim Giladi being slurred in his article - what to do?
Naeim Giladi - this article seems to have acquired a crop of "alleged" and "supposedly" and "he argues", implying that Giladi's words cannot be trusted. I know of absolutely no reason to treat him in this fashion.

Other highly objectionable elements have appeared - it is shameful to add a section "Use by anti-Zionists", and positively slanderous to link the guy to neo-Nazis simply on the basis that he is quoted by them. Nobody does this to supporters of Zionism - how come it keeps appearing in articles on critics of Zionism? What chance have Palestinians, if even non-aligned Jews get this horrid treatment?

Surely there must be some way of treating Giladi fairly? As far as I'm aware, nobody reputable (in fact, nobody atall) casts any doubt on his words. The encyclopedia has no business doing so.

PalestineRemembered 08:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

PS - crazy references at the bottom of the page have appeared, I don't know how to fix them. Nor why they've been added.

please cease personal attacks
per WP:NPA like you did on user talk pages concerning me. Thank you. Amoruso 23:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

"Personal attacks do not include civil language used to describe an editor's actions, and when made without involving their personal character, should not be construed as personal attacks. Stating "Your statement is a personal attack..." is not itself a personal attack — it is a statement regarding the actions of the user, not a statement about the user. There is a subtle difference between "You are a troll" and "You are acting like a troll", but "You seem to be making statements to provoke people" is even better, as it means the same without descending to name-calling. Similarly, a comment such as "responding to accusation of bad faith by user X" in an edit summary or on a talk page is not a personal attack against user X." Considering that it took you less than ten minutes to locate the comments that I made on another user's talk page, implying that you and other users are wikistalking seems to be a pretty accurate description, no? Also, considering that I have taken my concerns about your POV pushing to the Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard, the description is a valid one. Tiamut 23:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Since I edited that talk page I had it on my watchlist and noticed this incitement about me accusing me of POV and harrassment. What you cited has nothing to do with what you did. Cheers. Amoruso 00:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR violation
Please note you have violated WP:3RR on Land day. It's not the first time, and I'm supposed to report it since I already warned you in the past. I hope you stop. Thank you. Amoruso 03:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not think your assessment is correct, based on my (albeit rather muddled) understanding of 3RR. But feel free to report me. I believe that my edits, the vast majority of which are not "reverts", are honest editing attempts aimed at incoporating your research without the POV language. Note that I did not characterize the killings of the unarmed demonstrators by Israeli security forces as "violent"; that they were killed speaks for itself. Similary your references to the blocking of roads, throwing of molotovs and stones, etc. speak for themsleves. Repeatedly reinserting the word violent, just to make a a POV point and claiming that it is a widely known fact held by all Israelis constitutes WP:OR and violates WP:NPOV, which is why I encouraged you to attribute that source to an Israeli newspaper if you insisted on including it. Finally, you first changed the Land Day article only by inserting the word "violent", after listing it as a "violent" event at the Arab citizens of Israel page, and you did so without providing a source and seemingly only so as to support your POV that the event was "violent" (indeed, it accordss with your overall POV that all Arabs are "violent" ). So go ahead and report me, I think my edits are those of an honest and diligent editor and that that will be clear to those who review my actions. Tiamut 15:01, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have added a new section to this article - Killings by Security Forcs on Land-Day, 30th March. (I'm afraid it will need a lot more work!).
 * I've also changed the first sentence to reflect that, strictly speaking, "Land Day" is a commemoration of the killings in 1976. It wasn't originally a general protest against expropriation.
 * I don't know if you remember, but in 2005, the Gaza settlers blocked (main) roads in Israel. Their spokesman was interviewed on Israeli television, and invited to come back if his followers did the same thing the next day (unfortunately, I cannnot find a clip for this). Hero-making instead of hail of bullets - bit of a difference, eh? I think this latter event deserves a mention in the same article too, if you know of a reference to it.
 * And another point while I think of it ..... please don't waste your time dealing with unreferenced complaints about your editting - I'm still feeling my way around and can't really make out the full story. But if I examined the logs more carefully, I might be able to make out a case that you've been suffering harrassment. Best of all, remember that the nature of what happened isn't affected by someone inserting the word "violent", whether they have references for it or not. When it comes to Zionist violence, Israel commemorates it with approval, and it's been a great struggle (probably not always effective) to stop articles in the WP glorifying it.
 * Regards, PalestineRemembered 09:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * PS - remember that the Zionists are defending a $3 billion a year (+ + +) subsidy from the US, and a $trillion worth apartheid state. They have a sophisticated system for tracking down and silencing their opponents. You'd be most unwise to share any personal information in here, just as I don't. PalestineRemembered 09:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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 * I restored this image as the bookcover tag shows the license. Regards, Arniep 13:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Your message
Hi Tiamut, thankyou for your message- you might want to have a look at Talk:Palestinian_people. Arniep 13:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Zionists on our back

 * It is not any different in Israel. An Iraqi Jew would describe himself as "Iraqi". Isarig 23:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So what's the problem here, I don't get it. Elizmr 23:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My mistake, I thought "Iraqi Jews" wasn't a category. I had been entering it as "Iraqi Jew" and it wasn't coming up as a cat, so I changed it "Mizrahi Jews" in another article too because that refers to both Iranian and Iraqi Jews. I will accept the smaller cat, since I realize that I was wrong in thinking it did not exist. Apologies. Tiamut 19:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't fall into the trap set for you by the Zionists. Nobody with a life to live and potential concerns about persecution "self-identifies" as an "Iraqi Jew" (which partly explains what Isarig is telling you).
 * In fact, nobody wants to be labelled as "The Jew" or numbered amongst "The Jews", full stop. Just as (but much more strongly than) people wouldn't like almost anything I said about "The Americans" or "The French" or "The Palestinians".
 * The reason you're being drawn into this style of generalisation about groups is that the Zionists themselves are racists, and they think in this racist fashion. Follow this road, and sooner or later they'll claim "You said this about the Jews and you're anti-semitic" (and they'll have logic firmly on their side, even when it's themselves have taught you this way of thinking, and they're doing a grave injustice to you!).
 * I know you think I'm exaggerating about the danger the Zionists present to your life and mine ..... but I'm not. This is a well-oiled and ruthless machine. They don't want me here exposing the criminal nature of Israel (even if I can only do it in a pathetically small way!). And they don't want you, humanising the people they want to de-humanise.
 * PalestineRemembered 18:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)