User talk:Tyguy0240

comment

 * Billboard
 * Reuters/Billboard
 * Entertainment Weekly

If the reviewing admin deems this article appropriate, could it be moved to Justin Bieber (which is currently protected from creation due to multiple recreations following A7s). Cheers. Fribbulus Xax (talk) 00:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * justin bieber is gay!! --User:Tyguy0240
 * sex: gay --User:Tyguy0240
 * This appears to have been completed. tedder (talk) 16:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Advertisement or Wikibio?
While the list of factoids about the success of this kid's first album may be accurate, it reads like an advertisement. I think this page is being edited by PR people for this kid's album. Could somebody who cares about such things please chop out some of these unimportant facts like, "Bieber also became the first artist to have all songs from a single album to chart in the U.S. Hot 100." There's just a long list of such things and it comes off like an ad. --Dwinetsk (talk) 23:33, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Go ahead! Tan   &#124;   39  23:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree. The difference between advertisement copy and factual accolades is that factual accolades are written as opinions given by publications. For example, "The New York Times declared Justin Bieber the best vocalist of the 21st century" would not read like an advertisement, just a factual accolade. Unfortunately, this article is full of accolades stated as-fact and vague peacock words like "successful" and "positive." Neutralpov (talk) 10:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You're going to have to be more specific as having a single chart in the Top 40 is successful. -- Neil N   talk to me  11:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunaely NeilN, the designation that it is "written like an advertisement" is a critique of structure and prose -- NOT a critique of neutrality. So I'm not sure how your retort relates to removing that label. It IS written like an advertisement. Neutralpov (talk) 12:52, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, mirroring what I said on your Talk page here-- Justin Bieber's article is written like an advertisement about a current event, in complete contravention of Wikipedia's standard musician template. The second paragraph begins "The first part of his two-part[6] debut album My World was released on November 17, 2009" -- it is traditional to list albums and singles in the Discography section of the standard music template, not the fourth sentence. (See, for example, Souljaboy, Aaron Carter). The first paragraphs of Wikipedia articles about public figures should never have a current-event bias. I am happy to rewrite the article to be more consistent with other musicians, but the label I applied in the interim is absolutely appropriate. Neutralpov (talk) 13:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The examples you gave indicate how the article may contravene style guides - they do not explain how the article is written as an advertisement. -- Neil N   talk to me  13:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, as counter-examples to your assertion see Kesha and Miley Cyrus. -- Neil N   talk to me  13:36, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood. Four out of the five articles I checked have info about recent albums in the lede. -- Neil N   talk to me  13:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok NeilN. Lets decide on a fair criteria. If anybody can name name apects that the Souljaboy, Aaron Carter, Kesha, Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood articles have in common with which the current Justin Bieber article seems out-of-line, we can use that as a concrete springboard for continuing the discussion. Until then I'll remove the label. Neutralpov (talk) 14:32, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, sounds good to me, thanks. -- Neil N   talk to me  14:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

BBC iPlayer
Don't know if this worth including but apparently, Justin Bieber is on the radio and loads of people are tuning in by iPlayer streaming... causing iPlayer to go down. It's been down for approximately the last half hour at least I think. I've never heard of Justin Bieber but searching for "iplayer" on Twitter seems to point the finger at this guy's fans- I just wanted to watch the second episode of Dreamland, the latest Doctor

Oneiros Icelus (talk) 20:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

birthday !
justin biebers birthday is march 1 1994 ! 1 1994 ! He said so in a lot of interviews on youtube !if you want to see if im correct just go to youtube and type justin bieber interviews > to warn you there are alot of interviews but if you watch some you will find one where he says his birthday is march 1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinbieberfan101 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I just watched about four interviews, and it was ten minutes or so. None of them mentioned a birthday, and I could bring myself to watch any more. Seems like this needs some further looking-into, however - there were a lot of comments that said March 1. None said March 14. Obviously these are not reliable sources, but MuchMusic might be mistaken.  Tan
 * I've seen a youtube video where he claims he is sixteen (and it is not yet the 14th March) - he blows a party whistle at his birthday. Vegetationlife (talk) 15:38, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

&#124;  39  21:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC) I actually have a video here where he says his birthday is March 1st : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5kpJwPTwIU&feature=channel_page
 * That sounds pretty clear. I'll change it. Liquidluck (talk) 16:34, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, are we sure it's him? Tan   &#124;   39  16:37, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted the edit for three reasons. 1) How do we know it is him? 2)YouTube videos aren't generally reliable sources and 3)We have an actual reliable source that says the March 14 not the 1st. MS   (Talk | Contributions)  16:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Most reliable sources indicate March, but the confliction seems to be between March 1 and March 14. I think we should just leave "March 1994" for now, until a more reliable source can be found. &mdash; CIS (talk | stalk) 04:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you had looked better you would have seen the link to the full video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu42hWwXquM&feature=channel_page - Justin Bieber at the united artist theatre, which is obviously him. His birthday is march 1st. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.85.78.231 (talk) 21:09, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I have heard many people say his birthday is March 14. He couldn't have possibly been born on september 28 '95 because he has said many times he is 15. that birthdate would make him just turned 14. UltimatesocCer (talk) 16:03, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone changed that comment way after the fact. The original comment above said March 14. Nothing to see here. Tan   &#124;   39  16:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

In fact the original comment, which I have restored per this diff, said March 1st. Please don't change other editor's comments. -- Timberframe (talk) 00:03, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

New External Link
Can an external link to Justin's facebook be added? http://www.facebook.com/JustinBieber If you need proof that it's his, then watch this: http://www.youtube.com/user/kidrauhl#p/u/12/7U9CKtcIwwk

Tyweena (talk) 01:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅. I've added the Facebook link. &mdash; CIS (talk | stalk) 20:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Personal life
Does anyone know anything about his personal life? UltimatesocCer (talk) 16:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, it doesn't matter if anyone knows anything about it. Remember that all material added needs to be sourced to a reliable third party, and needs to be relevant to the article. Tan   &#124;   39  16:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Justin Bieber's birthday is March 1, 1994. He cleared that up on an interview on Youtube. (someone stated that earlier) He is 15 years old! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.134.214.20 (talk) 02:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Justin Bieber's song "one time" actually peaked at number 14 on the US pop chart. 11/20/09 To prove it, you can follow this link. http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/pop-songs?begin=11&order=position —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.61.115.227 (talk) 00:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC) he is single AND HOT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.14.88 (talk) 23:33, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Long Island Riot
I think it merits a mention that a concert even of his had a riot resulting in numberous injuries. Five people were taken to hospitals for minor injuries. A VP from his label was arrested on various charges. After police told Bieber that he might be culpable as well, Bieber responded by telling his fans through Twitter "They are not allowing me to come into the mall". I think this incident warrants a mention under the tour information. Here is a link to the Associated Press story.

Tween Justin Bieber fans lose control at LI mall

17.232.95.61 (talk) 04:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC) I agree
 * Done. Edkollin (talk) 05:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The following should also be noted: (a report from a young girl at the scene/event After it was cancelled that is when "everyone started freaking out and pushing together, and that's when it got really scary." And other attendees say that cops Tasered one girl and jumped all over another! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justin.bieber.is.so.great (talk • contribs) 12:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Hoax
Macarion has been repeatedly putting a plausible hoax that the subject of this article is dead. For the avoidance of doubt, Justin Bieber did not die on the 3rd of January in a shoot out with the NYPD outside a bar he had been denied entry to. Dolive21 (talk) 07:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Justin Bieber has confirmed on Twitter before the rumors that he was on vacation in the Bahamas, and still is, preparing for a performance. Candyo32 (talk) 22:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

yeah right
i highly doubt hes 15 show me real evidence —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clfan91 (talk • contribs) 05:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

You can check his youtube account, or multiple websites. BelieVerr (talk) 23:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I have a theory, and I am actually really serious about this. He is acually somewhere from 10 to 13 years old. But Usher found his video and thought he had talent. But no one wants to buy a twelve year olds album. So, they told everyone that he is 15 so that his music would apply to the target age group. I don't know what I can do about this theory, but I really think it's correct. I could use some of your opinions. Thanks. Glee105 (talk) 05:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I heard on TMZ that paparazzi saw him driving a Ferrari, I watched the preview but I miss the main thing! I think he's 16 already... Josh (talk) 07:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

What does everyone think of my theory. Also, he just turned 16, he couldn't be legally driving a ferarri by now. Glee105 (talk) 03:16, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Provide reliable sources. Otherwise, no use discussing it. -- Neil N   talk to me  04:52, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Justin Bieber drove Sean Kingston's Ferrari at a Miami pre superbowl party in January, 2010.

He did not have a learner's permit at that time so he wasn't driving legally. http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2010/02/09/car-s-just-the-thing-115875-22028979/ is a link that supports this, except it doesn't mention that Sean Kingston owned the Ferrari. prestonlewis (talk —Preceding undated comment added 07:38, 29 March 2010 (UTC).

I just read that mirror link, and it clearly states, "The singer, who can drive in FLorida as a learner", which would imply he DID have a learners permit at the time, so how does that support the fact he wasn't driving legally? Lmcgregoruk (talk) 23:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Year of birth
Could someone who gives a damn about this kid fix his year of birth? The intro and infobox disagree. According to them, he's either 12 or 15. I looked at both the sources and while they agree on a date, they don't mention a year at all. I'd investigate further but I really don't care that much... Dismas |(talk) 03:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * People always vandalize the page and change his age. He is 15. Candyo32 (talk) 03:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST
please add: "2010 GMTV himself" to justin bieber filmography  Coolguy3000 (talk) 20:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC) moved from user talk page by  Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas   324° 9' 30" NET   21:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Please provide reliable sources for your suggestion. And since this page is semi-protected, please reply here. Thanks! Samwb123Please read 01:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Promotional appearance should not be listed under filmography. Only television series, movies, etc. Candyo32 (talk) 01:43, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Rumored death
I noticed a few people on twitter quoted that Justin died but when I looked for Google news rumor I noticed this was just a rumor.--JBadger169 (talk) 12:21, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Justin's death was a large-scale hoax developed by FunnyJunk.com users "for the lulz" and was picked up by CNN, the hoax was later revealed by a film blog that called it a profit scheme, although this was only an internet meme reference (1. 2. ??? 3. PROFIT!) from South Park (knowyourmeme). The hoax was distributed through YouTube comments. --Gert7 (talk) 17:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Age
Justin Bieber turned 16 on March 1, 2010 which is today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.243.106 (talk) 22:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

There is not sufficient evidence that 1994 is a correct birth year. Evidence has pointed further towards him in an age falsification scandal than anything else. The sources for the 1994 birth year aren't good ones. For the time being, it is for the best if we leave it at March 1 with the year as unknown. Barneystimpleton (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What is wrong with the source? Beach drifter (talk) 00:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * After a little searching I can't find anything to suggest that he was born at any time other than 1994. I can't find any evidence of an 'age scandal'. The burden is on you here to source your theory, or else we need to revert to the sourced version. Beach drifter (talk) 00:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * And there are no credible sources that 1994 is accurate. Leave it as is until there's a good enough source for 94. Barneystimpleton (talk) 02:29, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say the source that is there is fine. I'd also say that his official website is a pretty darn good source. I just want to know why you think the sources are bad, and why you think he has done some sort of 'age falsification', which I can find no evidence of. Beach drifter (talk) 02:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * 'Leaving as it is' would be leaving as it was before you started making unilateral changes. Beach drifter (talk) 02:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem right now is that the cited source only says his birthday is on March 1; it does not give a year of birth. Where does the year of birth come from? —C.Fred (talk) 03:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Article is from Feb-2010. 2010 - 16 = 1994. -- Neil N   talk to me  03:19, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Correction: the source cited in the body of the article only says 1 March with no year of birth; the source cited in the infobox makes it clear that his birthday is 1 March 1994. Based on that, I've changed the footnote in the prose and removed the dubious tag that I had just added. I see reliable sourcing. —C.Fred (talk) 03:20, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Other sources    Candyo32 (talk) 03:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Fred and Candy. Beach drifter (talk) 03:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Spelling and Grammar
Someone please fix the grammatical error in the intro: "which made Bieber gave Bieber the highest debut by a new artist of the year". It should read "which gave Bieber the highest debut by a new artist of the year".
 * ✅ Thanks. -- Neil N   talk to me  11:59, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I fixed some spelling errors in the opening as well. Neosiber (talk) 11:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Associated acts
It has been asserted that Usher is an associated act. Per the instructions for Infobox musical artist, "This field is for professional relationships with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career. This field can include, for example, any of the following: For individuals: groups of which he or she has been a member; Other acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together."

When has Bieber collaborated with Usher on multiple occasions? No collaborations are mentioned at all in the text of article. —C.Fred (talk) 04:01, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * See Justin Bieber discography & My World (EP)
 * As far as I'm concerned, Usher should be simply removed. Over twenty people are credited as helping write songs for Bieber; unless a source can be found that explicitly says that Usher is an "associated act" or is literally a "collaborator", it shouldn't be there. Tan   &#124;   39  04:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Usher was not just a writer on the albums, he featured on a track. Candyo32 (talk) 04:21, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note that the criteria referenced by C. Fred doesn't say, "for artists featured on other artists' tracks". If this is going to be here, it needs better sourcing. Tan   &#124;   39  04:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Or certainly not for a single track. By way of example, consider Paul McCartney. Michael Jackson is listed as an associated artist, because they collaborated on multiple occasions. By contrast, Stevie Wonder is not an associated artist, even though McCartney and Wonder released a single together. —C.Fred (talk) 04:36, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Usher signed Justin Bieber to the Island Def Jam label. Justin Bieber moved to Atlanta, where Usher lives, and is considered to be a protege of Ushers.  Usher has appeared with Justin on several TV shows and is in many of his videos.  There is a great deal of internet references that support the argument that Justin Bieber is an associate of Usher.  One link is:  http://www.billboard.com/#/news/usher-introduces-teen-singer-justin-bieber-1003966989.story

—prestonlewis (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:33, 29 March 2010 (UTC).

Name
I deleted the statement that Justin Biebers name was originally Alex Lawrence. Both of the supporting citations didn't mention that. Justin's father is named Jeremy Bieber and lives in Winnipeg, Manitoba. There doesn't seem to be any web sites that support the argument that Justin Bieber was born under a different name.prestonlewis''' (talk —Preceding undated comment added 07:43, 29 March 2010 (UTC).

Article suggestion by User:Saldon
The following was placed on my talk page by Saldon. -- Neil N   talk to me  14:38, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't seem to edit the discussion page of the Bieber article, and you have, so I thought I'd share this with you to add to the talk page. Basically, I think it should be noted in some way that Bieber does not write the majority of his music, as is implied by the article. In fact, most of his most popular songs were written by others, According to the THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF COMPOSERS, AUTHORS AND PUBLISHERS website (see the list of writers for the song One Time here: http://ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=750420905&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=30&start=1) Songs written by Bieber include Common Denominator and that one about his dad that I forget the name of. Heres a list of more of his songs:

http://ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=JUSTIN%20BIEBER&search_in=a&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=30&start=1
 * Thanks  --Saldon (talk) 06:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Several artists do not write their own songs. This is irrelevant and has no need to be placed on the article Second of all, Bieber does write the majority of his songs now, receiving co-writing credits on all songs on My World 2.0. ASCAP doesn't list all of his songs. Candyo32 (talk) 17:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Removal of content
I've cleaned up a lot of non-neutral point of view, unreferenced, poorly referenced and non-noteworthy topics. In future it would be beneficial to only list notable awards an artist has attained, rather than unreferenced statements about US chart placements, which do not hold any relevance to viewers outside the United States of America. -- Pump me  up  12:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've reverted the edits, due to the fact that I will go back and clean the info. up. Also, if you think some of this information is non-noteworthy, go check GA's like Britney Spears which list the same-esque information. Candyo32 (talk) 12:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:REV and other policies/essays. It's not done to simply revert other's edits and promise to do it your way. It isn't your article. You are welcome to improve upon other's edits, however please do not revert them unless they are vandalism without discussion first. -- Pump me  up  12:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think there's two issues in play here. First is referencing: statements about any article's subject must be backed up by reliable sources. If a statement is not sourced, it can (or even should) be removed. Depending on the statement, it might be able to remain in the article with a "citation needed" tag.
 * The second issue is the scope. The US market is the largest one in the music industry (and I'm saying that based on sales volumes and the fact that European sales certifications are country by country), so it's arguably relevant to mention it when talking about any artist that charts in the US. Further, Bieber has based himself in the US, so it's effectively is home country for charting purposes. Finally, world perspective should be maintained in the article: if he hits #1 in the UK and the US, mention both in the article. In the tables in his discography article, chart placements in all countries with reliable charts should be mentioned.
 * So, on the most part, I agree with Candyo's statement that the information generally should be in the article, as other articles across the music project mention similar information. However, Pumpmeup makes a valid point that the information must be verifiable. —C.Fred (talk) 14:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have since cleaned up some of the information, and every fact should have a verifiable source. Candyo32 (talk) 14:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the badly sourced section in the opening that says he is gay should be removed, neither of the links for it actually connect to any real articles.Neosiber (talk) 11:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's since been removed. Please feel free to delete such poorly referenced controversial information on sight; if it is true, the contributor can add it back with correct refs. Correcting BLP vios is an exception to the WP:3RR law, so don't worry about that. liquidluck ✽ talk  16:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Justin performance cancelled
Should we mention in the article that Justin's concert in Sydney this morning was cancelled by police? -- sk8er5000 yeah? 22:28, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * copied from User talk:Sk8er5000 (by Sk8er5000)


 * Can't comment there, so here I am!
 * Notability is always the thing, re his cancelled 'concert'. How many times has this happened? At least twice now. I noticed the US report was a bit 'buried' in his career section, possibly(guessing) so it does not get "undue weight"? More notable because "manager, Scooter Braun, was arrested" and "Island Records senior vice-president, got charged"? Sounds lke we had more turn up down here, though such figures are probably guesses. According to news reports people came from Perth, Western Australia for this event!


 * A "Controversy" section may be an idea (I like to have subheadings to find things easier) but may get reverted as above, for 'undue weight' . On the other hand if this is happening frequently, and reliable sources are cited?


 * From the noise I heard it seems unlikely anyone could have heard him over the screaming!(POV). Saw him on the news, and he was badmouthing Vegemite! :-o (Well, at least said he didn't like it.) But he liked Jaffas. (Likes /Dislike section? ;-] )


 * TV news said 14 were treated at his 'concert'. Is that a 'notable' number? Nb. According to his article (from 01:03 to 2:55, 26 April 2010) he was born on March 69th! And what happens when his voice breaks?
 * --220.101.28.25 (talk) 04:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * His voice is breaking he talked what is happening and it is now in article Edkollin (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Not the only performance to be canceled. The only reason the other ones were included is because of the arrests. But other information is not encylclopedic and shouldn't be included. Candyo32 (talk) 11:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm likewise not convinced that the Sydney incident is notable. Yes, a concert was cancelled, and eight girls were sent to the hospital, but I'm not sure this is part of a larger pattern. The AP story doesn't suggest any wrongdoing by his manager. If it becomes a bigger pattern, or if Sydney police were to find anything to lay charges over, then it should be mentioned. —C.Fred (talk) 02:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Several injured and dozens treated for hyperventilation is notable. With two incidents it should not be buried in the career section. Before I read the talk page I created a "Crowd Control Problems" subsection to the career section. The use of "controversy" sections is discouraged by Wikipedia. The "controversy" does not involve Bieber himself. There is legal issues involving his manager in the Long Island incident and some controversy in Australia where parents are being criticized having letting there kids out at 3AM. I did not add the parents issue to my entry of the Australian incident because I want to see how it plays out. Edkollin (talk) 18:51, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that wait-and-see is a reasonable approach to take. If more incidents come up, then that points toward needing coverage in the article. At that point, it might be worth either presenting draft text here (or a subpage of the talk page?) to see how much text there is and how it can be supported by reliable sources. —C.Fred (talk) 22:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well someone has disagreed with your advice and already stuck it in the article. I however disagree and don't really think these mentionings are a big deal and unencyclopedic. I also don't understand what his comment about his voice has to do with anything. Candyo32 (talk) 23:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * How about an "image" section? It could include information on both concerts as an example of his popularity. liquidluck ✽ talk  00:42, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That is a very good idea, I've been thinking about expanding the article for quite a while but haven't brought myself to do it. Not only could it be including the popularity/crowd control, but voice and musical influences, etc. Candyo32 (talk) 00:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I added few paragraphs of image and made crowd control an level three header beneath it. I'm not sure whether to leave it a level 3 or to integrate it with the image section. liquidluck ✽ talk  06:45, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we can have a proper vote on this. The cancelled concert in Sydney was a big deal, since it was being organised by "Sunrise", the most popular breakfast TV show in Australia, and it created a level of excitement and hype not seen since decades ago. The theft of his hat and related extortion attempt (which is hilarious due to its sheer stupidity) in New Zealand should also be mentioned.(Huey45 (talk) 12:20, 28 April 2010 (UTC))
 * * Canceled Concert: Keep for reasons discussed above.
 * * New Zealand Airport: Add Notable in that it has been mentioned by BBC,NY Times, LA Times CNN etc. Not more then one sentence in that nobody has been injured or  arrested
 * * Vocals: Keep. I oppose deleting this as strongly as as I have ever opposed a     deletion proposal. His voice is central to his career Edkollin (talk) 21:04, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

We usually don't vote on Wikipedia. I think the whole Crowd control problems section needs to be trimmed substantially per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM. This is supposed to be a biography of Bieber, not a list of things that happened on the latest tour. Is the hat incident really going to be notable two months from now? -- Neil N   talk to me  13:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * A lot of articles I have been involved ended up with a vote. Since I add comments to my votes which has been common in the votes I have been involved, with we are also discussing the matter. In this case there was discussion before a vote request. Like any form of discussion sometimes votes are helpful sometimes not. As for recentism I have never figured out how to judge that, I usually "guess" wrong. In making the editor take a guess this guideline contradicts the most of the other guidelines that proscribe letting reliable sources make these decisions. I have found that sometimes time will straighten these things out. Articles become bloated, an editor will go on a cleanup mission and by that time the "what seemed big at the time but not now" gets wiped. Edkollin (talk) 20:31, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * People are going to remember him for the stolen hat for a long time, especially in New Zealand and Australia. (Huey45 (talk) 03:57, 30 April 2010 (UTC))
 * See WP:NOTCRYSTAL. When there is long lasting coverage of the incident then it should be put in. -- Neil N   talk to me  04:43, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

When I orginally started this discussion, the hat and mother having bowled over hadn't happened yet. My opinion on all this and the article is that it meets the noteabillity guideline, and thus worthy of inclusion.


 * The Sunrise crush got mentioned by Billboard magazine and Entertainment Wise, just to name two. Several other websites, including the New York Times, cover that extra security has been put on at Auckland after what happened in Sydney.


 * Auckland has also been mentioned by MTV and the Toronto Star

Justin himself has also responded to both incidents on Twitter. While I understand some of these are only blogs, these are major international sites based in the USA/Canada, showing that WP:RS is met. However, despite all this, I also see WP:NOTNEWS as a problem. I'm leaning towards netural, as this is now the third Justin incident, but adding this may make the article too recentist. However, I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks. Regards -- sk8er5000 yeah? 07:28, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * With Bieber currently being so popular and on tour, every incident is going to be covered by reliable sources and, while meeting the notability guideline, perhaps should be judged by the WP:NTEMP clause. If editors really think this material should be added then maybe we should look at creating a sub-article covering the tour like what was done for Madonna's Sticky & Sweet Tour. -- Neil N   talk to me  13:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * However, this is just a simple promotional tour for the album, not to be confused with this summer's My World Tour. Candyo32 (talk) 19:36, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

English variant
It's come up in the article with whether Bieber's concerts were cancelled or canceled. As Bieber is Canadian, it stands that the Canadian variant of English should be used in the article. On quick glance, I don't see any other hot items that would say the article is already in American English. Does anybody see one, or is there a compelling reason to change the article to American English? —C.Fred (talk) 15:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Should use Canadian spelling and date order for a Canadian native Edkollin (talk) 20:41, 29 April 2010 (UTC). Should use in sourcing also even if source is American.
 * Date order doesn't seem to be an issue. A quick check of Canadian media shows they use mmmm d, yyyy formatting. —C.Fred (talk) 20:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * From Wikipedia:
 * "The Canadian Standards Association has adopted the ISO 8601 yyyy-MM-dd (e.g., 2009-06-09) date format; however, the European dd/MM/(yy)yy (e.g., 09/06/(20)09) date format is still widely known, especially in Québec because of its cultural links to France[citation needed]. The American MM/dd/(yy)yy (e.g., 06/09/(20)09) date format is also known because of the influences from the United States. In more casual use, the 3 different date formats can cause ambiguity. For example, this all-numeric date format "01/02/03" can be 3 different expanded date forms. It can be British "01 February 2003", American "January 02, 2003", and some might even think it could be ISO 8601  for "2001 February 03", even though the ISO standard always uses four digits for the year. Today, people are more exposed to the American date format and the ISO 8601 date format due to the updated technology. The ISO 8601 date format is an easy date format to understand because it always starts from the biggest number first and then goes down to the smallest number last, year(2009)-month(06)-day(09), and the format always includes the date with a 4-digit year, so it is free from ambiguity.


 * In Canada, all 3 date formats are used, “yyyy-MM-dd or yyyy MMMM dd (big-endian)”, “dd/MM/(yy)yy or dd MMMM yyyy (little-endian)” and “MM/dd/(yy)yy or MMMM dd, yyyy (middle-endian)”. All short date formats should display leading zeros for any numbers below 10. The separator is usually a hyphen or a slash. Expanded date formats may display leading zeros (e.g., 2009 June 9) or may not (e.g., 2009 June 9) for numbers below 10. They may also include the weekday name. The ISO 8601 expanded date form would look like “2009 June 09, Tuesday” the British expanded date form would look like “Tuesday, 09 June 2009” and the American expanded date form would look like “Tuesday, June 09, 2009”. There may also be abbreviations for words in any date format (e.g., 2009-Jun-09, Tue). Weekday name and month abbreviations are usually the first 3 or 4 letters of the word (Weekday abbreviated names: Sun, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat—Months: Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec). Calendars mostly show Sunday as the first day of the week.


 * The ISO 8601 and the British date formats are pronounced using the "day month year" date format. For example, “2009 June 09, Tuesday” and “Tuesday, 09 June 2009” are pronounced “Tuesday, the ninth of June two thousand nine”.[citation needed] The American date format is pronounced using the "month day year" format. For example, “Tuesday, June 09, 2009” is pronounced “Tuesday, June ninth, two thousand nine”.
 * Changed to the official but won't edit war if somebody wants to change it back. Edkollin (talk) 21:04, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:MOSDATE and WP:STRONGNAT are the relevant style guidelines. Specifically, "Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation. For the U.S. this is month before day; for most others it is day before month. Articles related to Canada may use either format consistently." Since the dates are already in US order, and since Bieber's ties to the US are stronger than to the UK/rest of world, I've restored the dates to month-day-year format. —C.Fred (talk) 22:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Press Coverage of Article
Just thought I'd let people know there is a Vanity Fair article regarding edits made to this page, available here: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/04/whats-the-point-of-having-a-source-if-youre-just-going-to-pretend-it-says-something-else-wikipedia-editors-and-justin-bieber-fans-battle-for-control-of-justin-bieber-wikipedia-page.html

Users noted in the article are Barneystimpleton, Bdb484, Bradley0110, Matt0401, Pumpmeup and Candyo32 in order of mention. -- Pump me  up  01:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just restored this. Please respect talk page guidelines and don't remove other's comments. -- Pump me  up  12:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

“debut” overkill
The second paragraph of the intro needs to be reworked for style. The word debut is used 5 times:

''”His debut single, ‘One Time’, was released worldwide during 2009, and charted within the top thirty in over ten countries. It was followed by his debut release, ‘My World’ on November 17, 2009, which was certified platinum in the United States, which at the time gave Bieber the highest debut by a new artist in the year, and made Bieber the first artist to have seven songs from a debut album chart on Billboard's Hot 100 chart.[6] His first full studio release, ‘My World 2.0’ was released on March 23, 2010, debuting at number one and within the top ten of several countries. It was preceded by the international hit song, ‘Baby’.”''

The debut single was followed by his debut release: How many first performances can there be?

“Debut by a new artist”: Again, a bit redundant. If he were an established artist it wouldn't be his first performance.--DVD-junkie | talk | 14:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Justin Bieber Ft. Lady Gaga
I know that Justin Bieber is supposely doing a song with Lady Gaga. Justin Bieber has hinted it on April Fools Day on Twitter although the link just goes to a Rick Roll song. There is also a rumor going around that they are doing a song together since Lady Gaga had meet Justin Bieber twice, once during the Hati Earthquake and another time I don't know where. Does anyone have anymore information on this rumor? --Nick 22:54, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Smalln


 * If you can find sources, we can add it.--ILoveSky (T | C) 11:30, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't asking to put it in the article, I was just trying to get more info about it, I wanna know if it will ever happen, I think those 2 would be great!--Nick 22:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smalln (talk • contribs)
 * Have you ever considered the connection of April Fools Day and Rick Roll Song? Earboxer (talk) 22:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Criticism
We need a criticism section, a lot of people hate him.--ILoveSky (T | C) 00:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * No need for a section about claims that people don't like him make, due to irrelevancy and more than likely bad sources. Candyo32 (talk) 00:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we should put that section in unless he did something bad like wrote a racist song or something. We need facts in there! not opinions! I happen to know whats going on since I am on twitter @Gaga4Belieber--Nick 22:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize, that hating someone qualifies as criticism.--DVD-junkie | talk | 02:40, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Criticism is judging someone, calling someone gay is judging someone which is critism --Nick 12:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC) Smalln
 * Unless there are real music journalists/critics that pan his music or anti-Bieber sentiment becomes large enough that it receives wide coverage by reliable sources it is not encyclopedic. Here are some music examples of encyclopedic worthy criticism . Emo, Disco, The Knack Search for "Knuke the Knack".Edkollin (talk) 19:15, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think he is heavily criticised by so many people, look the metacritic page of My World 2.0 http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/bieberjustin/myworld20

Perhaps instead of having an 'image' heading, there should be a 'reception' heading, outlining the general reaction to his music including the extensive ridiculing produced by the public as well as the screaming fangirls. Racooon (talk) 17:46, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

German great-grandfather
For everybody who don't want to believe: http://www.focus.de/kultur/musik/musik-justin-bieber-mag-deutsche-maedels_aid_510499.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Md.edt (talk • contribs) 10:20, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Justin Bieber's origin
Born in Canada, but current resident of Atlanta, Georgia. For those of you who aren't familiar with ATL, it is a state among the United States. Justin Bieber was born in Canada, but resides in America, thus making him Canadian-American


 * You can go in any country and reside with a passport. Than that does not mean you have citizenship. Candyo32 (talk) 22:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * He still has property in Stratford so no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RealPerson2010 (talk • contribs) 17:50, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Pp-protected
I think that the template should be inserted for clarity on whether the page can be freely edited. Iam cool  234  04:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It is, but in small form. All that's visible is the padlock at top right and not the larger message box. —C.Fred (talk) 13:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Conserversy
Apparantly He needs a slap according to Oceanup, They is some nasty news going around that Justin Bieber told someone to "Don't Fucking Touch me" Check out @Oceanup on Twitter they have a link that says Justin Bieber needs a slap. I'll see if I can put a link in later, but perhaps we should put that in the page?? Anyone agree? Smalln --Nick 14:21, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Like said before, gossip and unverifiable fancruft does not have a place on Wikipedia. Candyo32 (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Protection?
Seriously, just semi-protect it. That will discourage 90% of trolls or fanboys, and the admins can just revert or ban the rest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whsazdfhnbfxgnh (talk • contribs) 05:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Different picture
I'd like to recommend using a File:Justin_Bieber.jpg different picture. I realise hand gestures mean all kinds of different things all over the world but it would be better to use a picture that does not contain an offensive hand gesture even if it is unintentional. -- Horkana (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears this is the only free photo currently available . – xeno talk 15:08, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * All the images of Justin seen here are available for us to upload to Wikipedia. They're all from the same event by the same author. Is there any one of these that is preferred? By the way, I am the user that initially chose and uploaded the current picture with the hand gesture—I apologize if it is offensive to anyone. &mdash; CIS (talk | stalk) 14:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How does this image look to everyone?. &mdash; CIS (talk | stalk) 21:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC) [[Image:Justin Bieber 2.png|right|thumb]]

Oppose - Sorry but the current image is better quality, there is no need to change it. ..:CK:.. ( talk 2 me ) 03:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * To be honest, while I appreciate CrazyInSane's provisioning of other possible images, I think the current image is better and more representative of the subject. – xeno talk 12:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Also, there's nothing offensive about it. - Donald Duck (talk) 03:24, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, why not just have both images in the article somewhere? There's only one in total at the moment. All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 21:55, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, that hand gesture IS offensive in many places in the world; however, whether things are offensive is not really any of our concerns. Wikipedia is not censored &rArr;  SWAT Jester    Son of the Defender  15:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * True, I think having both pictures in the article is fine, but they're both from the same event and he's wearing the same clothes, so it's almost redundant. &mdash; CIS (talk | stalk) 16:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's good for an article of this size to have at least two pictures (or even three). All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The current picture has Jusin Bieber giving the finger, which is considered an obscene gesture in UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. --Joshua Issac (talk) 17:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Is he making an obscene gesture, any more than Winston Churchill did early on in WWII? Or is he making a gesture which is interpreted as obscene in parts of the world? I'm inclined to say it's the latter, that the gesture is not made intentionally. —C.Fred (talk) 18:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * V sign says that the insulting version of the gesture is the one with the palm inwards, unlike Churchill's "victory" sign. I should not have said it like it was intentional.--Joshua Issac (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Wikipedia is not censored, changing the image would be censoring. -- sk8er5000 yeah? 02:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Why show an image that could be seen as offensive when it could be replaced by one which is less likely to be offensive? --Joshua Issac (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter Wikipedia is not censored. Candyo32 (talk) 01:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I know Wikipedia is not censored but that policy is not a license to be a jerk either, and Wikipedia also has policies advising you to consider WP:WORLDVIEW. Given that this article is of special interest to teens a little cultural sensitivity would go a long way. Choosing a different image from a selection of similar images is hardly censorship and the other image would still be in Wikimedia Commons. I do accept that most readers will realise no offense was intended by Bieber, but I half wondered if some British joker had picked the image intentionally, knowing most Americans wouldn't get it. Hand gestures are a minefield, but I think the pointing gesture is not offensive but I suppose I should have suggested the image be cropped to a head and shoulders shot. CrazyInSane thanks for showing consideration and being thoughtful about the suggestion. -- Horkana (talk) 17:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)