User talk:Volksjäger162

September 2013
Welcome to my talk page. As you can see, this is 2013 September talk page section. --Volksjäger162 (talk) 21:21, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Please note that the block in this case was imposed by Future Perfect at Sunrise. Any appeal of this block should be directed first to him. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 16:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Check my large argument at bottom of my talk page. Hope this will help investigation and mistakes will be fixed. --Volksjäger (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This fact is one, who amazed me most last time. This is huge mistake. What was reason, that you think I am sock? Here is only one, that I was discussing days after in same place, where user caused trouble, so they thought I was sockpuppet. Please use usercheck as well. This is not enough evidence to make me blocked. This is mistake and I want this problem solved soon. Thank you --Volksjäger (talk) 17:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Error and mistake, answers given
Just checked this: Sockpuppet_investigations/Obitauri So I got answers for everything: Comparing my point on Armenian or Georgian alphabets to Obitauri's point. People can have shared point of view, as here are sources from Ivane Javakhishvili, I base my argument on his work, there is nothing amazing, that me and user Obitaury may have same point of view on exact subject. Edit on battle of Didgori: I am Georgian and here is nothing wrong that I am interested in my country's history. I put Georgian estimates in it.

Checkuser can be used. I can 100% tell you we have not same ip (as I know I am not sockpuppet). You can check it as well.

"I was just in the process of starting a SPI on the same grounds. We have a 'new' user who has dived straight in to edit-wars over the same material that Obitauri was involved with - see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Volksjäger162 and Talk:Georgian alphabet, where the 'new' user makes exactly the same arguments as the old one. And note that the user-name 'Volksjäger162' is a reference to the Heinkel He 162 Volksjäger, an aircraft from Nazi Germany - Obitauri was blocked for (amongst other things) adding a userbox saying he supported National Socialism to his user page. Coincidence? AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)"

So reason why we may have shared ideas, Obitauri seems to be Georgian and I am Georgian as well. Georgians care about their culture and we learn same about it. This is reason we may have shared look on this subject. I may have used same argument, but not exactly same argument. As you noticed, I used legit language to discuss and also I just do same what other Georgian will do. About my name and Obitauri's connections with nationalism. I believe in god and I do not like politics. War crime is unacceptable for me. About my name, Volksjäger162. Volksjäger means "people's fighter". 162 is number of He-162 Volksjäger, German WW2 plane, which is my favorite jet fighter. Of course if he supports National-Socialism, it does not means I am his sockpuppet, cause my username connects with German jet from WW2.

"""""[Volksjäger162 claims he speaks German (as his nickname also suggests). Obitauri was calling himself "Nazi" and had written several low-importance articles about Denmark in Georgian wiki (some of those articles one can find only in top wikipedias (en, de, es, fr). I guess Obitauri was a resident of Denmark, and could speak German as well. The way the two speak is really different, but it is hard to beleive that Volksjäger162, who said he signed to wiki few hours ago) knows that much about wiki rules, etc. Looking at his page is enough for understanding he is anything but a new user. - Wrote by Хаченци  ]""""""

I do not know who Obitauri is, but as I see, he seems to be Georgian and as you claim, he may have some German relations. Of course I speak some German. Millions of people speaks German around the world. Does this means all of them are sockpuppets of Obitauri because he claims to be Nationalist because majority of "Nazis" were Germans? That makes no sense for me. Of course I am new on wikipedia, but I have old experience from other language wikipedia, I was IP editor once. Also I join community after I read rules, after I investigate it. It is my specific characteristic.

I just used Editor Interaction Analyzer. Here are 3 articles only, where both, me and user Obitauri did edits. 2 of those are related to Georgia, I am Georgian, Obitauri seems to be Georgian as well. Its nothing news, that 2 Georgian may share their point in some conditions. Reason I went on Armenian alphabet article, is that Armenian sources with support of foreign sources, attributed creation of Georgian alphabet to Mesrop Mashtots, who is also creator of Armenian alphabet as well. I went on Armenian alphabet article. I found out later, that oldest script of Armenian dates back to 9-10th century. Then I started discussion. Results

About Edit warring, reason I changed "Widely believed" is weasel. Other user reverted it before me with Weasel reason, I used same reason later, because user Хаченци still reverted edit of this user, after Weasel reason was given. I was discussing on talk page, did not started edit warring, I just reverted article back to correct version, which had support from WP Rules, exactly from "Weasel" and I still started discussion.

Whoever Obitauri is, I am not his sockpuppet. You can compare our actions, as well. Here are few similarities. Thank you and sorry for taking your time. Hope this will be fixed soon. --Volksjäger (talk) 18:02, 11 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not going to pass judgment one way or the other regarding your appeal of your block (that will be someone else's job). However, I do want to make you aware that the CheckUser policy on the English Wikipedia forbids checks in cases where an editor is asking to have his/her own IP addresses checked in an effort to disprove a sockpuppetry allegation.  It was decided, some time ago, that such checks are generally not helpful — mostly because there are too many well-known tricks for spoofing one's location or ISP — and our CheckUsers are simply not allowed to do this sort of check.  You might not agree with this policy (and I'm not really sure I completely agree with it myself), but it is the policy, and you will get nowhere at all by trying to ask for a CheckUser to run a check on you.  —  Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 18:19, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * How about if you read what I say here. I gave entire answers, which I think is enough to make me unblocked. This is just error, this will be larger mistake to keep me blocked. So if its someone else's job, you can send this to person, whose job is to review appeals. --Volksjäger (talk) 18:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If this problem is not solved, you will lose editor. Then I will have to contribute other language Wikipedia. For me, I prefer to edit English one, but I got blocked, I am sure this is one of greatest errors and mistakes on Wikipedia... --Volksjäger (talk) 18:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, I (Richwales) am not going to make a decision regarding your block appeal. The decision to label you a sockpuppet, and to block you on that basis, was made by a different administrator (Future Perfect at Sunrise) — and the right of first review of your appeal should go to him.  Future Perfect at Sunrise has been made aware of your block appeal (I advised him about it on his talk page earlier today), and I assume he will respond in the next day or so.  It is unfortunate when we lose any editor — including Obitauri, and including you (if a mistake was made and you are in fact a different person from Obitauri) — but the only real question right now is whether you are, or are not, Obitauri operating under a different account, and the only person who I expect is going to evaluate that question right now is the admin who blocked this account.  —  Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 18:45, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I will wait this Administrator. Thanks for attention. --Volksjäger (talk) 18:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Blocking admin's comment: I find the WP:DUCK similarity between the two accounts so great I do not expect this block to be overturned, and I certainly won't undo it myself. Volksjäger was created just two days after Obitauri was blocked, and started continuing the same tendentious argument exactly where Obitauri left off. I do not believe the argument about the invention of the Armenian alphabet is a standard, commonly held nationalist meme that many Georgian editors would be likely to share; it was a rather uncommon, individual WP:POINT maneuvre that happened to grow out of Obitauri's tendentious agenda elsewhere. Both editors also display an affinity with German/Nazi/militarist ideas (Obitauri through his "National socialist" userbox, Volksjäger through his striking choice of militarist-themed username. Both users write the same kind of poor English, at much the same level of (non-)proficiency. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:53, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you even read my whole argument here... I was on wikipedia before, but not English wikipedia and I was IP editor. I just went on wrong place in wrong time. Georgians share their points on their traditions. You can see other Georgian users, as well.

This is not individual point. You can check, what Georgian education establishments teach to people. You can check, that Obitauri was using abusive language, full with insults, also he said he is national-socialist. Seems you have not read my argument here. I believe in God, any kind of crime is inappropriate for me. My username comes from jet fighter, this means "People's Fighter". I would not count someone as "nazi", if he used name of jet fighter from Nazi Germany. This is most amazing thing I ever saw. Arguments here are clueless. You are just losing good editor. --Volksjäger (talk) 05:25, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * As another point of information for the reviewing admin, I would have blocked this account if FP@S hadn't (I discovered he was blocked when I opened the Special:Block page myself, intending to indef block for socking, and found he had already been blocked 2 minutes earlier). Having dealt with Obitauri last week, I can tell you that I am quite convinced by behavior that they are the same person. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I can tell you to read my post on my talk page. No of you read it and you keep saying same... --Volksjäger (talk) 05:25, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Banning me as sockpuppet... This was one which I was not expecting from this community. --Volksjäger (talk) 15:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Something to say
As I see, this is big mistake. I already argued and brought answers, but seems Administrators want me to keep banned as "sockpuppet of Obitauri". You just did 2 mistakes: 1. Considering me as sockpuppet and blocking me, losing editor 2. Counting me as sockpuppet of Obitauri, this user loses reputation for it as well and chance for unblock

I can not do anything here. Seems I have to edit on other wikipedia (But English is most preferable for me).

If you can fix this, I will be glad, if not, you lose editor, I do not lose anything, expect fact, that I wanted to help this wikipedia and I lose reputation and account. --Volksjäger (talk) 12:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Final Post
This will be my final post, if I will be kept banned and considered as sockpuppet and if no one will talk to me anymore or investigate this case anymore. 1. You were mistaken, considering me as sockpuppet, banning me and losing editor 2. You are losing other editor. You add one more negative side to Obitauri's reputation, making his all chances to be unblocked - 0. 3. I argued and prove, I am not sockpuppet. Still you keep saying same, staying on your position. This may be fault of your own reputation, you think, if you unblock me and say you were mistaken, you will lose reputation. No. This will be better for your reputation. Now you blocked person, who did not do anything wrong on this community (of course here may be some minor mistakes by me, but I am not sockpuppet). 4. I brought enough argument and proof, that considering me as sockpuppet was mistake, but investigation got archived with link to comment here by one of Administrators. I replied this Administrator, did not got reply after this. Comment this person made, made me sure, that he did not even read what I posted here. He does not cares my opinion and does not cares evidence.

For me, this example is one, which I have not even imagined to happen, when I joined this community. One more thing: One of "proofs", that I was sockpuppet, was just nonsense and worse than any argument I ever saw, when investigating "sockpuppetry": "... Both editors also display an affinity with German/Nazi/militarist ideas (Obitauri through his "National socialist" userbox, Volksjäger through his striking choice of militarist-themed username..."/

Of course, if Obitauri made userbox "National-Socialist", considering himself as "Nazi", this does not means I am his duplicate, because I use name connecting with German jet fighter: He-162. I was thinking for 5 minutes to choose my username. I chose this name with many reasons. It is same to call someone duplicate of Obitauri, cause using German military-themed username. This makes no sense for me. Other reasons, as well, but this reason is worst from all reasons given. Fact, that I created this account 2 days after Obitauri was blocked does not means I am his duplicate. Other fact, that I edited 3 articles, which was edited by Obitauri before, does not means I am his duplicate. Also we may have some shared ideas, but this does not means I am his duplicate.

So if this will not get attention, gets ignored and I will be kept blocked, I will have to contribute other wikipedia (German, Russian or Georgian). Most preferable was English though... We all do mistakes, we all are humans, but we must see our mistakes and fix them, when I see here, that you keep standing on wrong position, as you care your reputation.

This will be my final post, if I will be kept blocked.

Respect others, you do mistakes as well. Do not stand on position, if this position wrong, even if you think it is correct, compare it to other POV, do not care only your POV. --Volksjäger (talk) 17:15, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

One single administrator can block anyone without asking others, but can not unblock without asking others. Decline reason answers I already gave. I can repeat, date does not do everything here, I used to be IP editor on other wikipedia. I came on wrong place in wrong time. Also location of edits, only 3 article, where we both, me and Obitauri edited/discussed. Nature of edits: I am Georgian, Obitauri seems to be Georgian. People sometimes have shared point on one single subject, sometimes on more subjects. Here is possibility we both had POV close to each other. As I checked his history, he got minor similarities to me. I will try to re-appeal block, if again same reason, seems this really was my final post. --Volksjäger (talk) 18:32, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

New unblock request
"The arguments mentioned above by a number of experienced admins are convincing, while your defense is not. --Anthony Bradbury" That is what I expected. This community administration cares their "reputation" more than truth. They may know they are wrong, but they do not want to say they are wrong. Reason given is nonsense. Not normal argument. I Re-Appeal my block with similar reason and I request better reject reason IF it will be rejected again. I do not care if this administrator is experienced or not, EVERYONE does mistakes. Give argument and evidence. This is annoying. --Volksjäger (talk) 19:28, 13 September 2013 (UTC)