User talk:Y. Dongchen

Fatima Payman
You have previously received a notice about restrictions on editing related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. You are not currently qualified to edit in this area. You should therefore abstain from editing the Fatima Payman page. Burrobert (talk) 05:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the message. As you point out that the "area of conflict" per the arbitration guidelines may be so "broadly construed" such that my latest edit on that particular passage demands proxy editing via a request to an extended-confirmed user, I will submit such a request via the talk page and refrain from directly applying it until I am at 500 edits.
 * And as a personal note: I have no enmity towards Palestinians; I detest the Israeli government for their actions. But Wikipedia is not supposed to written in a non-neutral tone. It is not supposed to be pro-Israel, not pro-Palestinian. It is pro-truth. That is the premise of my approach. In regards to your wording of that passage, I think it is not a very faithful representation of the source. As much as I sympathise with Payman and the broader peace movement, my role as a Wikipedia contributor is not minimising criticism of Payman that is present in a source.
 * Have a good day. Y. Dongchen (talk) 06:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's a fair and reasonable response. I did not oppose all your edits to the page and the final product is a combination of both our edits. My concerns were fairly minor. The main issues were:
 * to ensure readers understood that Payman abstained from voting on the Labor amendment, rather than "refusing" it.
 * to use the neutral term "said" rather than "pointed to" and to avoid the term "despite". These come under the policy at WP:words to watch.
 * I wasn't sure that "disagreed with" (your wording) and "deviated from" (the source's wording) are synonyms. "Deviated from" may possibly suggest Aly took some actions which contravened policy, similar to what Payman did. "Disagreed with" indicates a state of mind and, until the thought police become a thing, this breaches no party policy. Anyway there is no clear evidence that Aly did in fact take actions against policy, so it is not worth spending time over this issue. Burrobert (talk) 14:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)