User talk:Yazeh

Your submission at Articles for creation: Toi et moi (TV series) (July 19)
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EROS message 12:07, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Toi et moi (TV series)


Hello, Yazeh. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, Draft:Toi et moi (TV series).

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 02:46, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Your edits of Dead Sea Scrolls
Hello, in these two edits, you removed a source which broke a reference name. Also, the source doesn't mention "iron gall", but it says gall nuts (meaning oak apples or other galls) were *sometimes* added to the ink "to make it more resilient" — see also Iron gall ink. Your edits removed the additions "to thin the ink to a proper consistency for writing". I reverted the edits for these reasons. Wakari07 (talk) 11:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Wakari, I'd appreciate if you revert the document to the new edit: Iron gall ink is ink made from gall nuts.

"Ancient black inks were analyzed in several studies and two types were detected and identified: carbon ink, based on lampblack or soot; and iron-gall ink, consisting of copperas (green vitriol, FESO 4 - 7H20), treated with a decoction of oak-nut galls.2"


 * Thank you for our reply. Note that the sentence "Ancient black inks were analyzed in several studies" is a general statement about "ancient black inks", not specific to the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the occasional (where?) addition of galls is mentioned, there is no talk of iron. "scientific analyses of the black ink used in the scrolls clearly determined that it was not iron-based, but rather carbonaceous (charcoal, soot, lampblack, etc.)" I edited the article to provide for the addition of gall, adding the sentence "Galls were sometimes added to the ink to make it more resilient. ". For the Broshi & Nir-El source however, I have access only to the first two of ten pages here. Wakari07 (talk) 13:18, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

I am not so sure. Why would they talk about different black inks, while they are talking about Qumran Scrolls. I've dropped an email, to the Dead Sea scrolls site and asked them for confirmation about the composition of the inks and the proporotion to which they were written with by either Carbon or Iron gall inks.

My other source, was Ted Bishop's Ink, https://books.google.ca/books?id=ScOtDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT255&dq=ted+bishop+ink+Dead+Sea+scrolls&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisqqTr4_DtAhWvq1kKHZgCCy4Q6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=Dead%20Sea%20scrolls&f=false

In that he assures that the Dead Sea Scrolls are written with Iron gall ink. I can drop him a line and ask him too.

Furthermore:

Carbon ink is basically soot, and fat, mixed with water...you have ink. Iron gall ink, is gall nuts, mixed with ferrous sulphite, gum arabic and liquid (water, vinegar etc). You cannot add gall nuts to carbon ink... That statement is not correct. Sorry :)

Check this site too: https://scrolls4all.org/scrolls/kosher-ink/ "When the ink on the Dead Sea Scrolls was analyzed using a cyclotron at the Davis campus of the University of California, there were three recipes for the ink. One was the carbon base gall ink; the other was the iron gall ink. The difference in the two is Iron-gall ink burned into the parchment by reacting with collagen in the skin.

The third type of ink was found in a few scrolls at Qumran. It was called “red ink”."


 * The scholars start with stating their challenge: since two basic recipes are known—which one was used, or were both? Meanwhile, I created a free JStor account and I've read the full 11 pages. The last sentence of the conclusion is: "The Qumran scrolls, as well as the manuscripts from the times of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, predate the use of ink spiked with metal additives."


 * The small snippet I can read of the Ted Bishop source has: "... from the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Bible to the Torah (with its 304,805 letters, each of which must be perfect, written with a reed pen in gallnut ink"). He doesn't speak of iron-gall ink and the round brackets expand a statement specific on the Torah.


 * I don't see why one couldn't add gall to a carbon decoction. Why can't this be correct? To me (I don't have a degree in chemistry), it seems that gallic acid would indeed help attach the ink to the parchment or papyrus.


 * Scrolls4all.org is a WP:BLOG, not WP:RS by definition. It doesn't mention an author for that specific article.


 * Again, thank you for the discussion. If we find some real point of contention, we may bring it to the article talk page. Regards. Wakari07 (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

'''Gall nut ink, is iron gall ink. Gall nuts are protrusions created on oak trees, by a wasp. These gall nuts or tumours if you will are collected. They contain tannin/gallatonic acid. They are pounded and crushed and soaked, mixed with ferrous sulphate (iron) and gum arabic and liquid to create the ink. You can read more on it, here: https://irongallink.org/igi_indexee73.html ''' I have the Ted Bishop book. I can find you the quote and page. I'm going to drop him a note and ask for his sources.

Sorry, I forgot to login. Another thing, if you add gallnut to a carobin ink you won't have the chemical reaction you're looking for. Iron gall ink's function by having a chemical reaction with collagen (skin) or cellulose (paper).

I finally read the article. You're write. It's a carbon based ink. I don't know where he got that info from. I send him a message anyway. I also found this article again on JSTOR: which they added the gall nuts to the carbon ink. So, you're write. But they don't why it worked or how it worked.