User talk:Zadignose

Nice job merging the articles! With a little Wikifying, the new article will be much improved! Kafziel Talk 17:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks for the encouragement! zadignose 17:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Belated welcome
By the way, since nobody has officially welcomed you yet, I figured I'd give you a few links you might find helpful. You obviously have the sandbox thing down, and a good bit of the syntax, too. But these are good to keep for reference, especially if and when you start branching out into other areas.


 * User tutorial
 * Help desk
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 * Links to deletion debates
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 * Current featured article candidates


 * Good articles
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A lot of them are pretty dry, but they may come in handy at some point. There's a lot more to Wikipedia than just the articles everybody sees, which you will find if you stick around long enough. And again, if you ever have a question or need help with anything, don't hesitate to contact me. Kafziel Talk 17:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to WP Films
Hi Zadignose, I saw your comment in WP Films. I answer here, because we have tried to deal with the problem several times but no important step could be taken. There are some minor discussions in archives 2 & 3, but the first important effort to address it is here*. Then we had this problem here* (also see 3 sections above it). You may also want to see the WikiProject Films/List of films without article, where I try to give some notability criteria, although the by country lists are a potentially serious problem. It isn't easy to limit a contributor who thinks that every film with some (subjectively evaluated) notability factor should become part of Wikipedia and who has the enthusiasm to work hard for it. I will be glad if you come up with a good idea, after you take a look. You are welcome to check my collection of general and Films-specific informative links. I hope they can be of help. Cheers! Hoverfish Talk 15:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the links, Hoverfish. I'll try to read through as much as I can, to get caught up on this discussion.  Meanwhile, I've opened up a discussion at the Village Pump [|here], to see if more opinions will flow.  I reckon I've been a bit contentious, but I guess that's how it goes.zadignose 15:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I haven't seen any trace of contentiousness in what you wrote. Some things do need to be discussed. By the way, the "Importance" rating has more to do with the Editorial Team for the distributable Wikipedia Version 1.0 than anything else we could benefit from in Films. I do try to rate some few films as Top, if they are considered masterpieces, or High, if they are important films of an important director, but anything under these ratings is still obscure and undefinable. Maybe "Low" could have also a good use, but I haven't attempted to use it yet. The opinion I find usually is that Importance is mostly POV. Hoverfish Talk 16:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Ocean's Thirteen
I'm curious what your opinion is on other articles related to scheduled events. Should nothing that is planned to take place in the future ever be listed? Nothing is 100% certain. This is why I feel it's necessary to take things on a case by case basis; the reliability of only the sources of the article in question should be examined, not every source for every scheduled event in the encyclopedia. I think your concern is more with the notability requirements for movies, and I believe that it would be more productive to discuss the guidelines (and possibly changing them) rather than simply nominating them for deletion without prior discussion. It's one thing to promote discussion, it's another to thrust it upon a notable subject when the argument is about non-notable ones. Leebo 86 05:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * But I maintain that I did not thrust the discussion upon a notable subject, as I consider Ocean's Thirteen not-notable. I am also attempting to engage the community in a discussion of notability standards for films at the Village Pump an in the Notability guide for Film.  I'm starting to think it's a lost cause.  I'm glad that you've shown an interest in discussing it with an open mind, and thank you for the consideration.


 * I'm not sure whether I can generalize to articles outside the field of film, but I believe that generally all articles about films not yet released should be considered not-notable. That's because we're not really talking about an "event," we're talking about a work of art, or if you prefer a work of entertainment, which is the subject of an article penned before the work's creation.  Such a work can not be deemed notable prior to completion and being viewed by critics and the public.  And it's certain that a prematurely scribed article will be based largely on rumor, speculation, and hype which makes it extremely questionable as a quality encyclopedic article.


 * Also, I think that many people have a distorted notion about the nature of the film business. Many films fail, the inability to complete or release a film is not so unusual an event, and most films that fail do so not as a loud "bomb," but as an inaudible fizzle.  The public quickly forgets what was being so vocally hyped a few months before.  We certainly can't presume that a film will be "notable," whether it succeeds or fails, before the fact.  Again, at the risk of being redundant, most failures are not notable.


 * I might also be skeptical about other "future" articles outside the medium of film, but I think I'm more able to make a reasonable judgment regarding film articles at this point. My ideas seem incompatible with the larger Wikipedia community, but I feel someone needs to speak up about the apparent lack of notability standards.
 * I think one of the concerns that some editors had (including me) is that there was very little discussion concerning the sources of the Ocean's Thirteen article specifically. There was mention of your opinion that all sources for unreleased movies should be considered as unreliable (I'm guessing regardless of the quality of their other coverage?), but not the way that the sources of the article up for deletion were unreliable in particular. Just as you have to cite your sources in an article to prove its verifiability, you need to cite them and explain why they shouldn't be used to prove its non-noteworthiness. But, I believe you are going to have a difficult time discrediting sources that are considered reliable fact-checking third parties. I don't think it's enough to say, "Well, they're reliable when they talk about other stuff, just not movies." Leebo 86 12:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course, there would have been plenty of time to discuss the specifics of The Ocean's Thirteen article and its sources, had the "discussion" not been terminated prematurely. Rather than allowing a discussion of these relevant points, the nomination was abruptly dismissed.  There's no way to give a full discussion of the points relevant to a deletion in just the first paragraph introducing the nomination, and it's not possible to preemptively answer all possible objections.  Unfortunately, the necessary dialogue was not permitted to occur.zadignose 12:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Cobra verde still 1.jpg
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WP:Films Newsletter
The January 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Nehrams2020 06:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Rejs
Thanks for adding the infobox about this film. However, I see you have made a cut and paste move from The Cruise (film)‎ to Rejs. This is not allowed, please take a look at WP:MOVE about how to move pages properly. It takes an admin help to fix this but somebody will come along, I suspect. It is a brilliant film by the way. Stefán 06:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability (films) nominated for deletion
Wikipedia:Notability (films) nominated for deletion

This is a courtesy notice: Wikipedia:Notability (films) has been nominated for deletion. --Kevin Murray 00:36, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Films February Newsletter
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March WP:FILMS Newsletter
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Re your fundamental question
at Wikipedia talk:Attribution/Role of truth. Excellent question! And I agree with a lot of your other comments, too! --Coppertwig 23:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Fairmont, New Orleans
Hi. In The Fairmont Hotel New Orleans article I notice you removed the sentence "The Fairmont New Orleans has been close since Katrina due to extensive damage." with the explanation "unattributed". I reverted that change for the following reasons: 1) It is attributed to exactly the same degree as everything else in the article (in this case, not at all, alas) and 2) Living in New Orleans, I can vouch that the Fairmont is still closed, as can anyone who drives or walks past it. (I suspect a web search will probably confirm such info). The Fairmont New Orleans article is at present a sad little stub, one I'd like to expand on myself sometime, but I have a dauntingly large list of such articles at present. Anyway, I'd like to suggest that if there is a particular statement in an article you wish to take issue with and request citiation (not obvious vandalism, of course), please add Template:Fact or a related template listed on that page rather than removing the material. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 00:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, that's understandable. The reason why I removed the comment is that it was posted by a user who has repeatedly vandalized articles with strange comments, as well as adding a few reverted comments to Fairmont Hotel pages, so I didn't trust the unattributed comment here, though it couldn't clearly be identified as vandalism.  Under other circumstances, I'd have used the citation template as you suggested.zadignose 13:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Nomination for working group
I nominated you at Wikipedia talk:Attribution/Community discussion to be part of a working group to develop a compromise solution for the WP:ATT page. --Coppertwig 23:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The process seems murky and complex, but I'll give it a go and see if I can contribute anything useful/significant. zadignose 23:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

April 2007 WP:FILMS Newsletter
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Proposed move of English Defense
With regards to your comments at talk:English Defense about how you opposed the survey on the talk page, hash marks to enumerate comments, or grouping by support/opposition; please note that this is the procedure required to be followed as per WP:Requested moves, and the layout as seen is generated automatically by the addition of the RMtalk template (see step 3 of the page move nomination procedure). The best place to discuss changes would be at talk:Template talk:RMtalk.

For what it's worth, the template has been edited recently so bullet points are used instead of hash marks, and all discussions are already kept in a single section. So it looks like the template is now laid out as you'd prefer it. Regards, --DeLarge 11:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. It seems I did take up the discussion of these points in the wrong place, though I would briefly point out that the few Requested moves I've been involved in did not use this template, and the use of the template is not actually required for Requested moves. Rather, the page instructs users to create a place for discussion that can take "any form that is reasonable..." and then it states: "If a formal poll would help clarify whether consensus exists for the move, you can use the following template." But the formatting of the page, and the prominence of the template, really make it seem that this is standard expected procedure. Anyway, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. zadignose 12:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

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List mediation
Welcome to the mediation group. I hope it won't actually be doing much anything shortly, but am more than happy to see you include yourself. John Carter 18:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello Zagdignose. The proposed deadline for the tiebreaker poll is quickly approaching. It looks like the option you did not vote for will retain its lead. If that becomes the case, I wonder if you would express your acceptance of that outcome, even though it was not your preferred option, as did T. Anthony and Drumpler. I ask this in the interest of creating the strongest possbile consensus, so that the issue can be settled, and we can move on. Nick Graves 20:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I certainly don't intend to edit against consensus, and I won't stir the pot with a lot of contentious posts right after our latest heated debates. After some time passes, and we've seen how the list shapes up, I think it would be reasonable to further discuss some points regarding the organization/format on the talk page.  But I certainly can move on, in the sense that I won't cry foul or dispute issues that are beyond dispute.  Is that close enough to what you were looking for? zadignose 00:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. Thank you. Nick Graves 01:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom
I have submitted a report on User:Bus stop on the ArbCom page here. As an individual who was involved in this debate, your participation would be appreciated. Thanks. Drumpler 17:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007 WP:FILMS Newsletter
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Your contribution would be much appreciated
Zadignose, I like what you wrote in the discussion of Talk:Evolution (philosophy). I thought it was reasonable and had a calming effect on the discussion. I hope you will consider taking a look at a virtually identical debate with some of the same Users at Talk:Involution (philosophy). Cott12 00:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

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WikiProject Films roll call
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Talk:Ossie Davis
Hi. Could you offer your opinion on the discussion on the Ossie Davis Talk Page? Thanks. Nightscream 16:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion of TheVOid
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TUSC token 53380064319b3bd3cd77e8929d154c5f
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File:Cobra verde still 1.jpg listed for deletion
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You were there, way back when...
Based upon recent discussions in several places, I have begun work on an essay that seeks to clarify just how and when discussion of a film-before-it's-been-filmed might per WP:FUTURE merit inclusion in some manner, or per WP:GNG and WP:SPLIT might even merit a seperate article. A comment a recent AFD got me thinking of WP:EVENT would apply to a film's eary production in relation to WP:FUTURE and WP:GNG, and the question "Has the production of the film generated multiple, non-trivial news stories? In other words: Does the film already satisfy the primary criterion?" This inspired my essay and its attempt to perhaps address an ambiguity from WP:NFF in the same manner as was considered when WP:NF was first being created.  As you were among the principle architects of WP:NF, please consider looking over User:MichaelQSchmidt/Future Films and offering your insights. Thanks,  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:05, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

A related discussion
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Future films Your comments toward my attempt at clarity are quite welcome.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 23:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

User:RJR3333 at the To Catch a Predator article
He's violated WP:CONSENSUS again. See my comment about it on the talk page. Because of his failure to defer to WP:CONSENSUS, his inability to stick to compromises with respect to WP:CONSENSUS, and his repeated WP:DEADHORSE tendencies, I will be reporting him if that edit is not reverted. This is ridiculous. Thank you for stepping in, but the editor is beyond help. If it comes down to me reporting him, your weighing in on the case against him, with regard to this particular topic, would be most appreciated. Flyer22 (talk) 08:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it looks like he's not likely to relent.zadignose (talk) 09:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not true. The consensus was that age of consent would not be used in the article. But I already have proof they used the term on the show, so that's not an issue anymore. There was no consensus about not clarifying "age of majority varies by state". --RJR3333 (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Like I stated at the talk page, yes, it is true because every editor there stated that no elaboration was needed. They stated that either just using the term "age of consent" or "underage" is enough, which obviously goes for what you continue to try to do as well. And more than just Zadignose and myself have reverted you on your note. Now go play, and stop trying to debate me at any and every talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 16:15, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

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