Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1921–22 Cardiff City F.C. season/archive1

1921–22 Cardiff City F.C. season

 * Nominator(s): Kosack (talk) 07:10, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

This article is about Cardiff City F.C.'s second season in the Football League and their first in the top tier of English football. The team started disastrously, losing their first six matches, but recovered to claim a creditable fourth place. The article follows the same layout as the previous season which was promoted to FA last year. As ever, I look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 07:10, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Image licensing looks good (t &#183; c)  buidhe  08:13, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Drive-by comment
 * Results listing shows three games against Newcastle in April - that can't be right, surely.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:16, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Great spot, fixed that thanks. Kosack (talk) 11:18, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries. I will do a full review in the coming days..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:36, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments

 * "The average league attendance during the season was 27,000" - this disagrees with the infobox
 * Western Mail should be in italics in the photo caption
 * "Wolverhampton Wanderers defender Dickie Baugh Jr.." - avoid double full stop
 * "Club officials estimated between" => "Club officials estimated that between"
 * "Tottenham received a blow early into the game" => "Tottenham received a blow early in the game"
 * "having proven a stubborn opponent [...], they" - there seems to be a single/plural disconnect here
 * The term "reverse fixture" might be unclear to people without in-depth football knowledge.....?
 * "a match that was described as "The most" - don't have a capital on The in the middle of a sentence (still applies even though it is a quote, I believe)
 * "Jimmy Gill who had been the club's top scorer the previous season scored" => "Jimmy Gill, who had been the club's top scorer the previous season, scored"
 * "On 31 October, club captain Keenor" - this is the first mention of him so his forename should be included (along with a wikilink)
 * "yielded only a point for Cardiff after losing 2–0 at home and drawing 1–1 away" => "yielded only a point for Cardiff, who lost 2–0 at home and drew 1–1 away"
 * "The team's victory over Blackburn during this spell saw an unusual debutant" - pedantically, was he a debutant? He had played for the club before the war.....
 * "the team's drew 1–1" - lose that apostrophe
 * "with their opponents already having secured the First Division title,[29] winning 2–0" - wording seems slightly ambiguous as to who actually won
 * "before beating the then relegated Manchester" => "before beating the already-relegated Manchester United" (as a football fan of more than 30 years I have never heard Man U referred to simply as "Manchester")
 * The term "brace" (to mean two goals) is used repeatedly but never explained or linked - any way to do so, as I don't believe this to be a common/well-known term
 * "Southampton who they had defeated" => "Southampton, whom they had defeated"
 * "The replay was held at Tottenham's ground White Hart Lane and such was the demand for tickets, " => "The replay was held at Tottenham's ground White Hart Lane and, such was the demand for tickets, "
 * "Gill and Len Davies each scored once, Davies' goal was his eighth" => "Gill and Len Davies each scored once; Davies' goal was his eighth" or "Gill and Len Davies each scored once, Davies' goal being his eighth"
 * That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:09, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, I've actioned everything above. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 19:01, 22 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Support - great work. If you had a spare few minutes, BTW, I would really value your input at Featured article candidates/2009 Football League Two play-off Final/archive1.  If not, not to worry -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:27, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Support from TRM

 * Link the variant of football in the opening sentence.
 * Link promotion. Apparently  there are sports where all the teams just get to recycle year after year after year....
 * "highest tier ... top tier" in the same sentence is a little repetitive.
 * "finished the campaign" repetitive.
 * "the FA Cup, Cardiff" I would link the specific edition.
 * "reached the fourth round" did they enter in the third?  I.e. this feels a bit overblown if they only won one game to get to this defeat...
 * "During the campaign, 31..." last campaign was the cup run...
 * "made more appearances than" repetitive, maybe "played more times" or something?
 * "However, the league fixture against Tottenham recorded an attendance of 50,000 although ..." However although reads poorly for me. Also, is it Tottenham or Tottenham Hotspur?
 * "In the side's first season" in the Second Division...
 * " on goal average after" up to you, some others would suggest this needs explanation, perhaps a footnote explaining what it means. For me, I'm happy with a link but I know what it means already.  Does a seven-year-old American child though??
 * For "top tier" you could link English football league system.
 * Link Manager.
 * "an agent acting" is there a football agent article?
 * Again, perhaps earlier, link  the specific edition of the FA Cup.
 * "In the team's first match" new section, reiterate Cardiff.
 * "they met FA Cup holders Tottenham Hotspur" is the cup relevant to the  league?
 * I think so, just to emphasise the jump in competition from Second Division to First Division competition I believe. Kosack (talk) 13:43, 27 June 2021 (UTC)


 * "an extra 6-10,000 people" additional, not extra, and en-dash there.
 * Consider linking positions, like "defender".... that seven-year-old US kid is looking confused....
 * "Jack Page started" if not ambiguous, just use surname after already introducing him above.
 * As noted in the background section, his brother was also signed in pre-season so I've included his first name here. Kosack (talk) 13:43, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, duh me. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 10:53, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, that takes me to "November–May", let me know when you'd like me to continue. Incidentally, watching Wales v Denmark right now. Sad face. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 17:08, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Tottenham received a blow early in the game as Jimmy Seed picked up an injury. Despite the setback, Tottenham proved" -> "Tottenham suffered a setback early in the game as Jimmy Seed picked up an injury but proved.."
 * "score board" one word..
 * "to use as " use it.
 * "club to approach local police to seek advice on crowd" they asked the police to seek advice or they sought advice from the police?
 * "reverse fixture five days later" no anchor for context on "later".
 * "with The Times describing" overlinnked.
 * "prompting manager Fred Stewart to" do you need to reintroduce him as manager and include his first name?
 * "was described as" by whom?
 * "a surprising turn of form" according to whom?
 * "an upset to" link upset.
 * "for £1,500" inflate.
 * Link transfer fee.
 * "for £500.[21] On" inflate.
 * Thanks for the review, I'm up to speed now and have addressed everything here so far. The less said about that game the better... Kosack (talk) 13:43, 27 June 2021 (UTC)


 * "yielded only a point for Cardiff.." got me thinking, would be very helpful to have a footnote explaining that a draw was worth one point and (I assume) a win was worth two? Especially for our non-football readers...
 * "the teams drew 1–1 " at?
 * "with their opponents..., with..." repetitive run-ons.
 * Could link "relegated" (I know that's technically going to be an overlink, but still useful).
 * Avoid using the semi-colon markup for section headings.
 * "Source: [31]" no space before ref.
 * The source is generated by the table template so I can't edit it unfortunately. Kosack (talk) 19:27, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I hate using tables when there's no control over things like that. I'd hand-code it.  And it raises another question, is http://www.englishfootballleaguetables.co.uk/final/f1921-22.html a reliable source?  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 19:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I actually did code it originally and another user arrived to turn everything into templates, so I just left it. I've reverted back now and used a more reliable source. Kosack (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's good. Templates are okay but if they're poorly coded and use unreliable sources, it's better to move away from them as you've done.  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:03, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Gotta pop out, more soon. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:01, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

That's all I have. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 16:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "round, being drawn" -> "round where they were drawn"
 * "were praised for" by whom? The Times?
 * "was drawn against" add "away" here so we don't need to explain that The Dell was Soton's ground.
 * "victory in ... Their victory" repetitive.
 * Link "dribbled" (can you imagine what the seven-year-old American would make of that??)
 * "to finish past" perhaps "to strike the ball" or "to shoot" instead of the more euphemistic "finish"?
 * "all going close" + "to scoring."
 * "for Gill to convert" score rather than "convert"?
 * "headed in from a corner" link both.
 * Also link cross.
 * "winning goal.[36] The goal" repetitive.
 * Link referee.
 * What leagues were the Welsh Cup opponents each in?
 * "Davies' goal" s's (per MOS, which if you ignore, I won't be upset...)
 * "Player details" section could just be called "Players" and then use "Player statistics" as a table caption rather than a subheading.
 * "matches in all competitions" I know this is common parlance, but would "across" be less ambiguous than "in"??
 * "three less than" fewer.
 * "new club record for goals in a single season" perhaps "new club single-season record"? I don't think the repeat of "goals" is necessary.
 * "the 1922–23 season with " you've already linked it in this para.
 * " £63,000 for the campaign, £12,000" inflate.
 * Minor point, but I usually italicise Football Club History Database as it's a website.
 * I would expect ISBNs to be consistently formatted.
 * Thanks for the rest of the review, I've addressed everything with one comment above. Kosack (talk) 19:27, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Happy with this now. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:03, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Support from Cas Liber
Ok looking now...


 * In the FA Cup, Cardiff entered the competition in the first round and progressed to the fourth - sounds odd, why not "Cardiff entered the FA Cup in the first round and progressed to the fourth"


 * Club officials estimated that between 6—10,000 people broke into the ground err no, either "Club officials estimated that between 6 and 10,000 people broke into the ground" or "Club officials estimated that 6—10,000 people broke into the ground"

Otherewise looks in good nick....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:24, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look, I've amended both points above. Kosack (talk) 06:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Source review — Pass
Specific
 * Suggest changing title to "Citations"
 * #3 — Suggest linking The Times. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter. And rather than linking to the landing page (which requires a subscription), you can link to the image itself—right click on the image, open it in a new tab, and adjust the URL as needed. See ref #2 at George Sidney Herbert as an example.
 * Linked The Times but the image idea is a little difficult in mobile editing. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you have a way to edit via a computer? It's not something to hold up the review over, it's just preferable to have an unpaywalled link. Separately, here and elsewhere, you haven't responded about retrieval dates for printed matter. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Not directly to hand I'm afraid. Also, the retrieval dates are quite common in this sort of use, every FA I have ever sent through uses them and there are numerous FACs ongoing right now doing the same. Kosack (talk) 06:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #3 — Is this reliable?
 * I'm assuming a ref has changed position since this the review as The Times is ref 3? So if you mean the Football Club History Database, yeah it's widely used here on Wiki and has gone through FA numerous times before. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * My mistake, I meant #4. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #4 — "last updated" date can be used as the page date. Is this reliable?
 * I'm assuming this is England football online.com. If so, yes I believe it is, the site is maintained by Chris Goodwin and Glyn Isherwood who are both professional football journalists and have had books published in the past. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Correct, I meant #5. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #7 — Same as #3.
 * For these and all following, The Times is still not linked. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see what you meant now. I thought you were were referring to something else, linked now. Kosack (talk) 06:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #9 — Is this the same paper as Western Mail? If so, can be linked. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter.
 * #10 — Same as #3.
 * #11 — Same as #3.
 * #13 — Sheffield Daily Telegraph can be linked. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter.
 * #15 — Same as #3.
 * #16 — Same as #3.
 * #18 — Same as #3.
 * #19 — Same as #3.
 * #21 — Star Green 'Un can be linked. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter.
 * Not addressed. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * #22 — Is this the same as the Athletic News? If so, it can be linked. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter.
 * #24 — Same as #3.
 * #27–29 — Same as #3.
 * #30 — This should probably be in "Bibliography," with a short cite here, for consistency.
 * When a single page of a book is referenced, I typically include it as a direct citation as done here. If multiple pages are cited, I list it in the bibliography. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #32–36 — Same as #3.
 * #38 — Last updated date can be used as page date. Should this be "Reyes Padilla, Macario" or "Padilla, Macario Reyes"?
 * Author name not fixed/responded to. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, Reyes tends to be a surname in my experience, so I included it there. Kosack (talk) 06:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #39 — Last updated date can be used as page date.
 * #41 — Is this reliable? Author missing.
 * The site's predecessor is formerly the official Altrincham website and the author Terry Rowley is a noted club historian. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #42 — This should probably be in "Bibliography," with a short cite here, for consistency.
 * Same as above. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)


 * #44 — Same as #3.
 * #45 — Is this the same paper as Western Mail? If so, can be linked. Retrieval date not needed for printed matter.

Bibliography
 * Lloyd 1999 — Publisher location missing.

looked at. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:13, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. I've responded to all of the points above. Kosack (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , a couple comments above. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Addressed the remaining issues. Kosack (talk) 06:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , I'm signed off. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:49, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 13:48, 30 July 2021 (UTC)