Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2016 FA Cup Final/archive1

2016 FA Cup Final

 * Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:04, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Even though it's lost a bit of polish over the last few years, this is still the premier domestic association football cup competition in the world. I believe we now have a comprehensive and detailed article covering all aspects of the final, and I look forward to addressing any and all constructive comments, with thanks in advance for taking the time and interest to help the nomination. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:04, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Image licensing looks good (t &#183; c)  buidhe  07:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks . The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Support from ChrisTheDude

 * Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:33, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Source review – Pass
Will do soon. Aza24 (talk) 22:43, 14 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Formatting
 * James M. Ross seems to be the author for ref 13
 * ref 19 is missing a work/publisher
 * The Rostance refs seems to have "21 May 2016" as their dates. It's above the summary and under "Mourinho latest & FA Cup final reaction"
 * Suggest a "find and replace" tool to update this quicker
 * ref 47 is missing the date


 * Reliability
 * No issues


 * Verifiability
 * Checked a few—no issues. Aza24 (talk) 22:54, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks so much, I've addressed your concerns, let me know if there's anything else. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 09:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Just took another look and its looks great. Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 06:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * thank you very much for taking the time to look, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:34, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Support from Casliber

 * Support from me. I concede I am not the tightest of prose reviewers so others might pick up something but I could not see any outstanding prose errors. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:07, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support by Amakuru

 * General comments:
 * This might be partly down to me, with some of the articles I've written, and I don't know if it matters or not, but there's a bit of a difference in formats emerging with the Final articles. In 1987 FA Cup Final, we put Background first, giving a general introduction to what the competition is, as well as any other over-arching themes, with a separate "pre-match" section in the match Summary. I would probably slightly prefer this way of doing it, as otherwise the "Route to the final" section begins with a bit of a lack of context. Particularly for a newcomer unfamiliar with football competitions, and who hasn't already read the lead. This is more food for thought though, and obviously articles like 2017 FA Cup Final are already FAs under the format of showing the Route-to-the-final first.
 * That's a fair point, I am generally reluctant to wholesale delete a previous set-up just to impose "latest" style on it. If the content is sufficient then I don't think it has to precisely match the format of other, recently promoted material.  There's certainly no criterion I'm aware of at FAC which says that articles of a "common" grouping should have consistently identical formatting.    Having said that, I'm happy to borrow from '87 to feed '16.  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:17, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course. This was just a general observation really. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 11:25, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I've done it now, what do you think? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yep, that looks good cheers. There's some guff about when the big boys enter the competition on the 1987 page, as a precursor to our saying the finalists entered in the third round, but I think that's strictly optional. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I saw that but thought it was an offline source and wasn't sure it could be assuredly applied to the 2016 final? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 15:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Route to the final (Crystal Palace):
 * "Crystal Palace started in the third round" - maybe add something like "their campaign" after "started".
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "where they were drawn against" - "in which" would sound better then "where" to me.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That opening sentence seems quite long as well. Consider splitting it, for example after "third round".
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "following Cuco Martina's saved shot" - Would it be worth linking to Save (goaltender), just in case someone isn't sure what this means?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Wondering if it's worth explicitly saying that Crystal Palace won their third-round game. I suppose this is obvious from the fact that they were ahead and then were in the next round, but the jump from "they retook the lead" to "In the fourth round..." seems slightly abrupt.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Zaha scored in the first half, after beating the Stoke City defence and striking the ball past Jakob Haugaard for the only goal of the game" - this sounds slightly wrong. As if "scored in the first half" occurred after everything else in the sentence. Probably "Zaha scored in the first half after beating the Stoke City defence, striking the ball..." would work better.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "The visiting side had made eight changes to their team from their previous match" - previous match in the league or in the FA Cup?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "met their third consecutive Premier League opposition when they were drawn..." - minor point, but the meeting with the opposition occurred during the match, not at the point when the draw took place, meaning that "when" is slightly off.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Route to the final (Manchester United):
 * General: There's a bit of a mixture of "Manchester United" and "United", I'm not sure if this is intentional or if there's a pattern to it. Obviously we can't use "United" in some of the games, e.g. against West Ham and Sheffield United so perhaps just write in full on every usage? Something to consider anyway.
 * Spelt it out, there are other "Uniteds" in there so  Manc all the way. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "As a Premier League team, Manchester United entered in the third round" - this is a sort of repetition of the opening of the previous section. Could reword with an "also" or similar.
 * Added a bit more. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Second-half substitute Memphis Depay was fouled in second half stoppage time" - repetition of "second half"
 * Removed first one. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "a goal by Mark Robins reportedly saved the career of Alex Ferguson" - who reported that? WP:WEASEL alert perhaps.
 * I kept that out of respect for one of the previous authors, but agree, it's weasel and trivia really. Gone. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "was compared to ..." - similarly, this begs the question of who made such a comparison
 * Gone gone. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "for the final fourteen minutes of the match when Will Keane..." - "after" might work better than "when" here, as his coming off injured did not last fourteen minutes
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Background:
 * "one win and appearance behind Arsenal in FA Cup wins and FA Cup Final appearances respectively" - wording slightly odd here. Maybe "one behind Arsenal in both FA Cup wins and FA Cup Final appearances" ?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Their last victory in the competition was in 2004" - a "victory" could also mean a win in an individual match.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "which they lost to Manchester United after a replay after the first match had ended in a 3–3 draw" - repetition of "after"
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Selhurst Park in London" - we have already encountered Selhurst Park earlier, so not sure we need to say "in London" at this point.
 * Moot. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "was Mark Clattenburg, from Consett, County Durham" - we don't need a comma before "from"
 * removed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "The financial prize for the winning the FA Cup Final" - the first "the" is superfluous.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * More to come soon... &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 11:41, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * addressed thus far, cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 11:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * First half:
 * "Zaha then played in a cross which Wickham" - second appearance of "then" in consecutive sentences, sounds slightly repetitive.
 * Excised one. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Second half:
 * Can't see any issues.
 * Amaze. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Extra time:
 * "8 yards (7.3 m)" - I suspect the latter figure is over-precise here... probably just "7 m" would do.
 * Tsk, must try harder. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Post-match:
 * "Five days after the final, van Gaal was dismissed by Manchester United" - any particular reason? We were told earlier that his job had been saved.
 * Well far be it from me to speculate on the motives of Ed Woodward etc. Money?  Success?  European football?  If I was a betting man, I'd say he'd have been sacked before the FA Cup final if they hadn't got to the FA Cup final.  But we'll never know.  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Lead:
 * "in 1990" - amend to "in 1990" I'd think, to avoid an easter egg.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "after a replay when their first match ended in a 3–3 draw" - slightly awkward wording perhaps. One might say "a replay following a 3–3 draw in the first match" or something.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "Chris Smalling fouled Connor Wickham" - three different links in a row, leading to a WP:SEAOFBLUE.
 * Split. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "becoming only the fourth player to be dismissed" - the body did not say "only" here, is just said he was the fourth. Is this remarkable in particular for being a low number?
 * Interesting point, I've removed "only" from the lead because it's inherently POV, but I wonder how many players one would expect to see sent off in 135 matches. Something for another day perhaps... ! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed. This is probably influenced heavily by the relatively recent change in the way discipline is handled in matches. What is genuinely astonishing is that the 1985 FA Cup Final (your future project!) was the *first* sending off in the final in the competition's history. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 15:28, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's about it. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:05, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * done, thanks! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Passing on prose. Good work. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support by Kosack
Nothing much to complain about on my part as usual. A few minor points above. Kosack (talk) 13:05, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "against Millwall at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium.[8][7]", refs are out of numerical order here.
 * Fixed. (yesterday I think!) The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 14:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "converting Ander Herrera's shot", perhaps it's just me but I find it a little odd to say he converted a shot. Judging by the highlights I'd question whether Herrera was actually shooting as well, which the FA match report seems to agree with.
 * Yah, it was a pass, not a shot. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 14:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * In the Manchester United section, a use of De Gea is capitalised mid-sentence, but in the match report it's de Gea. I'm not sure which is correct, but worth pointing out.
 * One instance a typo, the other starting a sentence where De Gea is okay. Thus fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 14:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * As far as I was aware, the general consensus on player nationality in match articles is to avoid overemphasizing it so the use of the nation abbreviation as well as the flags seems a little odd. Is this based off a discussion somewhere?
 * I added that because the use of flag icons alone is unreasonable as many readers don't understand the flags, or subtle differences between them. For me, we don't need the flags, but there's a consensus at the football Wikiproject that these decorative icons are somehow vital for these kinds of articles, even when (a) the player nationalities are utterly irrelevant and (b) not discussed in any sense.  But I gave up dying on that hill and just allow the trivia, but with explanatory usage for our readers' benefit. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 14:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * hey, thanks a lot! I've addressed your concerns and responded to the flag icon point.  Please don't hesitate to get back to me if anything else is required.  Much obliged. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 14:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Nice work, my concerns have been suitably addressed. Happy to support. Kosack (talk) 18:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Query for the coordinators

 * four supports, source and image review passed, can I nominate another FAC? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 18:03, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You certainly may. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 22:14, 28 June 2021 (UTC)