Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2018 FA Cup Final/archive1

2018 FA Cup Final

 * Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 21:58, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Jose, Butch, Prince William.... This match had it all (or most of it). The oldest and greatest association football cup competition in the world, 2018 edition. Worth a read. As always, I'll endeavour to address every comment as soon as I possibly can, and thanks in advance for your time and energy in reviewing. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 21:58, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This nomination may be used in the WikiCup competition. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 13:07, 12 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Image review
 * Images are freely licensed
 * Need a source in the image description of File:Chelsea vs Man Utd 2018-05-19.svg for the positions of players (t &#183; c)  buidhe  07:55, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * created the image and is having a look for a source more suitable than the YouTube video of the game where it's shown. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 17:00, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For clarity, the YouTube video mentioned is a third-party highlights package that uses the original BBC broadcast of the match. So while this specific video isn't itself necessarily a reliable source, the footage it uses is. I'm trying to find an alternative, but considering the provenance of the footage, it should be fine. – PeeJay 17:38, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments by RetiredDuke

 * "... and was his third full season at Manchester United without winning silverware." - Mourinho won the Europa League with United the previous year so that can't be. What the source means is that it's the third full season in Mourinho's entire career without silverware. RetiredDuke (talk) 14:48, 2 October 2020 (UTC) He also only spent 2 full seasons as Manchester United's manager. RetiredDuke (talk) 15:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Good spot, so I've just removed "at Manchester United".  As I was writing it, it  struck me as odd because he barely spends more than three years anywhere.  The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 17:00, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support by Kosack

 * I can't see "world's oldest football competition" sourced anywhere in the main body, so it needs a ref in the lead.
 * Worse, it's not even mentioned in the main body, so added a mention and a ref. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The 1994 final is linked in the first paragraph, but not the 2007 final?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Links are generally starting afresh after the lead, so perhaps link extra time and VAR again and possibly link BBC also?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Link Manchester United at the start of their Route to the final section.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "most recent appearance being in 2016 final in which", doesn't quite work.
 * Fixed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Liverpool are linked in the paragraph on refereeing, but are mentioned at the start of the section.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * VAR uses the full name and abbreviation in the refereeing section, but is used only as an abbreviation twice in the Route to the final section.
 * Fixed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The article states that Man Utd kicked off both the first and second halves?
 * Typical United tactic. Get away with murder.  Fixed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "normally have attended the final and present the trophy to the winning captain", should this be "presented"?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

A few minor points I picked out from an initial run through. Kosack (talk) 07:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * initial points dealt with, many thanks. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 10:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Made two very minor fixes in addition, but I'm happy to support this. Nice work. Kosack (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

indopug
Driveby comments for now: what's your source for the formation diagram? Indeed, the sources you've used seem to contradict it; thefa.com says Chelsea played 3-5-1-1 and 11v11.com lists Hazard as a midfielder (both of these seem more reasonable than Hazard playing right alongside Giroud). And surely the first sentence of the article (and of Background) can be rewritten to avoid "FA Cup" appearing thrice in quick succession?—indopug (talk) 16:13, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The source for the formation is in the Commons file. I've reworded both other issues. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 16:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If the FA website says Chelsea played 3-5-1-1, that's certainly a good reason to change the formation diagram, although since they don't have a graphical version of the team and the BBC does, I'm hesitant at this point. Do either of you have a preferred course of action? – PeeJay 18:43, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm fine as it is. I believe Hazard behind Giroud would be more accurate, but not easily justifiable (for the reasons you listed).—indopug (talk) 07:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support from Hog Farm
Placeholder for now. I've got another FAC review on the docket before this one, but I should be on this one soon. I'm on quarantine, so I have way to much time on my hands. Might be claimed for the WikiCup. Hog Farm Bacon 18:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * "There, they faced Southampton at Wembley, and goals from strikers Giroud and Morata saw Chelsea win 2–0" - Link striker
 * Thanks, obvious to me, perhaps not to others, linked. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In the Chelsea section, you state the leagues all of their opponents other than Leicester City and Southampton, can you add the leagues for the latter two?
 * Same again, done, assumption on my behalf. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "a late goal from the United midfielder Nemanja Matić" - Link midfielder
 * Likewise, done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "Mourinho was unrepentant in defeat: " - I'm questioning the use of unrepentant here. At least in American English, unrepentant indicates that some wrongdoing has occurred, and that's not really the case here.
 * Indignant then, as he is saying his opponents didn't deserve to win. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "Chelsea returned to Wembley to contest the 2020 FA Cup Final where they lost 2–1 to Arsenal" - Convince me this is relevant
 * It was the next time the club featured in a prestige final at Wembley, these are rare occasions. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "Conte was sacked by Chelsea in July 2018" - Why, in particulary?
 * Interestingly, when he was sacked, Chelsea just released a 61-word statement thanking him for his service. I cover the fact there was speculation around his position in the Background section without making too many bold original researchy claims. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Consider adding a short description.
 * Done, although I'm a self-confessed non-expert at that so I'm sure it could be better. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

There's not much to pick on here, at least from my non-expert eyes, although it's possibly I missed something through ignorance. Hog Farm Bacon 22:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks very much, I've addressed and/or responded to all your comments, I appreciate a non-expert view on it. Cheers.  The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 08:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Source review - Pass

 * Very consistent formatting with the refs, no issues there. The archive links are appreciated
 * All from reliable news sources
 * Not much to say here... I spot checked 6, 14/15, 24, 33, 40 and 46 – all checked out. Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * thank you very much. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 20:24, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Support from Dweller

 * Who/how decided man of the match? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The source doesn't provide that information. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Did another team qualify for Europe as a result of Chelsea's double qualification? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:37, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Gooners. Added. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * the "seventh attempt" implies he was trying to lose. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Rephrased. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "third full season without winning silverware" - in a row? ever? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ever. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Conte's sacking needs some kind of gloss from a RS, because it seems perverse for a cup-winning manaager to be sacked, presumably (not stated) before they'd played another game. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:12, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I already discuss his position was in debate in the Background section. What do you suggest? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I missed it, it was so brief: "Speculation had surrounded Conte's position as Chelsea manager for several months. He confirmed that his future with the club would be clarified after the FA Cup Final." No explanation why and appears to be fairly banal, but wasn't. Could we add when we say he was sacked something explanatory that parallels the Mourinho sacking? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Well here's a thing but it's a little lurid and "Sky Sports sources" may not be the best encyclopedic approach. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 15:49, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * cheers, responded to all. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;) 14:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Support irrespective of the outcome of the final bit of chitchat here. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

-- Laser brain  (talk)  17:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)