Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Carnaby's black cockatoo/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 23:47, 10 March 2017.

Carnaby's black cockatoo

 * Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) and 23:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

This article is about an endangered cockatoo. We feel it is within striking distance of FA status and promise to answer queries promptly. Have at it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Comments from FunkMonk

 * Unfortunately, none of the photos used give good a view of the bird. Maybe consider putting this full view somewhere (perhaps under conservation)? The arm is unfortunate, but it seems to be the best view. FunkMonk (talk) 09:23, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * sigh. I have put it in...guess we just have to live with the arm... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Authorities for the synonyms?
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps consider cropping this upright image? I'm not sure all the grass at top and bottom adds anything?
 * agree cropping is a good idea. Late here, will get to it tomorrow...(sound of head hitting pillow...) zzzzz.. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * "known collectively as the white-tailed black cockatoo" What was the scientific name?
 * C. baudinii Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The taxonomic situation seems somewhat contentious. Has no genetic work been done since the 1984 study?
 * Nothing that really focusses on them - there is 2011 study of all cockatoos that has them as a recent split. But gives no dates nor discusses them really Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:49, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * More a standardisation issue, why is the conservation section a sub-section of the distribution section? In virtually all other FAs, it is a separate section, at the bottom of the article.
 * My own preference is a part of distribution, but I guess it is more complex and have gone with the flow and moved it... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * "Its beak is shorter and broader than that of the closely related and similar long-billed black cockatoo" Are there no other differences?
 * added differences here Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * You only give binomials for all plants, why not animal species?
 * laziness. added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:37, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * What is the colour of the egg?
 * Added RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; Edits  23:14, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * "fell by over 50% over 45 years" Could one "over" maybe be reworded? Across?
 * Changed second "over" to "in". RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; Edits  23:21, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * "grow by 70% by 2050." Also seems repetitive. Is the first "by" needed?
 * Changed to "increase 70% by 2050". RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; Edits  23:17, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * "Since European settlement" Maybe give date for this, for context?
 * I have piped this to Swan River Colony, which dates it as 1829 and discusses Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * "had been lost" Why past tense here? Before that, you sday for example "habitat has been cleared"
 * Corrected RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; Edits  23:10, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * After these, I'll support. I was a bit disappointed there was no photo that showed the crest, this seems to be our only such photos, if you want to show it: FunkMonk (talk) 09:24, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - nice to get some focus on endangered species. FunkMonk (talk) 19:15, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Image review - all images are properly licensed and sourced. I would still consider cropping the photo under feeding. FunkMonk (talk) 19:17, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim
I've seen this in the wild, so I'd better review Jimfbleak - talk to me?
 * bone coloured x2&mdash;I'd hyphenate
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * until the next breeding season, and sometimes even longer. The family will, after the breeding season, leave the nest until the next breeding season. &mdash;over seasoned
 * pruned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Names recorded include ngolyenok, ngoolyoo (from Northampton), G’noo-le-a (from Geraldton), and Gnowl-ya (from the eastern part of Shark Bay).[8] &mdash;the languages are?
 * the whole region is Nyungar language, and the paper mentions this and does not specify any other languages or dialects for names Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:08, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * markedly different plumage, whereas those of the former have similar plumage. &mdash;avoid repeated plumage
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * They can be distinguished by their constant begging calls&mdash;add "also"
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * single noted whistle&mdash;I'd hyphenate
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * They can be agile, manoeuvring quickly if startled or disturbed. In contrast, it waddles
 * I think it sounded better to pluralise after flocks, so pluralized the latter. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * eating the larvae of invertebrates such as wood-boring insects and moths off rare plants. &mdash;Why are the larvae of wood-boring insects on the surface?
 * changed to 'from' Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * First they chew through the stem holding the item before holding it with its foot and tearing bits off and extracting the seed.
 * changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * It is also susceptible to nematodes of the genus Ascaris if they are in cages that have open dirt flooring ''&mdash;also add "in captivity"
 * Done RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; Edits  22:55, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I assume that one of you will fix the outstanding item about the languages, so changed to support above on that basis Jimfbleak - talk to me?  07:19, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Support Comments from Aa77zz
Lead
 * "the young can usually be seen to fledge ten to eleven weeks after hatching." why not "the young fledge ten to eleven weeks after hatching." simpler and avoids another "usually/generally".
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:39, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Taxonomy and naming
 * I find the order of this section a little awkward. The discussion on the taxonomy and the names are mixed up. Perhaps it would be better to discuss the taxonomy and then the names.
 * I have put the names at the bottom now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:21, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Observation - no action required: It is curious that Ian Carnaby as the author of ref 2 is listed as J.C. Carnaby. see here
 * yeah, I noticed that...a misprint? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:15, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * "These birds lived in mallee and sandplains" - mallee links to a specific region (the Mallee)- can mallee refer to a type of landscape/vegetation?
 * Yes—changed link RileyBugz Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:55, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * "form the other subgenus, Calyptorhynchus." but Calyptorhynchus is the genus - perhaps "form the other subgenus of Calyptorhynchus."
 * changed to "form the nominate subgenus of Calyptorhynchus" RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:59, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * err, they are within the subgenus Calyptorhynchus within the genus Calyptorhynchus - will change sorry my bad/nice fix Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Description
 * "closely related and similar long-billed black cockatoo" - but wouldn't Baudin's black cockatoo be better here.
 * Changed RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  22:57, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Distribution and habitat
 * "mostly within the wheatbelt" - shouldn't this be "mostly within the Wheatbelt region"? It is mentioned and linked in the Status and conservation section below.
 * linked at first instance now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Feeding
 * Gnangara - need link to Gnangara, Western Australia
 * Added RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:49, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Pinjar - need link to Pinjar, Western Australia
 * Added RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:49, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Breeding
 * Is any nest material used?
 * Could not find. RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:45, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Are the chicks fed by both sexes?
 * Added RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  21:47, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * How long do Carnaby's black cockatoos live? The ABBBS Database http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/biodiversity/abbbs/abbbs-search.pl gives a maximum recorded age of 25 year 10.8 months. (The average age is just over 4 years but the database is small - only 74 recoveries.) (The HBW alive article on the Short-billed Black-cockatoo mentions 19 years) Aa77zz (talk) 17:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Cockatoos are generally long-lived, so I suspect this is low maximum age is the result of the undersampling. Will have to think of how to incorporate it without using OR but showing thus. MOre later Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 1 March 2017 (UTC) Funnily enough, the other black cockies have even fewer records! Added now. I will peruse to see if we can add a covering note about longevity Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:47, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Additional comments
 * What is the current estimated total population? "The 2016 Great Cocky Count counted 10,919 Carnaby's black cockatoos," The IUCN mention c.40,000 in 2012.
 * Added estimated total population. RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  23:10, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The birdlife.org.au document on the 2016 Great Cocky Count claims that "The minimum population count for Carnaby’s Black ‐ Cockatoo in the Greater Perth‐Peel Region was 11,418 (around twice the average for 2010 ‐ 15)." This suggests that either the population is increasing - or more likely - the counting is improving. This doesn't appear to support the claim in the article that "indicating the population had declined by 50% on the Perth–Peel Coastal Plain since 2010, dropping by around 10% each year.[22]"
 * I've now read more of the 2016 Great Cocky Count article. Page 5 has "Trend analysis of roost counts for Carnaby’s Black ‐ Cockatoo in the Perth ‐ Peel Coastal Plain found significant declines in both the fraction of occupied roosts and average flock size over the past seven Great Cocky Counts (2010 ‐ 2016)." but adds "This trend estimate should be treated with some caution," Later in the page the total population is estimated at 40,000. I think this number should be mentioned in the article. - Aa77zz (talk) 18:33, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Ref 22 "New report reveals..." the link gives a blank page for me. - Aa77zz (talk) 18:12, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * found new location and changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm happy. Supported above. - Aa77zz (talk) 15:19, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Support from Hawkeye7
My first reaction was that they're wrecking my tree. But on reading the article it's a different species of black cocky. The lead picture is beautiful.
 * Source review
 * I have moved three books down to the Cited Texts, and used a little magic to make the Forshaw reference like the rest.
 * Random check of footnotes. FN 1, 8, 18, 26, 31, 34, 36 all okay
 * FN 24: The author was wrong. Corrected.
 * FN 30: Missing access date. Added today's date.
 * FN 35: The URL was wrong. I have replaced it with the correct link. All other links are working. Footnote verified.
 * FN 41: Don't doubt it but cannot see it. Can you point me to it?
 * Sure, it says "PSITTACIFORMES spp. (Except the species included in Appendix I and Agapornis roseicollis, Melopsittacus undulatus, Nymphicus hollandicus and Psittacula krameri, which are not included in the Appendices)" are all in column II - use contrl-F and you will see text. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:29, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:57, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Support on sources. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:56, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the source review! RileyBugz <sup style="color:#D7000B;">Yell at me  &#124; <sub style="color:#D7000B;">Edits  01:34, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Coordinator note: We have a lot of support here, but I'd just like to let this run for a few more days to see if there is any further comment. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Understandable/no probs from me Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:07, 9 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Support with comment - and Gnowl-ya (from the eastern part of Shark Bay). - neither this species nor Baudin's black cockatoo are found anywhere near Shark Bay according to the maps on their pages, so what gives? Sabine's Sunbird   talk  08:47, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * dunno...a vagrant?? Much more likely to be this than Baudin's...ok maybe best to remove it I did remove it as it seemed just silly... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Sarastro1 (talk) 23:47, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.