Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cley Marshes/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 12:47, 3 September 2012.

Cley Marshes

 * Nominators:  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?, MeegsC.talk

Thomas Telford, three Bishops, and dancing Italian prisoners of war; there's more to Cley than just the birds. Thanks to Dank for improvements. This was delayed in production by watching continuous multi-channel live Olympics, but here it is  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  16:14, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)
 * Thanks for ce, you have spotted infelicities that we have missed despite countless re-readings  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "The reserve can be reached by public transport using the CoastHopper bus service ... It is open daily from 10 am to 4:30 or 5:00 pm": Since the visitor centre gets 100K visitors annually, I'm sure there are a lot of readers who will want this information; still, the article lost its gravitas for me at this point. I'm wondering if this information could perhaps go in a caption (if you can find an image with that bus in it), or in the infobox.
 * I've dropped opening hours and Coasthopper, although I think it's reasonable to state that there is public transport to the reserve in the text.


 * "with free access to NWT members": FWIW, I'm against including pricing information. You can link to Wikitravel, and of course you do link to the official site.
 * I think it's reasonable to indicate whether access to any publicly accessible building or land is free or not. I can't see that stating free or paid is actually pricing information, although I accept that it would be wrong to say "entry is £4 to non-members"  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "the NWT was attempting to raise £1 million ... This purchase would create a unified 8 km (5 mi) stretch of NWT-owned coastal land": If they don't know where the money might come from, and if they're not under legal or contractual obligation on how they could spend the money if they raised it, then IMO there's a WP:CRYSTALBALL problem here. - Dank (push to talk) 03:14, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed to indicate that it is a specific public appeal to buy that land. Since it's made clear in the appeal leaflet (source) what the point of this purchase is, it would seem perverse to say they are trying to buy the adjacent land without saying why, although I've dropped the improved facilities bit.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "has a specialist binocular and telescope shop nearby", "The equivalent of 52 full-time jobs in the Cley area": gravitas again.
 * removed shop stuff, left in the 52 FTE jobs, since that's quite a significant economic impact on a small village  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "To compensate, the Environment Agency and the Norfolk Wildlife Trust are working to make a new wetland near Hilgay. The 60-hectare (150-acre) Hilgay Wetland Creation Project will convert former farmland": CRYSTALBALL here, too ... are they legally or contractually obligated to do this? Where's the money coming from? Or is this someone's projection or opinion, and if so, whose? - Dank (push to talk) 04:12, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've separated out the fact of the EA/NWT Hilgay project, which has already started (added date), from the Wissey Living Landscape plan, which I think I have now made clear is the long-term overall context for inland developments  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope these changes have addressed your concerns. Thanks again for the review, copyedit and previous help  Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. (Edits may take several days to show up on that page.) - Dank (push to talk) 11:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for all your help and for your support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure Jim, happy to help. Keep writing great articles :) - Dank (push to talk) 12:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * Ref for Clactonian flints?
 * Oops, covered by preceding ref, now moved to follow this too <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * FN12: page formatting
 * space added <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether you include only one or all authors in shortened citations
 * Both names for Harrup & Redman now, multiple authors et al-ed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * FN8: what kind of source is this?
 * Yes, short form doesn't really work, expanded as full ref to report <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * FN11: don't italicize date
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * FN23: double-check publisher. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Added LLP. If I'm missing something else here, I'm not sure what it is, every page of the website has LSI Architects LLP <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't notice the LLP, actually - was just wondering what an "architech" was. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'm a moron! Obviously mentally conflating archi...tech...nician <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for performing this vital and thankless task. With all the FAs I've written, I could kick myself for still making errors in refs <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments: I started reading this last week but got distracted by wiki-drama. I'm most of the way through it now, but here are my comments on the first half.
 * Check for consistency with the serial comma, I see "protected through Natura 2000, Special Protection Area (SPA) and Ramsar listings" and then "footpaths next to the A149 and down the East Bank, the beach, and the road running from the beach".
 * Fixed to BE style <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I see "In the mid-nineteenth century," but then "by the end of the 20th century" later in the article.
 * Good spot, spelt out for both now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "locals were looking for food, but some "Gentleman Gunners" hunted to collect rare birds. One of the best known was E. C. Arnold, who collected for more than fifty years, and gave his name to the marsh at the north-east corner of the present reserve." Was Arnold a local or a gunner? The use of "collected" makes me think a gunner, but you might want to clarify.
 * added "of the latter". I suspect he was local as well to spend so much time there, but I don't know <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "It has won a number of awards including the Emirates Glass LEAF International award for sustainability." Are the awards all environmental or were some given for other reasons?
 * Added link to LEAF Award, made it cleat that this is one category of the architectural awards <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "The reserve is considered to be one of the UK's best wetlands, and has been referred to as "a Mecca for birdwatchers"." One of the best wetlands for birdwatchers? Or one of the best in general?
 * Removed first clause, the multiple protections make this redundant <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "As of 2012, Billy's son, Bernard, who was appointed in 1978, was still in post." "was still in post" sounds odd, not sure if it's just me though.
 * I was trying to avoid repeating "warden again", changed to "managing the reserve" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * More to follow soon, hopefully. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review and comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure you need the conversion for "The shoreline itself was hundreds of metres (yards) north" & "The spit is moving towards the mainland at about 1 m (1 yd) per year", but I would suggest one for "including two 6-inch guns".
 * Done, I've kept the 6-inch first because, well, that's what they were. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "In the autumn, birds arrive from the north; some, such as Whimbrels, Curlew Sandpipers and Little Stints, just pausing for a few days to refuel before continuing south, others staying for the winter." Is the semicolon being used correctly here?
 * No, now two sentences <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You also want to check the serial comma when you're listing all the species.
 * I think I've found them all <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "The site is generally rich in plants, especially those that can cope with saline environments, but three species appear to have been lost; divided sedge was last recorded in 1999, grey hair-grass in 1982 and lax-flowered sea lavender in 1977." I'd consider a colon instead of a semicolon here.
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "As of 2012, the NWT launched a public appeal to raise £1 million" I'd probably just say "In 2012" here, unless I'm missing something. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just an aberration <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks again! <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  20:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Support great job, sorry it took me so long to finish the review, but I'm satisfied that it meets the criteria. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:09, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Mark, much appreciated <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:18, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Image check. All images have appropriate licences, including check of original licences at Geograph. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC) Support. Lovely article. I note that the conservation plan is for managed retreat, much like the British economy ;-) hamiltonstone (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the image check, review support and LOL <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  17:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.