Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Joking Apart


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 02:58, 21 October 2008.

Joking Apart

 * Nominator: The JPS (talk)
 * previous FAC (00:24, 24 April 2008)

It's comprehensive, stable, well referenced, neutral, etc. Non-free images with full rationales, and a couple of free images too. Since its last nomination, it has undergone an extensive copyedit by User:Gosgood (whose skill and politeness are highly appreciated). The JPS talk to me  17:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, the opening section ends with "The first series was released in May 2006, and the second on 17 March 2008." I think this refers to the DVD release, I would have thought that the broadcast dates would be more relevant, perhaps with "and subsequently released on DVD".  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  21:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also is Johnathon Barlow a mispelling of Jonathan Barlow? I know there are some people who spell the name Jonathon, but I've never heard of a Johnathon.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  22:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your observations and tweaks. I've removed the sentence with the DVD release dates as it is probably too much detail for the lead. I've kept the "One fan acquired the rights..." sentence, though, as there is a significant chunk of the article about that. You're right about Jonathon: checked the credits, and corrected. Tweaked the lead slightly to incorporate the years of broadcast (exact date within the article). The JPS talk to me  22:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, that's my points finished, good luck with the FAC.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  23:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * What makes http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/comedy/jokingapart.htm (ref #2) a reliable source?
 * As covered in the first FAC, the author of this article, Graham Kibble-White, is an established writer (a lot of results on Amazon.co.uk) The JPS talk to me  08:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Is http://www.richardherring.com/press/press.php?id=10 (ref #9) reliable?
 * The article was first published in The Guardian, and is reprinted on the official website of its author. Richard Herring is a well established writer and broadcaster. The JPS talk to me  08:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * What makes http://www.sci-fi-online.com/2008_reviews/dvd/08-03-17_jokingapart1.htm (ref #21) reliable?
 * As with the other review sites below, these are magazine-style sites. They do not seem to fall into Verifiability, especially since what they are being used to support is not controversial. The JPS talk to me  08:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ditto with http://www.sci-fi-online.com/2008_reviews/dvd/08-03-17_jokingapart2.htm (ref #40)
 * As with the same site's series one review, it does not seem to breech WP:RS, particularly as it does not supporting any controversial/BLP issues. The JPS talk to me 


 * Another: http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=67220 (ref #45).
 * Clearly a self-reference is unacceptable. I'm confused, though, as neither #45 or the surrounding ones point to this? The JPS talk to me  08:05, 10
 * Sorry, I posted the wrong URL. The correct one is http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=67220 –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  14:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. My answer above covers all of the review links. They don't seem to breech WP:RS, particularly as they are not supporting any controversial/BLP issues. The JPS talk to me  15:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Is http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=67219 (ref #58) reliable?
 * Does not seem to breech WP:RS, particularly as it does not supporting any controversial/BLP issues. The JPS talk to me 
 * Okay, seems fine then. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  21:58, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't mix citation with cite news, cite web, cite episode, or a variation.
 * Do you know where the instance of this is, as I can't see it (a 'search' in Notebook shows no results). I see it's on the list of templates on the bottom, but I don't think it's in the actual text? The JPS talk to me  08:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, the only one that uses citation is ref #55. –Juliancolton Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  14:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

–Juliancolton <sup style="color:#666660;">Tropical <sup style="color:#666660;">Cyclone  00:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Notebook must have been lying to me. Changed to cite magazine. The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  15:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments  from
 * "The show attracted a small audience because of scheduling problems, yet it scored highly on the Appreciation Index and it accrued a loyal fanbase."
 * "One fan acquired the rights from the BBC and released both series on his own DVD label." What type of rights?
 * "Separating from his wife, Moffat was going through a difficult period and aspects of it colored his creative output." Add an "As he was" to the beginning of that sentence.
 * "Moffat scripted all sorts of unfortunate things for the Magboy character, such as having a typewriter drop on his foot."-->Moffat scripted unfortunate situations for the Magboy character, such as having a typewriter drop on his foot.
 * "Various episodes of Coupling played with structure, such as the fourth series episode "9½ Minutes" which showed the same events from three perspectives." The episodes didn't play with the structure, did they?
 * "Mark is quick-witted, and the stand-up sequences serve to show that he thinks in one-liners."-->Mark is quick-witted, and the stand-up indicate that he thinks in one-liners.
 * "They have a baby, which is seen or referred to occasionally." "which"-->who.
 * "We are shown Becky and Mark's first date, and then going back to her flat." No first person pronouns should be used in articles.
 * "In his overview of Moffat's celebrated Press Gang, Paul Cornell says that..." I would change says to said to keep the tense consistent in the paragraph.
 * "While the transmission of series two was still being delayed by BBC 2 controller Michael Jackson" Dabomb87 (talk) 03:33, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these helpful copyediting comments. I highly value how you have taken the time to offer alternatives. I've enacted all of your suggestions, apart from the Coupling comparison. The first series of JA plays with narrative structure, albeit less gimmicky than Coupling. The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  08:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "The pilot from Comic Asides is also included on Disc 2, along with a complete set of Series Two script pdfs..." Write the full name for "pdfs" on its first appearance.
 * "The second series followed a more linear structure, though retaining the stand-up sequences."-->The second series followed a more linear structure, although it retained the stand-up sequences.
 * "Mark meets Becky in a newsagents"—A typo? Needs a comma after "newsagents" or whatever that word is supposed to be.
 * "It is practically identical to the first episode of the series proper: some scenes are even reused, notably the scene with Mark and Becky meeting when he accidentally turns up at a funeral." Colon needs to be a semicolon.
 * "The reused footage gives rise to the first episode's shared director credit between Spiers and Kilby." Change "give" to gave for tense consistency within the paragraphs. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the second batch. Done all, about from 'newsagents', which is a legitimate word in British English for a specific type of shop: Newsagents. The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  13:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

comment - this is an odd article it has a number of excellent free images complete with OTRS tags, which is very good. However with the exception of the infobox image, I can see none of the remaining non-free images meeting WP:NFCC, and thus meeting Featured arcticle criteria #3 Fasach Nua (talk) 15:38, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd definitely like to keep Image:Joking Apart - Robert Bathurst.jpg since it's an image that opens nearly every episode and is referred to within the article. The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  17:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, NFCC#3 states "Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information." A title screenshot is completely different in nature to an image of the major characters, and it is very unlikely that all the characters appear in one frame (with the exception of copyrighted publicity material). The article talks extensively about these characters, and it is important for them to be shown to completely fulfill the FAC#2 criteria of being "comprehensive" to a reader who probably hasn't seen this series. Bob talk 21:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed two of the images. Not that it'll make much difference. The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  09:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Giggy's comments based on this version Giggy (talk) 02:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "The show attracted a small audience because of scheduling problems" - IMO, the current wording suggests the problems were what earned it its audience. That's probably not what you intend to say.
 * "Moffat scripted unfortunate situations for the Magboy character, such as having a typewriter drop on his foot." - reading the first part of the sentence, I expected something more dramatic, especially the context it's put in (breaking up with wife, etc.)
 * "Recording for the first series of six episodes began on location in the first half of April 1992[11] and were mainly filmed in Chelsea within a short distance from the director's home" - read literally, the "were" refers to "recording"... needs a slight reword.
 * "were normally pretty quick" - a bit too informal for an encyclopedia, IMO
 * Some words like editing, tightening, recording, etc. should be wikilinked at least once
 * Are you saying you don't know the title of the article for ref 18? (David Gritten, Daily Telegraph)
 * I doubt the images in the Characters section meet WP:NFCC
 * "she 'wins' an impromptu one-liner contest" - should those be proper quotation marks?
 * "They are initially Becky's friends, but they become friends with Mark too" --> "They are initially Becky's friends, but soon befriend Mark" or something like that
 * "which, according to the writer, he now admits that he was wrong" - doesn't make sense, remove the "that he" and see if that works
 * Thanks for these. I've enacted most. I'm leaving the Magboy one: "unfortunate" is a tame word that I don't think invites high drama. 'Having a typewriter dropped on one's foot is unfortunate: whereas it might be somewhat of an understatement if it were more dramatic. I've wikilinked editing: the other terms you mention don't have appropriate articles.  The JPS <sup style="color:purple;">talk to me  18:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Support per above comments. Giggy (talk) 23:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, has been thoroughly reviewed and revised by all concerned, and appears comprehensive and readable. Bob talk 17:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. I've watched the time and effort that The JPS and others have put into this article to turn it into an example of just how we should (but don't) do articles on television series. This is now the cream of the crop of TV-related articles and certainly rivals other FAs in terms of Wikipedia's criteria. ➨ ❝ЯEDVERS❞ will never be anybody's hero now 20:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.