Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kenneth Horne/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:01, 9 February 2014 (UTC).

Kenneth Horne

 * Nominator(s): SchroCat (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Kenneth Horne was a damned funny man. A talented sportsman in his youth, a well-respected businessman and a cast member of three hugely popular BBC radio series, Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh (1944–51), Beyond Our Ken (1958–64) and Round the Horne (1965–68). His work is still popular, and Round the Horne is popular in audiobook form, and is still repeated on BBC radio; a 2002 survey to find listeners' favourite British comedian placed Horne third, behind Tony Hancock and Spike Milligan. A good peer review here saw the odd wrinkles ironed out. I hope reviewers enjoy reading about such a colourful character as much as I have enjoyed writing about him. - SchroCat (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support on prose. Very solid piece of work, and it's just gotten more polished since my PR. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for all your comments, both at the PR and here. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * Long quotes like "He was an unselfish performer..." should be blockquoted
 * Be consistent in whether you include locations for newspapers - you generally do, but FN92 doesn't
 * Similarly, most books include location, but Johnston and Williams do not. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * All done: many thanks for taking the time to go through this. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:43, 30 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Support. Just for once I know quite a bit about the subject of an FAC, and I am relieved to report that I can find nothing to carp at. An interesting story, well told, excellently sourced and cited. Very pleased indeed to support its promotion to FA. Tim riley (talk) 14:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Huge amounts of thanks for all your ongoing efforts on this - all very much appreciated! Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 15:28, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Cassianto

Sorry for not being there at the PR, these are my efforts...
 * "By 1913 Silvester was suffering from continual poor health, and he resigned his position at the tabernacle on medical advice in January 1914, intending to resign his parliamentary seat." --"intending to resign"? This last part doesn't quite sound right. "and intended to resign" would sound better.
 * "he was able to attend Magdalene College, Cambridge and entered the university in October 1926." -- This could be shortened to "he was able to enroll at Magdalene College, Cambridge in October 1926."
 * "He threw himself into the sporting side of life..." Does not sound encyclopedic enough for me. He committed himself to sport" would sound better.
 * "a liking for squash, tennis and golf and for dancing" -- "a liking for squash, tennis, golf and dancing" rolls off the tongue much more easily.


 * All done so far: many thanks for taking the time to do this: very much appreciated! Cheers -SchroCat (talk) 11:43, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Service in the RAF
 * "In the initial months of the conflict, the Phoney War, Horne's duties were undemanding..." -- I have tried, but I cannot make sense of this. Is "the conflict" the Phoney War?
 * "Horne was ordered to put on the show, and he made his broadcasting debut on 16 April 1942, acting as compere." -- "Horne was ordered to put on the show, and he made his broadcasting debut on 16 April 1942, as the compere."
 * "Flight lieutenant Richard Murdoch..." -- If my memory serves me correctly, should the rank be capitalised when a name follows? If so, the "L" is missing.

Postwar, a double career: 1945–58
 * "On his return to civilian life, Horne resumed working at Triplex, promoted to the position of Sales Director." -- "On his return to civilian life, Horne resumed working at Triplex, and was promoted to the position of Sales Director."
 * Sorry to stick oar in, but I have just noticed that you capitalise Sales Director here but not managing director later. Lower case is better, I think. Tim riley (talk) 20:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree: lower case now rules to roost. - SchroCat (talk) 21:16, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh had gained sufficient interest and popularity over its run of 20 Merry-go-Round episodes that it was given its own 39-week series beginning January 1947." -- "Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh had gained sufficient interest and popularity over its run of 20 Merry-go-Round episodes that it was given its own 39-week series beginning in January 1947."
 * I would query the grammar in "had gained sufficient interest and popularity over its run of 20 Merry-go-Round episodes that it was given..." I would replace "that" with "to be", and perhaps delete "interest and", since interest is trumped by popularity.  Brianboulton (talk) 21:22, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "Horne was offered and accepted the position of managing director..." -- Just "Horne accepted the position of managing director" would do I think.
 * "Horne received several attractive invitations" -- "Horne received several attractive job invitations"
 * I'd say that "job offers" is more idiomatic. On close examination, "job invitations" doesn't quite make sense. Brianboulton (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep - reads well with this form: now adopted. - SchroCat (talk) 21:16, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "on popular Saturday evening comedy and music radio show Variety Playhouse" -- "on the popular Saturday evening comedy and music radio show Variety Playhouse"
 * "and, in the spring, to appear in an increasing number of other programmes." -- "and, in the spring, appeared in an increasing number of other programmes."
 * "After his work on Variety Playhouse finished" -- "After his work on Variety Playhouse had finished"
 * All covered, bar one, which I'm just checking out . Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 20:38, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

A single career: 1958–69
 * Do we need to repeat 1958 in close succession in the opening two sentences?
 * "debilitating stroke"? Aren't all strokes kind of debilitating?
 * A mild one wouldn't be too debilitating. - SchroCat (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "In April 1961 Horne..." -- I reckon we could use a pronoun here.
 * "As a result, he did not appear in the Round the Horne Christmas special. He returned to work in January 1967 to record the third series of Round the Horne." -- Do we need to repeat Round the Horne? Or can we leave it at "third series"? In fact, looking at these two paragraphs, we use Round The Horne quite a lot, could these be trimmed?

Death and tributes
 * "Because of his heart condition, Horne had been prescribed an anticoagulant, but had stopped taking it on the advice of a faith healer.[102] He died of a heart attack..." -- Horne and not the faith healer?


 * All done, bar one: thanks very much for taking the time and effort over this review - much appreciated! - SchroCat (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Support – I see nothing else. Wonderful stuff! --  Cassianto Talk   19:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your time and effort here - your comments are, as always, hugely welcome and very pertinent. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 19:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Image review
 * Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
 * File:Sam_Costa_2_radio_personality121.jpg: do we have an approximate date for this photo? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Full stops removed (I always forget that one!); no idea on the Costa date, although I could hazard a rough guess: the image was provided by his grand-nephew without too many other details, unfortunately. Many thanks for picking up on the images here Nikki - much appreciated" - SchroCat (talk) 19:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Comment: I had my major say at the peer review. I then cheekily inserted a couple of points into Cassianto's review, above. I've read the article again, did a few prose fixes, and have a handful of further issues:
 * "who became both the Master of the Rolls in 1907, and Baron Cozens-Hardy on 1 July 1914." You can apply "both" to events that occur more or less simultaneously, but not to appointments seven years apart. Delete "both the", and the comma after 1907.
 * "Silvester was a Congregationalist minister at the Whitefield's Tabernacle, Tottenham Court Road, the Liberal MP for Ipswich and a powerful orator." I don't think "a Congregationalist minister at the Whitefield's Tabernacle" really does justice to Silvester's standing in the Congregational movement – see his ODNB entry (chairman of the Cong. Union in Eng & W, etc) Also you should give the dates that he served as Ipswich's MP (1910–14)
 * "as a border"??? (boarder)
 * He was a bit edgy...? - SchroCat (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Most readers will have to use links to find out who people such as Bunny Austin and Lord Burghley are. Why not briefly introduce them, e.g. "the future Wimbledon finalist", "the Olympic gold medallist", etc. People who have to keep leaving the article to follow links may not return.
 * "very modest salary" is a bit directive. just "modest" will do
 * "he would accompany" → "he accompanied" (and as he was only the head of BIF for a year, "annual visits" doesn't seem right)
 * "it was described by the Radio Times as 'five characters in search of the authors' " I remember this from the peer review. I didn't know what it meant then, and I'm still puzzled as to what it is meant to convey.
 * Removed: it didn't add much in the way of clarity without excessive explanation. - SchroCat (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Further thoughts on a sentence you've amended since the peer review: "The televised recording of the event omitted the incident, bridging the gap with announcer Michael Aspel saying, "Mr Horne was taken ill at this point and has since died." I'm a bit puzzled by "bridging the gap"; this implies that the recording was briefly interrupted by Aspel's announcement, then continued with the awards presentations with a replacement host. I find it hard to believe that is what happened. Can you enlighten?
 * "never resorted to blue comedy" Hmm, he was a bit near the knuckle on some occasions! ("master of the scandalous double-meaning")
 * He was, but never crossed the line - or at least that's the way I've taken the quote to mean. - SchroCat (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Happy to support when these are addressed. Brianboulton (talk) 23:56, 2 February 2014 (UTC)


 * All addressed (hopefully satisfactorily!) Many thanks for all your help and comments both here and at PR. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Support: I have adjusted the "Congregationalist" sentence a bit, and have moved Austin's description to his first mention. Otherwise, as you say, you have satisfactorily addressed my concerns. A fine biography of a memorable subject. Brianboulton (talk) 10:14, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that final edit: much better all round now! Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 14:36, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Support Definitely looks to be good enough, excellent work!♦ Dr. Blofeld  21:38, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That's very good of you - thank you for taking the time to go through and comment: much appreciated! - SchroCat (talk) 21:44, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 13:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.