Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mind Meld/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2015 (UTC).

Mind Meld

 * Nominator(s): Neelix (talk) 23:59, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

This article is about a 2001 documentary film in which William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy discuss Star Trek and its effects on their lives. The article has undergone a copyedit by a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, and has passed a good article nomination. I have searched through several journal databases to ensure that the sourcing of this article is comprehensive. It is unfortunate that Shatner's alleged flatulence is the most commonly discussed element of this film in the literature, but we must be true to the sources. Neelix (talk) 23:59, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed and captioned. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:40, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Jaguar
I'll mainly focus on prose issues although I might check some of the references if there are any problems with them. I'm certain somebody else will check the more technical points to this article but for now I'll list what I see here... I reviewed this GAN when Leonard Nimoy was still alive :'( ☯ Jag  uar  ☯ 21:00, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "that Nimoy first publicly revealed that he had struggled with alcoholism while he was acting in Star Trek: The Original Series" - I think that Star Trek could be safely cut to avoid repitition of "Star Trek: The Original Series" in the lead, what do you think? I'm not too sure on this...
 * I have shortened the phrase to The Original Series. This solution retains the specificity while avoiding the wordiness. What do you think? Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It works well, thanks! ☯ Jag  uar  ☯ 15:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The third paragraph in the lead could open on what overall critics thought about the film. For example something like "Mind Meld was recieved mixed/negative reviews from critics and fans..." etc?
 * Done. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Furthermore the reception paragraph in the lead mentions nothing on how the video quality was praised and the criticicms on the DVD functionality and features (which is mentioned in the reception section)
 * I have swapped this sentence with the one about Blame It on the Dog, thereby also de-emphasizing the flatulence topic. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "They only mention one of these cast members by name: Nichelle Nichols, who portrayed Nyota Uhura" - is this refering to the Original Series cast or any of the six films?
 * I have reworded the previous sentence so the Original Series cast is specified. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "Nimoy had expressed concern about Kidd's alcoholism and warned Shatner about marrying her. Shatner says that he is conscious of his own mortality" - did he say this after Nimoy warned him of his wife? This sounds like a direct reply
 * I have reordered these sentences so the mortality comment doesn't sound like a reply to Nimoy's warning. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "which offers such features as the Shatner and Friends fanclub's quarterly newsletter" - should this be "such as the" or is it comparing Shatner's website to the quarterly newsletter? Or is that newsletter part of Shatner's website? I'm confused!
 * I have reworded this sentence to make it clear that the newsletter is one of the features offered on the webite. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "even though Nimoy is only four days older than Shatner" - but Shatner is older than Nimoy?
 * Thank you for catching this mistake! I have corrected it. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * "In the film, Shatner referred to Star Trek: The Original Series as "cartoonish" - is this part of Mind Meld itself or Wil Wheaton's EarnestBorg9?
 * I have moved the sentence about EarnestBorg9 elsewhere to avoid the confusion. Neelix (talk) 01:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestions, Jaguar! If you have any more, I would be glad to receive them. Neelix (talk) 01:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for addressing them all Neelix! I think I was going to leave some more comments last night but having looked through the article again now (as well as seeing the improvements made) I think that those are most (if not all) of the glaring prose issues out of the way. Some of them were minor. I'm happy with the prose side of things, so I will support this transition from GA to FA. It's a good article, and I think it has a real chance of passing this FAC. I checked the references during the GAR and they all appeared to be formatted correctly. No doubt somebody else will check them over again, but in the mean time good luck! ☯ Jag  uar  ☯ 15:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Cliftonian feedback
Support. Delegates please note that I have carried out a source review in the capped section below (including a couple spotchecks, but mostly not). —  Cliftonian   (talk)  13:19, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Support
Well put together article - like the mix of reviews given.--Iztwoz (talk) 18:09, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments from JM
Happy to offer some thoughts. I'm no Trekkie, but did watch a lot of Voyager (sorry) as a kid.
 * "An unintended sound in one scene of the film became a popular subject of flatulence humor among Star Trek fans and on morning zoo radio programs. Shatner denied being the source of this sound in multiple interviews; he and Mind Meld's director, Peter Jaysen, attributed it to equipment on set." This seems to come out of nowhere; perhaps you could open with something like "The film is remembered for..." or "The film attracted some notoriety" or something.
 * Direct quotes always need citations, even in the lead and image captions
 * Be aware of MOS:LQ- I changed one but self-reverted. I thought it better to leave it to you.
 * ""It took me a while," he says, "but I got rid of all that anger when I realized that I never had to worry about work ever since Star Trek went on the air."[6]" Who's the "he", here?
 * "He developed "a major drinking habit, " How about a tense shift to "He had"?
 * "say this had repercussions" Similarly, how about "has had"?
 * "williamshatner.com, which offers features" How about "offered"? It doesn't really matter what it offers now, just what it did offer at launch.
 * "Shatner said that another reason they decided to make the film was because Nimoy was visibly getting old, even though Shatner is older than Nimoy by four days, both born in 1931." "even though" doesn't work here- Shatner being older than Nimoy has nothing to do with the latter looking old. Also, "both having been born"?
 * "Stan Lee's Mutants, Monsters & Marvels" Is this notable? Don't be scared of redlinks! Same for the production company.
 * "Howard Stern played the sound on his radio show several times,[2] including when Shatner appeared on the show on November 13, 2001,[29] to promote his upcoming television series Iron Chef USA.[14]" You need to lose the second comma. If you'd rather not have a reference without punctuation, just move both footnotes to the end of the sentence. (Hidden comments can clarify what is referenced to what, if necessary.)
 * "Shatner's website made a similar claim, attributing the noise to a squeaky jib." Websites can't make claims. How about "A similar claim was made on Shatner's website"
 * "O'Brien riposted" Too prosaic, for me.
 * "people interested in hearing Shatner's flatulence, a sound which Brown said can be clearly heard" This implies that the sound heard is Shatner. This seems non-neutral.
 * I think the Jim Dawson stuff belongs in the "Alleged flatulence" section rather than the reception section

Seems like a really nicely researched article. I was surprised how many details of one detail there were, but it was all well sourced. Josh Milburn (talk) 21:16, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your review and comments, Josh! I have implemented all of them except one: I didn't remove the second comma in the Howard Stern sentence because I believe that this portion of the Manual of Style suggests that it should remain. Please let me know if you disagree; I may be interpreting the guideline incorrectly. Feel free to also tell me if there are any of your concerns that I haven't adequately addressed, or if you have any more that you would like to voice. Neelix (talk) 02:07, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I offered poor advice: I meant the third comma, the one after "2001". If that is still required in the date formatting, then perhaps the sentence could be reworked to have the date at the end? Josh Milburn (talk) 07:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I have reworked the sentence as you recommended, Josh. I hope this solution addresses your concern. Neelix (talk) 20:40, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I've been out of town for a couple of days. I'll try to find time to look into this soon. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:46, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Support. I've made some final minor tweaks and I'm now happy to support. A well put-together article. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:29, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Crisco 1492

 * they had with Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek, and with the several fellow cast members who disliked Shatner. - ambiguous; could mean Gene Roddenberry was the creator of Star Trek, or that they had trouble with Roddenberry, an unnamed creator, and cast members. Em or Endashes would probably work better.
 * I think the critical reception is too detailed in the lead.
 * No mention of TAS? They voiced the characters there, too, even though the TAS was retroactively considered non-canon.
 * accidentally drowned in a pool in 1999, losing a battle with alcoholism. - is the conflation really appropriate?
 * fascinating - good choice of words *raise eyebrow*
 * It was moving, Perry wrote, to see the two actors talk about their personal lives with such vulnerability—particularly when Nimoy discusses his experiences with alcoholism. - direct quote?
 * And Josh, no need to be ashamed of watching Voyager. At least it was better than Enterprise. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:20, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review, Crisco 1492! I implemented the dashes as you suggested, shortened the critical reception in the lead by removing the DVD Talk review sentence, added a mention of TAS, and reworded the Perry sentence so that it is clearer that the statement isn't a direct quotation. The sources conflate Kidd's death and alcoholism because Kidd drowned while intoxicated; please let me know if you feel that action is needed on this item. Neelix (talk) 23:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Support on prose. Those were the only issues I could find. Good work. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:11, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.