Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Red-tailed tropicbird/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 05:34, 17 March 2018.

Red-tailed tropicbird

 * Nominator(s): & Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This article we feel has buffed up nicely - and is as good as red-billed tropicbird, which recently attained Featured Status. Let us know if there are any outstanding issues. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Support Comments from Aa77zz
Taxonomy
 * "The red-tailed tropicbird was described by Dutch naturalist Pieter Boddaert in 1783,[3] from Mauritius." The article should include the binomial name at this point in the article.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:22, 27 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Mauritius needs a cite - or mention later. Note that the Isle de France = Mauritius.
 * the cite at the end of the following sentence covers it. I have added a commented note noting this (visible when editing the page) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:22, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

and Buffon's description is here:
 * It is misleading to state that Boddaert provided a description - he only coined a binomial name which he misspelled: Phaeton rubricauda. (not his only error). Boddaert's publication is a list of the plates published to accompany Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon's Histoire Naturelle des Oiseaux. I've attempted to provide the background for another Boddaert species in the brown booby article. For the red-tailed tropicbird the plate (number 979) is here:
 * nice work! And as imitation is the best form of flattery I havve shamelessly imported the format! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:40, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
 * nice work! And as imitation is the best form of flattery I havve shamelessly imported the format! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:40, 27 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The Gmelin link is to the wrong page in the wrong volume. Should be "volume=Volume 1 Part 2" pp.582-583
 * oops - fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:05, 27 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "that the original use of P. erubescens" But P. erubescens hasn't yet been mentioned.
 * looking for Banks Icones ined. whatever that is... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 27 February 2018 (UTC) ok found source of Banks...but now need a source saying he didn't describe it as such Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:48, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * "lacked a description and was hence a nomen nudum." but Rothschild doesn't state a reason in cited source.
 * ok worded badly, but as a nomen nudum is a name that lacks a description, is it worth putting in parentheses after it? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:39, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * " Lord Howe, Norfolk and Kermadec Islands" need links
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 27 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Gregory Mathews then applied the name P. rubicauda roseotinctus to Rothschild's P. rubicauda erubescens." Why did he do this?
 * ultimately I think it was his ego and a desire to mark his ornithological territory with as many new names and combinations as possible. The source gives no reason, but second-guessing would be that he was trying to trump Rothschild who was using a nomen nudum in erubescens so he kindly offered roseotincta as a new legitimate name. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:57, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Perhaps helpful for the reader at some point to add an additional citation to Check-list of Birds of the World that gives more of an overview:
 * Am puzzled by this one as it says P. r. erubescens Rothchild, 1900 could not be used for P. erubescens Gray, 1844 as it was a preoccupied name - but it was referring to the same taxon (not a different taxon) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:02, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Am puzzled by this one as it says P. r. erubescens Rothchild, 1900 could not be used for P. erubescens Gray, 1844 as it was a preoccupied name - but it was referring to the same taxon (not a different taxon) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:02, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * "Ornithologist Mike Tarburton reviewed the known subspecies" Perhaps a year would be helpful here: "In 1989 the ornithologist Mike Tarburton reviewed ..."
 * year added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

More later. - Aa77zz (talk) 09:10, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Lead
 * "the nest itself a scrape found on a cliff face" but the article also mentions coral atolls and cays
 * good point - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Feral cats and dogs prey on eggs" - feral dogs is a surprise - on tropical islands rats are often an important predator of ground nesting birds - the article mentions rats on Kure Atoll - perhaps "Rats and feral cats" in lead.
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Taxonomy
 * ssp list - link the islands
 * linked ones that were not sovereign states....reckon I should link them as well? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Description
 * Mention that the sexes are alike - perhaps also in lead
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


 * link remiges
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * link scapulars
 * having a problem here to find a destination, with List of terms used in bird topography being on place with no further information... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Distribution and habitat
 * Hawaii is mentioned twice
 * the first mention is in respect to range, the second to breeding. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * link Palau
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Breeding
 * "edge of the shrub" Shrub? Unclear. This muddles shade from shrubs and access.
 * tried rewording to clarify. does that help? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:36, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Feeding
 * flying fish or flyingfish?
 * good point - aligned them all to unspaced as all spp. are unspaced in their name Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Spell out MHNT in the figure caption.
 * good point - done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

- Aa77zz (talk) 13:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
 * How long do they live? Possibly worth citing the Australian Bird and bat banding database - maximum recovery time is 22 years 7.9 months.
 * aha, I have found [v this], which trumps that. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * What have you found? - Aa77zz (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * this - 32 years 8 months Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Lead
 * Mention range - tropical Pacific and Indian Oceans (cf red-billed that occurs in the Atlantic)
 * good point, added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "one of three closely related species of seabird of tropical Indian and Pacific Oceans." This is ambiguous - the range could apply to all 3 species instead of just the red-tailed. - Aa77zz (talk) 09:38, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * tweaked again Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Breeding
 * Perhaps mention that adults feed young by placing their bill down the chick's gullet and regurgitating. (apparently this contrasts with Pelecaniformes etc where a chick feeds by putting its own bill into the gullet of the adult). This is described by Howell & Bartholomew 1969, by Fleet 1974 and Marchant & Higgins p. 398.
 * Added. RileyBugz 私に叫ぼう私の編集 23:19, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Status
 * (Age at first breeding: this USFWS page has "Birds begin breeding after 4 years of age." but I cannot find a RS for this. - no action required)
 * "an estimated 32,000 mature individuals". The cite for this is the IUCN page which in turn cites the 1992 HBW article (which doesn't give a total). This number is clearly an underestimate. The 2018 HBW alive article has been updated cf the book: there are more than 80,000 individuals in the eastern Pacific according to: . There are an estimate 9000 pairs breeding on Europa (here - I cannot access ref 25 Le Corre & Jouventin 1997). Possibly better to omit the grand total but quote some of the other numbers.
 * added these, plus hawaii, and note on estimate of eastern pacific. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

- Aa77zz (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The article makes no mention of when or how the birds moult. Moult mentioned in Marchant & Higgins p. 943 (and Fleet 1974). "Streamers replaced constantly; usually one streamer fully grown while other being replaced."
 * moult info added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I've supported above. Good work, well done. Two points (that don't affect my support) Nothing on longevity? The archived BHL links aren't needed - they don't appear to work correctly and add clutter. - Aa77zz (talk) 10:41, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Source review by Lingzhi

 * Note that just because a warning is displayed doesn't mean there's really any problem.. but I'm listing errors in case there's something we can improve:
 * Boddaert, Pieter (1783); Latham, John (1785); Gmelin, Johann Friedrich (1788); Latham, John (1824); Rothschild, Walter (1900);  Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. OCLC;
 * I've never added identifiers - and they are linked by url.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:56, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Garnett, Stephen T.; Crowley, Gabriel M. "Red-tailed Tropicbird". Inconsistent use of Publisher Location (6 with; 1 without); Missing Year/Date; Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
 * added publisher and location Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:56, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim

 * one of three closely related species of seabird of tropical Indian and Pacific Oceans.—I'd prefer "seabird species" to "species of seabird", but more to the point, as written it's incorrect. Tropicbirds breed in the Atlantic and Caribbean too. If you meant to describe the range of red-tailed only, make it clearer.
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:40, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * two times— ="twice"
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * on sand on a beach— ="on sandy beaches"
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * flyingfish—link to flying fish in lead at least
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * described this black-billed specimen as the New Holland tropicbird,[10] also described as Phaethon novae-hollandiae—repeat of "described"
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * he named P. rubicauda erubescens and was larger overall—strange conjunction of completely different ideas
 * tweaked - not sure what happened there Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:40, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The Māori called it amokura, tawake, ko’ae or ’ula,[14] while the Native Hawaiians call it koa'e’ula.[15] —why not the more widespread French phaéton à brins rouges? we don't normally give non-English names unless they illustrate a point, such a s onomatopoeia name
 * I am keen to promote indigenous culture and folklore... there is a bit of maori material which I forgot to include but will only make a very stubby culture section. Just doing a last-minute skim have added a culture section. Could put names there I suppose... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:42, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * In "Distribution and habitat" you seem to switch randomly between "they" and "it"
 * singularised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:56, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Coloration/behaviour—AE or BE?
 * now Britishised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Additionally, the tropicbird often chooses shrubs with fewer stems, also—You don't need "additionally" and "also"
 * trimmed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:54, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * lays a clutch of one egg—you don't need "a clutch of"
 * trimmed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:54, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Predators recorded in Western Australia include large raptors such as the white-bellied sea eagle (Haliaeetus leucogaster) and eastern osprey (Pandion cristatus), —Does the source indicate how often ospreys attach this bird? It seems extraordinary behaviour for an almost entirely piscivorous species to attack a large seabird.
 * Yellow crazy ant—link
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:35, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Jimfbleak - talk to me?  11:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * If the osprey issue can be clarified, that would be good, but happy to support now anyway Jimfbleak - talk to me?  14:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Marchant and Higgins has no further info and I can't get to the other listed source. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * thx Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * Probably have seen them, but couldn't tell them by sight. Some comments. I'll complete soon.
 * "clinal change" While it is clear from context what is meant, I suggest a link to an appropriate article or definition.
 * linked to Cline (biology) now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "a scrape" Ditto.
 * linked to Bird_nest now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "mainly flyingfish," is the lack of a space intended?
 * the individual flyingfish species lack a space, so I removed it from the common term for consistency (during this FAC, see above) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Sir Joseph Banks is linked twice in the same paragraph, though they differ on whether the Sir is included in the link. If he is to be described as a British naturalist, it should probably be on first usage.
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "The Māori called it amokura, tawake, ko’ae or ’ula,[14] while the Native Hawaiians call it koa'e’ula.[15]" Not sure why Maori is in past tense and Native Hawaiian in present, when there are more living Maoris than Native Hawaiians and probably more speak the Maori language.
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "with one growing while the other is shed" This says to me that there are times when there are no full streamers, that while one is still growing the other is discarded. Is that accurate?
 * source doesn't really specify...I'm thinking no Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "newborn" Newly hatched?
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "In Australian waters it could be confused with the silver gull (Chroicocephalus novaehollandiae) or various tern species, though is larger and heavier-set, with a wedge-shaped tail." I might lose the "is", or else keep it and add an "it" before "is".
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * " Birds give a low growling call as a defence call, and young chatter repetitively as a begging call—made whenever parents are nearby.[22]" I might add a "the" before "young".
 * definite article added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * More soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:03, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "the Christmas Islands" At least as far as the Indian Ocean is concerned, there is only one, Christmas Island.
 * the stray definite article was a mistake. But "Islands" is plural as it is for Europa and Aldraba as well in same sentence Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd lower case "islands" then.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "Nosy Ve" Nosy Be? I'm not sure it's tiny, btw, given that our article says the name means "big island" :) . Probably more of the locations in this paragraph should have links.
 * these are two different islands with similar names. And it is small. Shall I redlink it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, who knew? I don't think redlinks overly necessary.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "It is an occasional visitor to Palau, with breeding recorded from the Southwest Islands,[30] and were first recorded from Guam in 1992.[31]" probably "were" should be "was" as you are steadfast in maintaining the singular.
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "California and Vancouver.[32]" The source says "Vancouver Island". You have linked to the city of Vancouver, which is not on Vancouver Island. Blame Canada for their illogic.
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "They disperse" since you are now using the plural, I would say "The birds disperse" or similar, rather than
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "The red-tailed tropicbird is a strong flyer, however it walks on land with difficulty with a shuffling gait.[7]" the double "with" is unpleasing, I would change the second "with" to "using".
 * tweaked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That's about it.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:51, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support all looks good now.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 05:34, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.