Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Formula One fatal accidents/archive2
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Giants2008 17:11, 4 September 2012 [1].
List of Formula One fatal accidents[edit]
List of Formula One fatal accidents (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Featured list candidates/List of Formula One fatal accidents/archive1
- Featured list candidates/List of Formula One fatal accidents/archive2
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I am nominating this for featured list because after some extensive work over the past day and a bit the list now meets the criteria. I've revamped the references which seemed to be the main issue regarding the lists demotion. Thanks in advance for taking the time to review the list. NapHit (talk) 14:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "Formula One, abbreviated to F1" —> "Formula One, abbreviated as F1" Thine Antique Pen 15:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TBrandley (talk) 22:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
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- Ayrton Senna, the last man to die at the wheel of a Formula One car.
- Untrue. Firstly, he technically died whilst out of the car receiving medical attention, but more importantly, two drivers have died in F1 cars since 1994, in non-Championship events. The sentence above the table List of people who died during a FIA World Championship race weekend, or elsewhere while driving a Formula One car means that they should be included. They both used to be on this list but were removed for some reason. Either they should be re-added or the wording changed to exclude deaths outside World Championship events. This would involve the removal of 14 drivers currently on the list. The two drivers were John Dawson-Damer, killed in a Lotus during a hillclimb at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2000, and Fritz Glatz, killed driving a Footwork FA17 in a EuroBoss race in the Czech Republic in 2002. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I see those two have been re-added - there may be some objections to that, as there were previously. The discussion is still on the talk page. My point is that either they should be included or the criteria should be worded to explain clearly who is included and who is excluded. I don't mind either way, so long as the list matches the criteria. Some people wanted the two later deaths excluded as the cars involved did not conform to the F1 regulations as they were written at the time of the accidents. But that would also exclude the Indy cars of the 1950s (which never conformed to any F1 regulations) and any modified cars used in testing. It's a complicated subject. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:42, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've added them back as you've noticed. Yes I read the discussion page, there seemed to be a preference for what having the list in its current guise. I think the way it is now the best way to do it, I think its clarified in the text, the list refers to people driving an F1 car regardless of where it is etc. I'll try and make it clearer. It certainly is a complicated issue, but I think this is the right way to go. NapHit (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with you. Hopefully if someone objects, we can figure out an easy way to keep everyone happy. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've added them back as you've noticed. Yes I read the discussion page, there seemed to be a preference for what having the list in its current guise. I think the way it is now the best way to do it, I think its clarified in the text, the list refers to people driving an F1 car regardless of where it is etc. I'll try and make it clearer. It certainly is a complicated issue, but I think this is the right way to go. NapHit (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I see those two have been re-added - there may be some objections to that, as there were previously. The discussion is still on the talk page. My point is that either they should be included or the criteria should be worded to explain clearly who is included and who is excluded. I don't mind either way, so long as the list matches the criteria. Some people wanted the two later deaths excluded as the cars involved did not conform to the F1 regulations as they were written at the time of the accidents. But that would also exclude the Indy cars of the 1950s (which never conformed to any F1 regulations) and any modified cars used in testing. It's a complicated subject. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:42, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Great work. Sure is one of Wikipedia's best lists. TBrandley 01:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Look nice and ready to me! --Yerevanci (talk) 22:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support— Good work! Zia Khan 05:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Is excellent. I believe it is ready. TollHRT52 (talk) 13:55, 26 August 2012 (AEST)
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 13:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 11:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply] |
- Oppose for now: needs a bit more copyediting:
- "It was not until the 1960s these were first introduced. Helmets and overalls became mandatory and the FIA assumed responsibility for safety at the circuits.[2] Steps were taken to improve the safety of the Formula One car in the 1970s. The cockpit opening was enlarged allowing the driver to escape quicker in the event of an accident and outside mirrors became mandatory.[" I think these four sentences need to be merged into two, to clearly explain that #2 refers to the 60s, and #4 to the 70s.
- "49 drivers have died..."
- "This list includes drivers who have during a FIA World Championship race weekend, and those who have died while driving a Formula One car outside of the World Championship. " this is a bit confusing. you mean the list includes BOTH drivers who died during the weekend and those who died outside of them but driving a F1 car?
- "Track marshals and other race attendees, who have died as a result of these accidents are not included in the list. " is there an estimate on how many people died during accidents but were not the drivers?
- "(there have been two fatalities outside of World Championship Grands Prix) " perhaps change this into a footnote and clearly explain who are the two
- mention that two drivers died in the 1960 Belgian Grand Prix and 1994 San Marino Grand Prix.
- mention that '58 is the year with most fatalities (4)
- By circuit needs to include also the number of times the circuit has been used. Fatalities by constructor needs to have columns with how many seasons the constructors were active
- I think there should be an age column also
Nergaal (talk) 00:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the comments Nergaal, I've addressed them all. NapHit (talk) 13:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- You adressed some of them, but mostly discarded them. Nergaal (talk) 23:37, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I think discarded is a bit harsh, whether I disagreed with them or not, I addressed them one way or the other. I just don't think there is a need to flood tables and the lead with loads of information. Wikipedia is not a statistics site adding more information to the lead is unnecessary as it adequately summarises the table. Listing more would not make the prose flow. With the tables, I'm not sure an age column is necessary, the reader can click the person's article to find out, it would be information overload, likewise with the other suggestions for the other tables. I know you're comments were well-intentioned I just don't think it would be practical or necessary to include the suggestions I've highlighted. NapHit (talk) 23:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- You adressed some of them, but mostly discarded them. Nergaal (talk) 23:37, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Bloom6132 (talk) 14:15, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments –
—Bloom6132 (talk) 09:23, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Comments – Don't think I've ever had a list I nominated for delisting come back to FLC before. Interesting occurance, and the sourcing certainly looks much better than it did when the list was at FLRC.
- Comma after "Track marshals and other race attendees" probably shouldn't be there.
- The number starting the sentence "49 drivers have died..." would be better off spelled out. I've never thought that numbers starting sentences are a good thing, and I think that is why Nergaal commented on it. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:23, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
quickie something I missed earlier, the 2002 EuroBOSS Series season (although red) would be a more accurate link than just EuroBOSS Series wouldn't it? Even if you had to create a stub which remarked upon the fact that a driver was killed in an F1 car during the season? The Rambling Man (talk) 14:31, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I don't agree with many of Nergaal's points in the opposition. I'm very happy indeed with the standard of this list, definitely FL quality. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.