Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Israel international footballers/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 20:08, 25 July 2012.

List of Israel international footballers

 * Nominator(s): HonorTheKing (talk), Cliftonian (talk), 11:22, 31 May 2012 (UTC)''

We are nominating this for featured list because we believe the list meets the criteria. – HonorTheKing (talk) 11:22, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments from  Harrias  talk
 * Consider linking association football in the first sentence.
 * Okay —Cliftonian (talk) 14:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't see anything in Ref #13 that says either that Walid Badir is an Israeli Arab, or that he is the most-capped Israeli Arab.
 * I've added reference to Sports Illustrated here. —Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 14:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Just a question; why choose to use the IFA statistics rather than FIFAs? As an Englishman, I have no love for FIFA, but theirs would seem to me to be the more official numbers?
 * Some of the games are considered unofficial by FIFA, generally because the opposition fields a weakened team (see the RSSSF ref for individual details), but in these cases the Israeli FA considers the caps official since its own team was at full strength, even if the opponent wasn't. I'd say using different numbers to the ones maintained by the Israeli FA could lead to confusion should we ever (hypothetically) get the situation where the Israelis are claiming to have a new record cap-holder or goalscorer, but FIFA are disagreeing. I think using the IFA's numbers is acceptable so long as we make clear we are doing so, which we are. Perhaps a footnote might be useful here. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 14:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There don't appear to be any references supporting the "Position" column, which may lead to the thought that it is original research.
 * I can see how this could be an issue, but one can easily click on the player's name to check his position if it is in doubt. As always, though, I'm happy to defer to consensus on this. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 14:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Overall, the list looks very good and well maintained; nice work!  Harrias  <sup style="color:#009900;">talk 13:45, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 14:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 17:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * סבבה <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 17:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * בבקשה, I hope that is correct :) <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 18:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly right :) <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 18:08, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments -
 * It should say in the lead that 97 players are in the list.
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 17:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it necessary to say who is the most capped Arab-Israeli player. Obviously Israel, along with Northern Ireland, has a difficult political situtaion but I personally wouldn't expect it to say on Northern Ireland's list who the most capped Catholic player was.
 * I think it is worth saying because of the relatively small number of Arab players who have historically played in the Israeli team (particularly compared to the huge number of Catholics who have played for NI over the years). It is only in the last couple of decades that there have been any Arabs in the Israeli team at all, and even then it was somewhat controversial for some to have them there. I think the identity of the most prominent Israeli-Arab international is likely to be a subject of interest to many readers, and I certainly don't think it can hurt to include it. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 17:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Is IFA the correct abbreviation for the Israel FA. I think that's Northern Ireland's FIFA abbreviation although if you are just abbreviating it for the purposes of the article then it doesn't really matter. Adam4267 (talk) 13:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, in English the Israeli FA uses "IFA", see here. Thanks for the comments. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 17:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries, excellent list and the name Mordechai Spiegler will amuse me for the rest of the night. Adam4267 (talk) 19:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the comments and the kind words, Adam; I'm not sure exactly what's funny about Spiegler's name, but I'm glad it's amusing you <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 20:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

_ Support Adam4267 (talk) 22:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Comments – HonorTheKing (talk) 19:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Before commenting on the list itself, I'm wondering whether 20 caps is the ideal limit. The standard for players lists nowadays is to have two or three lists that together encompass all the players to have appeared for that team. For example, List of Birmingham City F.C. players draws the limit at 100 apps, then there's List of Birmingham City F.C. players (25–99 appearances) and List of Birmingham City F.C. players (fewer than 25 appearances). Obviously those aren't national team player lists, but I think the scope for inclusion is something worth revising if spin-off lists were to be considered. There's 450+ Israel internationals and this list presently contains approximately 100, so if other lists were made I think the 20 cap limit would need to be lowered to make the number between the two or three lists more equal. Not saying I'm expecting either of you to create another list or two to list all Israel internationals, or that that would be necessary for me in supporting this list's nomination, but I thought I'd bring this up as something to consider for the long-term.
 * If other lists are made in the long run I think this is along the right lines, but for now at least we're not doing that. Thanks for this. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I just want to add that it list those with at least 20 due to it following the same format as the featured list and same kind of article List of France international footballers.


 * Do you know the date of the last match played? I think it'd be better if "Statistics are correct as of 31 May 2012" could be rephrased "Statistics are correct as of the match played on [date of last match]".
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * After this sentence the reference that covers appearances ("National Team Appearances list") is included, so shouldn't the ref for goals ("National Team Goalscorers list") be included too?
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about "Still active for the national team"; as the footnote explains, this refers to players who are still eligible to play, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're still active in the national squad. I think "Still eligible for the national team" or some such, along with a rephrased foonote, would be better.
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * "Israel national team football players" - should be "Israel national team footballers", for consistency.
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * "National team career" represents the years of players' first and last caps. Perhaps this should be noted somwhere above the table for clarity, as some readers might not be aware that this is the case?
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * When players have the same numbers of caps and goals, in what order are they then listed? This needs mentioning in the text above the table.
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

– HonorTheKing (talk) 19:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:WIAFL criterion 5a states that only a "minimal proportion of items are redlinked". At the moment 17 of the 97 wikilinks in the list are redlinks. I don't know if there's a rule of thumb regarding what proportion is recommended in practice, but that figure seems a little steep to me.
 * Hopefully Honor can work on this a little, I don't have the sources for this and my Hebrew is kind of spurious to boot. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I will try and make some of those articles with books and online refs I would be able to locate.
 * Thanks Honor. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 21:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Due to the number of references I'd recommend splitting the "References" column in two.
 * It was split by "colwidth" before, but I've made it a bit thinner, hope this is better now <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The "Israel National Team – List of Official Games" ref is missing author and date info.
 * Okay. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 21:13, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments Matty, I hope I've resolved the issues raised. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 19:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support - improved and done with good grace. Well worked.  The Rambling Man (talk) 16:58, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Rambling Man. <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 17:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Support cannot find any issues with the list—great work! <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  09:08, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Arsenikk! <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 09:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.