Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Queens Park Rangers F.C. players/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 20:08, 25 July 2012.

List of Queens Park Rangers F.C. players

 * Nominator(s): Miyagawa   (talk)  14:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I think it's now comparable to the FLs on the same subject. This one has been a long time coming - I've been gradually adding the players from Macey's Queens Park Rangers: The Complete Record over a series of months whilst working on other articles. As that book contains records up until 2009, I used the Soccerbase website to over the three seasons since as it had been used in previous player list FLs. The unusual thing to note in this is that Macey includes wartime matches in his tally, and therefore I've included them here (and have included a note on the article to say so). Miyagawa  (talk)  14:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support Arsenikk (talk)  18:57, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support NapHit (talk) 09:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments -
 * Positions are listed according to the tactical formations that were employed at the time. Thus the change in the names of defensive and midfield reflects the tactical evolution that occurred from the 1960s onwards. Defense instead of defensive. Or defenders and midfielders.
 * Fixed as suggested. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you should wikilink players' names in the pictures. Just so if someone wants to read about that players they don't have to go through the list to find them.
 * Done. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * This is a question. Should the name of the article not be List of Queens Park Rangers F.C. players (100+ apearances) or asomething like that. I skipped the hatnote the first time I looked at it and didn't realise the that this list was only 100+ apps. The name of the actual list in the article is List of Queens Park Rangers F.C. players with at least 100 appearances so I think that should be reflected in the article title.
 * I see where you're coming from, but it does seem to be pretty standard naming convention that the plain list articles (with no appearance numbers in the article title) are 100+ appearance articles. But I'm more than happy to change the article title if that's the consensus. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally would prefer specification in the article title. I don't think the average reader would realise it was 100+. Still if that's the common usage (which it seems to be) then it shouldn't hold this article back from FL. Adam4267 (talk) 22:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)


 * As the team's historian lists the statistics from wartime matches. Who is the team's historian.
 * Gordon Macey - I've added that to the text. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There's only 3 categories. I don't know if that's the correct amount or not but I thought I'd point it out.
 * I've checked the other similar FLs and there doesn't seem to be any missed - in fact a couple of the others only have two. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It'd be nice to have a picture in the lead. Obviously you said above it was hard to find one of any specific player but maybe there could be something else that could be added.
 * It suddenly occurred to me that Phil Parkes would be unique enough as he's QPR's record appearing goalkeeper - so I've moved his image up to the lead. If I come across anything better later, I'll move him back and put the new image in the lead. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I've never contributed to a FAC on player lists before. I know its common practice to list players' positions depending on which time period they played. But I don't understand it. A half-back is a midfielder and a full-back is a defender Also it didn't all just change over night, for example Mark Lazarus is the first player to come after 1960 that is affected. Firstly he was a right winger so would be the same in pre and post 60s. But he played from 60-67 and is listed as MF. Whereas his teammate Mike Keen (whose page says he's a midfielder) who played until from 59-69 is a half-back. Also an Inside-forward would be obsolete in the mosern game yet is not distinguished in the lists. I don't think this system makes sense at all. I think you have to either distinguish all positions (W, IF, WH/CM, CB,). Or just have D, M and F. Obviously this is just a personal view of the system as a whole nd not in any way a criticism of this list specifically. Thanks Adam4267 (talk) 12:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I totally see your point, if the other reviewers are happy with this, then I'm more than happy to go through and standardise the positions to their modern equivalents and change the footnote to reflect this. Miyagawa  (talk)  20:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also Samuel Abel is the only listed Utility player. But his page says he's a forward. Adam4267 (talk) 21:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It also says he played as a forward and as a right back for QPR, so I put him down as a utility player. Miyagawa   (talk)  21:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Just to note I found an image of one of the red linked players, Jimmy Birch, while looking for something completely different. Fortunately someone had scanned in an entire page of a newspaper from 1920, and so I was able to uploaded it to commons with the full source information. Miyagawa  (talk)  18:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And a further note to say that I thought I'd de-red link him and create his article, so googled him... and found he already had an article under James Birch. So I've updated the table appropriately. Miyagawa   (talk)  18:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

- Support (hope this is the right way to do it) Adam4267 (talk) 22:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Comments
 * Nothing to do with this list itself, but I think it's worth mentioning that the scope is there for spin-off lists, in the mould of List of Liverpool F.C. players, List of Liverpool F.C. players (25–99 appearances) and List of Liverpool F.C. players (fewer than 25 appearances). Just thought I'd bring that up in case you ever find yourself with gratuitous amounts of time on your hands.
 * That's the plan one day... although considering it took several months of data input to get this one together, it probably won't be anytime soon! I think the managers list will probably be next as it's pretty much already there list-wise and just needs some touch ups. Then I'll probably come back to the players lists, unless the seasons one distracts me again by having the relevent local newspapers going on line or something! Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I think the key would be better off under a "Key" header, then bringing the "Players" header just above the table.
 * Changed as suggested, if you don't like it I can always revert it anyway. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * "Charity/Community Shield" - "FA Charity/Community Shield" is correct.
 * Changed as per suggestion. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about the inclusion of wartime statistics; I've had a glance at the present player FL lists for English clubs and all of them exclude these on the basis that they're unofficial or that they're counted as friendlies. Do you not see these either of these as being the case for this list?
 * I thought about this quite a bit when I pulled the list together. In the source the players lists at the back automatically includes the wartime league matches and doesn't differentiate between non-wartime and wartime. I had thought that I could go through the season by season stats and remove the wartime matches (which was my intention at the start) but as I worked through the list I came to think that it didn't feel right to be deliberately removing information from the list. I checked the couple of similar FLs that have online sources and it seems that the source themselves doesn't list the wartime matches, and so the figures just weren't available. Of course my personal opinion is that QPR includes them in the records as they won a wartime league during the Second World War... Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a shame Macey doesn't differentiate between wartime and non-wartime stats in the players lists; my York Complete Record volumes have kept the wartime stats completely separate so this was never a problem for me. Since you feel it'd be too much bother removing the wartime apps it won't preclude my support for this nom. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I think "Statistics correct as of end of 2011–2012 season" would be better off written as a full sentence, and the season range should be 2011–12 per WP:YEAR. So I'd recommend "Statistics are correct as of the end of the 2011–12 season".
 * Changed as per suggestion. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Should have mentioned a full stop is needed too. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. :) Miyagawa   (talk)  13:29, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Kevin Gallen's name needs wikilinking in the image caption.
 * Fixed. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * 41 redlinks from 163 seems an awful lot to me. Per WP:WIAFL criterion 5a, there should only be "a minimal proportion" of redlinks so I think this should be brought done quite substantially.
 * I'll give this some work over the weekend and try to reduce the number. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The Walter Barrie ref doesn't need writing out in full.
 * I'm not sure what you mean, Walter Barrie uses citation #4 which is also used by a number of other players.
 * On edit mode it's written out as when it could just be . Mattythewhite (talk) 21:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah gotcha, fixed that as noted. Miyagawa   (talk)  21:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * General refs tend to be positioned above Specific refs.
 * The two are switched around now. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Refs 1 and 3 are the same; one needs removing.
 * Fixed. Miyagawa   (talk)  19:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 19:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments. A few additional comments.
 * Going by List of Queens Park Rangers F.C. seasons there are a number of competitions QPR took part in that are not included in the list (according to the key). These are the West London Observer Cup, London Senior Cup, West London Challenge Cup, FA Amateur Cup, Middlesex Challenge Cup, SP Charity Cup, London Challenge Cup, Football League Third Division South Cup, Football League War Cup, League Cup South, Southern Floodlight Cup, Full Members Cup, Mercantile Credit Centenary Trophy and Football League Trophy. Shouldn't apps in these be included in addition to the existing competitions?
 * They were, but I hadn't included them in the key - so I've added the competitions that were included after QPR went professional in 1899.


 * Is Macey the best ref for players who left the club after the book's publishing date of 2009, e.g. Gareth Ainsworth and Lee Cook?
 * I'd missed the Soccerbase references for both of those players, so added them and did a double check to make sure I hadn't missed anyone else.


 * And according to Soccerbase Cook last appeared for QPR in 2011, not 2012.
 * Fixed as noted.


 * Dexter Blackstock is now an Antigua and Barbuda international so his flag needs updating. Also, Stuart Leary was an England under-23 international.
 * Fixed as noted, and updated the numbers in the lead.


 * A few names are missing diacritics, e.g. Alejandro Faurlin -> Alejandro Faurlín and Akos Buzsaky -> Ákos Buzsáky.
 * Fixed, and double checked I hadn't missed anyone else.


 * Martin Rowlands left earlier this year so his years need updating.
 * Updated as noted.

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 00:27, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. Miyagawa   (talk)  20:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * support spot checks checks out okay, prose is not great but decent. the gallery of poor pictures perhaps unneeded. on par with other FL of the kind. Sandman888 (talk) 22:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.