Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 21:55:40 17 November 2019 (UTC).

List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri

 * Nominator(s): Dey subrata (talk) 23:07, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because, first it follows all the Featured List criteria: Secondly, the article has been constructed taking inspiration from FL articles like List of international goals scored by Lionel Messi and List of international goals scored by Cristiano Ronaldo and shows almost identical in nature and thus can be included in Featured list. Dey subrata (talk) 23:07, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Written as prose with a good lead.
 * The article is comprehensive with all necessary informations and sources.
 * Have a organised structure with all tables, sections and heading required to display the the information.
 * Complies with WP:MOS.
 * The article is stable, no edit wars can be seen in recent times and also as all information are well tabled and with citations, there is very little scope of edit wars.

Despite the extremely quick support above, I found a lot of issues. Most of them are minor, but nonetheless they need fixing............
 * Support: Satisfies a no. of requirements.--Anbans 585 (talk) 00:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Comments


 * I will do a full check later, but is there a particular reason why you have left in the goals for India's under-20 team? As I mentioned above, no other equivalent list includes goals for under-age teams..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:55, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The only reason I have kept it because, AIFF considered them as international goals against his tally, though FIFA don't recognise it in "senior" international goals (but are FIFA recognised goals though are under age group goals ofcorse) but FIFA respect the federation tally, for which you can see in news when AIFF announced Sunil Chhetri as all time highest scorer after scoring 39 goals not 31 goals because I M Vijayan also scored some U20 goals which were considered as international goals by AIFF (not FIFA), for this I often see new editors come and put these goals in the list without knowing the official data which often creates chaos (also that goal against Qatar), so better I have kept it such so that if any new editor comes, he/she may not do such mistakes. I think its better for the article to follow the last but a important criteria "to be a stable article", without this I think it will often be unstable. Dey subrata (talk) 15:06, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, I am not 100% sure about that but I will leave it here to see what other editors think.
 * Here check AIFF is declaring him as the second highest goalscorer with 39 goals, I M Vijayan 38 goals (including u20 goals) by AIFF where as he has 29 goals only (FIFA recognised here). Though in reality by FIFA A international match stats Chhetri become highest goalscorer when he scored his 30th goal. Thats why so that no confusion may occur among readers and editors as many such articles you can find online. Here is one such example. My intention is to keep it stable, if we remove this information from the page, some one in future must be there will get confused and will do edits. Trust me very few people here have Indian players international knowledge, and no one is permamnent here to resolve these issues, if such issue arise i am afraid it will not be resolved. One thing that can be done is that, that line from the lead can be removed and just the goals in the table later be kept as mentioned seperately after the main list or if you suggest any thing else. Dey subrata (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * Good work including sources for the goals. Important for verifiability.
 * "Appearances and Goals by competition" might need some rework, it seems unnecessarily detailed, for example Nehru Cup, King's Cup are not official tournaments, it's ok to keep them in individual goals, but not for aggregates. Appearance and goals in that should be clubbed under friendlies. SAFF Championship can be retained I suppose. Coderzombie (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing the article, ofcorse credit goes to you a lot as you have added lot of the goals and statistics in the first place. Anyway coMing to your concern, Nehru Cup and Kings' Cup are mentioned as because these are actually FIFA certified tournament (though Nehru cup is dissolved now), very few tournaments are FIFA certified and AFC certified another example is Pestabola Merdeka, the points counted on importances for FIFA certified tournament are little higher than normal friendlies. So its been added. You can see that I have not included intercontinental cup or anyother cup he played. Thank you. Dey subrata (talk) 14:12, 18 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * The second sentence has two linked uses of Indian national football team.
 * "and country's most-capped player" > the country's...
 * The second image is a fragment so doesn't require a full stop.
 * "in the King's Cup. and the rest have come in the AFC Challenge Cup", full stop half way but the sentence carries on.
 * Second paragraph could do with a source for the final part.
 * "but are official goals", if they're not counted by FIFA then they aren't considered official. I'm assuming they're counted by the All India Football Federation? If so, I'd add that to the sentence.
 * "FIFA allows a maximum of three substitutions by each team", that's only in competitive fixtures which, according to the table, this wasn't. The ref you're using is for the 2017 Confederations Cup which is a competitive tournament. It's usually seven for friendly matches which would make sense as the RSSSF ref states India made 10 substitutes.
 * I'd probably agree with ChrisTheDude's comments about removing the under-20 goals. If they're not recognised by FIFA, then it's probably placing undue importance on them in comparison to senior international fixtures.
 * Refs 4, 11, 12, 14, 21, 26, 27, 31, 32, 48 and 52 need an author.
 * Ref 13 uses a different date format than other refs, stick to one style for consistency.
 * Ref 22 needs a publishing date as a parameter, rather than included in the title.
 * Refs 23, 32, 52, 54, 55, 56 and 59 need a publishing date.
 * Avoid shouting in ref titles, as in ref 57, per WP:ALLCAPS.
 * Basically, any AIFF refs also need a publishing date which is listed at the bottom of the article.
 * Ref 58 is Giovanni Savarese's profile, not a match report as stated.

I've done a run through and picked out some points above. Kosack (talk) 07:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking time to review it. All your concern are resolved. Except one thing I want to add, those u-20 goals are kept, as I have mentioned before, because 90 percent readers and editors who visit the article are Indians and because of the fact that AIFF consider those goals as official goals, there is very high chance and we have seen before too editors doing mistakes, mostly new editors, they try to change the goal list and edit to include those goals without having any knowledge that those goals are u23 or u20 goals. I just want the article to be stable, I don't want that when the article gets FA status, someone coming here adding those goals in the goal list. So, lets take a final call, you know my concerns now, my decision is "Aye", let it be here for stability of the article, now you four give your final call.. Do you want to keep it or not?,  Dey subrata (talk) 15:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Under-20 goals should definitely not be included. -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:28, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * U-20 goals should not be included. Coderzombie (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * BTW, one other thing I noticed - why are the unofficial games/under-20 games/hat-tricks tables centred on the screen whereas the big one is not? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Check now. Dey subrata (talk) 15:38, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I would say they should all be left-aligned -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:44, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Dey subrata (talk) 16:37, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * and Ok, I removed the u-20 goals from the lead and also from the list but added a footnote instead. I think that will go good with all. Dey subrata (talk) 18:00, 23 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I just noticed one more thing (can't believe I did not spot this before): out of his 72 goals, 39 came in friendly matches, 17 in the SAFF Championships, 14 in the Nehru Cup, 13 in the World Cup qualifiers, 9 in the Asian Cup qualifiers, 5 in the AFC Asian Cup, 1 in the King's Cup and the rest have come in the AFC Challenge Cup and its qualifiers - 39+17+14+13+9+5+1=98 (and that's without including "the rest" which came in the AFC Challenge Cup), so at least one of those numbers must be very wrong......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:54, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * its written "in the AFC Challenge Cup and its qualifiers-"8 and 6" which is 14....so everything was correct brother. you misread the sentence. Dey subrata (talk) 12:20, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The sentence cannot be correct, because it states that he has scored 72 goals in total, and then it lists figures for each competition and they add up to 98. The numbers cannot possibly be right -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:22, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * How its clearly wriiten the rest came in AFC Challenge cup and its qualifiers, 98 and the rest whatever goals...its from afc challenge n its qualifier... What's wrong in it. Dey subrata (talk) 12:26, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Forget the bit about the AFC Challenge Cup specifically. What is wrong is that you say he has scored a total of 72 goals, but the numbers for each competition add up to 98, as I have stated twice above.  As an example, you say he has scored 39 goals in friendlies, but I checked the table and there are only 16 listed, a massive difference.  Similarly, the lead says he has scored 14 goals in the Nehru Cup, but there are only 9 in the table.  So all the numbers in that sentence are wrong.  Do you understand the issue? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry I was talking about appearances. My mistake. Dey subrata (talk) 12:31, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, but this isn't a list of appearances, it's a list of goals, so you need to change those numbers to the number of goals he scored in each competition -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:33, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Dey subrata (talk) 12:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Have you included his goals in the Intercontinental Cup in the total for friendlies? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. included the intercontinental in the friendlies. Dey subrata (talk) 16:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * If they are not listed as friendlies in the table, then for consistency I would not lump them in with the friendlies in the lead -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:57, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. listed as Friendly with name of the cup in bracket. Dey subrata (talk) 19:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Support' - thanks for bearing with me :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No thanks to you, for taking your valuable time for it. And its a learning process for me. I will be nominating few other list too, hope and like to work with you in those articles too. Dey subrata (talk) 21:07, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * A further point, the table should be using scoperows, per WP:DTT. Kosack (talk) 17:56, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done Dey subrata (talk) 19:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I've taken another run through and picked out a few more:


 * "The captain of the India national football team, he is the all-time top goalscorer of India and the country's most-capped player", I would suggest merging the goalscorer and capped parts together to avoid a double mention of India. Something like "The captain of the India national football team, he is the country's most-capped player and all-time top goalscorer".
 * The link for I.M.Vijayan is redirecting back on itself.
 * "With his 72 International goals", no need to capitalise international and I'd add a comma after goals.
 * Pakistan is already linked in the first paragraph so there's no need to repeat the link in the third.
 * "Chhetri's first international tournament for India was the 2007 Nehru Cup where he scored two goals against Cambodia in a 6–0 win", it seems odd to only mention one of the three fixtures he scored in during the tournament especially as he was Indian's top scorer and they won the tournament.
 * "7 in the World Cup qualifiers, 4 in the Asian Cup qualifiers", I don't think we need the before these two tournaments. It sounds odd when it's referring to multiple qualifying campaigns rather than a single one.
 * Use the same name for the Asian Cup rather than having "Asian Cup" followed by "AFC Asian Cup" later on.
 * Probably not worth having the ref column as sortable given that it doesn't sort refs.
 * The espn.in refs (46 & 47) have author and publishing dates available. Kosack (talk) 10:26, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * All the above done, but I don't understand the I M Vijayan thing, redirecting back on itself?? I don't get it. Dey subrata (talk) 14:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The link is piped to his full name but the actual article uses his initials. So you're forcing a redirect to the page for no reason. Kosack (talk) 15:51, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Dey subrata (talk) 17:53, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The two espn.in refs (now 47 & 48) have not been amended. Kosack (talk) 18:37, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * What to do in it, please let me know, wat to amend..or can you please do it. Dey subrata (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Support - The refs just had an available author and publishing date is all, I've added them in now. Anyway, that's it from me, happy to support this nomination now. Nice work. Kosack (talk) 17:41, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Support Comments from Aoba47
These are the only two things that I can see. It seems that this list has already received an extensive review from other editors at this point. Once my comments are addressed and resolved, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 01:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * For the second image in the lead, I would add (left) and (right) by the people's name just to make it clear who is who in the photo.
 * A majority of the dependent clauses with dates (i.e. "On 9 December 2011 Chhetri netted" and "On 5 September 2019 Chhetri") do not use commas to separate it from the rest of the sentence. The only exception that I see is this sentence "As of 5 September 2019, he has scored 72 goals in 112 official international appearances since his debut on 12 June 2005 against Pakistan." I would remove the comma for consistency with the rest of the lead.
 * Fixed. In the image, its sufficienet to add only Chhetri(left) as there are two people only, its obvious the other person will be (right), so added Chhetri (left). and commas are used after both of the dates. I hope all done. Dey subrata (talk) 10:43, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response. I support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 11:25, 28 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Support - meets all relevant criteria Spiderone  19:51, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

*My personal preference would be to apply column widths to the first three tables for a cleaner look/transition between the three. (Optional)
 * Comments
 * "Sunil Chhetri is an Indian professional footballer, who..." The comma is unnecessary.
 * "His tally of 72 puts him as the tenth highest goalscorer..." Add a hyphen to make it "tenth-highest".
 * "In his debut match on 12 June 2005 against arch-rival Pakistan Chhetri scored..." Add a comma after "Pakistan".
 * "He is the only Indian footballer to score 50 international goals and..." Add a comma after "goals".
 * "1 in the King's Cup [6][16]" There is a space between "Cup" and the references. Either move them to the end of the sentence, or add a comma after "Cup" and remove the space.
 * The second image needs alt text.
 * The first table uses "#" for goal number, but the second two use "Goal". Choose one or the other. Also...
 * "#" should not be used to indicate number; use "No." instead (if you choose this style).
 * Why is "FIFA allows a maximum of six substitutions..." smaller?
 * The three International statistics tables need row and col scope.
 * Some references are in title case (1, 2, 4) others are sentence case (3, 7, 10). Choose one style and apply to all refs.
 * All else looks fine. NatureBoyMD (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * All fixed. That line in small is because its secondary and extra information, not a summary for the section. Thank you for the review. Dey subrata (talk) 18:56, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Regarding applying column widths to the first three tables: What I meant was applying fixed widths to all three tables in this section so that the columns of all three would be aligned. I now realize that the first table has a "Cap" column, but the other do not. This extra column would make it impossible to align correctly. Please disregard this comment. I have removed the fixed widths you added since they force some of the dates to wrap.
 * The row/col scope in "Appearances and goals by competition" and "Appearances and goals by opposition" tables needs adjusting (scope needs to come first).
 * NatureBoyMD (talk) 19:14, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Both Ronaldo and Messi articles are using later. Please let me know. Dey subrata (talk) 19:22, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Support Works for me. NatureBoyMD (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

I have a lot of issues with your list before I can reasonably say I would want to support it. I will try to do a source review very soon.
 * Comments from KingSkyLord


 * Don't refer to the 2011 SAFF Championship as the "2011 SAFF Cup" as the former is its official name.
 * Remove the list of his hat-tricks and unofficial goal. As interesting as they may be, I think that it is a little too niche to mention them in their own section. Those hat-tricks are already in List of India national football team hat-tricks and are listed inside the main list itself. I don't know why an unofficial goal is mentioned in this article but it is definitely not noteworthy considering that it was scored in a match where India made 10 substitutions, almost enough to replace an entire squad.
 * Anyways, those were my major gripes with the list. I look forward to seeing you improve this list considering how interesting Chhetri's international career is. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 03:47, 15 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for review and valuable inputs. I have mostly fixed all your concerns except four of your concerns:


 * 2nd point, its a necessary info, other FL articles include such for example list of Messi you can check or Bale where you urself is the nominator i think.
 * third point, also added because the same is used later in the lead which I mistakenly removed before while editing, same you can find at FL articles like list of Messi and is also discussed in the first "resolved comments by the first editor Chris the Dude", you can check above.
 * Fouth point, Confusing, I don't find SAFF as SAF anywhere, please let me know what you are pointing, I will rectify if there is such.
 * Last point, about unofficial match (unofficial by FIFA, for AIFF its international goal for which they celebrated Chhetri's 100 caps while it was not 100) so, for viewers and readers it necessary to provide all information, most importantly he scored a goal in that match, is a international friendly match for both the Federation. Thats why not opposed by other 5 reviewers. And the hat-trick, its a very big achievements in football, are considered as an important statistics and a measure of accomplishment as they are rare. Secondly, its a record for Chhetri as most number of hat-tricks, and a related viatl info just like the "Statistics". As in other FL list, stats of hat-tricks are linked to series articles like of Roanldo or Messi (the box thing added below), it can't be done here in Chhetri's article as such series of articles is not created for Chehtri and also not possible as his careers is not illustrated as them. Secondly hat-tricks mentioned in other articles does not mean we can't add here, when its a vital information and a smooth read. Similarly most of the informations in the article is also mentioned in Chhetri's main article, but that does not mean it must not be added here. Again, I must bring to your notice that, if you go through Messi, Ronaldo and Bale's list you will find that international statistics are differently presented, some have "appearances and goals by opposition", "goals by confedearation" and "series of article" boxes, some don't have, but it shows that, all articles need not to be similar and can be unique but are correct and have proper structure and follows all citerea. So, such a list does not make the article bad rather making more interesting for readers. All other editors agreed to keep and I would also like to keep it. But rest all your concerns are addressed and fixed accordingly as mentioned. Thank you again. Dey subrata (talk) 14:42, 15 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply, but I do not think you fully understood what I was trying to say. I understand why your first two points and I will let them slide considering how minor they were. I still have a few problems though and those include your last two points and a few new ones.
 * For your third response my criticism, I meant to say "SAFF Cup" and not "SAF Cup", I accidentally made a typo. It would be better if you referred to the competition as the "SAFF Championship" rather than the "SAFF Cup".
 * The official name is SAFF Cup, it was my mistake that I did not maintain consistency the same in the table, now corrected. It was earlier known as SAFF Gold Cup, now known as SAFF Suzuki Cup. It is sometimes called as SAFF Championship, but the offcial recognised name is SAFF Cup. Here is latest cup website.
 * For your last response about why you justify the info about the hat-tricks and unofficial goal, I just think that making it "a little unique" is just an excuse to add a little bit more stats about his international career. Now there is no problem with making the list accessible, but adding the list of hat-tricks and the unofficial goal seems a little too far. No other list article lists every international hat-trick the footballer has ever scored. Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 7 international hat-tricks throughout his entire career, yet none of them are listed on his international goals list. I would rather have it if you mentioned how many hat-tricks and when he scored them in the second paragraph of the prose rather than in its own separate table. The hat-tricks can be clearly seen in the easily readable list that is provided below the prose. Putting when he scored those three hat-tricks in the second paragraph (which is about his goalscoring progression) can allow the reader to be able to understand why he has scored so many international goals so far. Can you at least remove the unofficial goal? It's not counted onto his international goalscoring record and is very useless compared to the hat-trick list. Yes, the AIFF may have "celebrated" it when he played for the senior side 100 times (not 100 official caps as you say), but they aren't the only ones who make a final say of whether or not a match is considered official or not. FIFA are the ones who make a decision on whether or not an international friendly is official or not as they are the ones who help organize the fixture. Clearly, the match was intended to be a public training match and not a full international as India swapped 10 of their players at half-time.
 * Ok, I removed the table for unofficial match, the fact being only one match, and as already being defined in the sentence above, and so included in the footnotes. But for hat-trick list its very ok to keep. Ronaldo's article does not include hat-trick list that does not mean we can't include here. Its problem to not display all facts but not problem in displaying all facts. Secondly, as already mentioned above that, we no need to be similar with other articles but to inspire from them, such as Messi and Bale's list have 2 table of "goals by year and goals by competiton" but where as Ronaldo's list have 4 tables "goals by year, competition & opponents and federation" Do we need to question why Ronaldo's list have these extra 2 table whether other lists don't have. Its not that Ronaldo article was promoted before Messi's, it was in June 2018 and Messi's was in Jnauary 2018. But I like the Roanldo article more as its more interesting as its presenting more information. Thirdly, though Messi and Ronaldo's list does not include hat-tricks but they have those "Series of article box" where all their hat-trick international and clubs are mentioned which is not possible for Chhetri's to make as there is none such series of article, if in future such a series of article is made, we can think on it. The thing is that, this table making the article interesting for readers and it follows all critereas. And as i moentioned all editors agree on it. Anyway, I gave a thought on the unoffcial match and find it not necessary, so removd as mentioned. I am ok with it. Thank you. Dey subrata (talk) 15:31, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This list definitely suffers from WP:OVERCITE as references 1 and 6 are used more than four times, which is more times than they need to be used in the same article. I would highly recommend if you could at least put Ref 1 as an external link as well, seeing as how it is currently being used six times in this list. If you could at least remove the references to Source 1 from
 * Fixed and added that one in the externals.
 * Those are my concerns for now. I genuinely want to see this list improved and actually become an FL for once. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 02:23, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , you haven't returned to this FLC in a while. Would you mind having a look at the list again and seeing whether the nominator has adequately addressed your comments? Giants2008  ( Talk ) 02:34, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * @ and @ lol I almost forgot. I've been very busy lately. Based on what I've seen right now, it seems as if all of my points have been addressed. Now, I am finally very happy to support this list's promotion to featured status. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 02:53, 16 November 2019 (UTC)


 * With the most recent edit, I'd say the source review has been passed. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 20:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Promoting. -- Pres N  21:55, 17 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.