Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/James A. Garfield assassination

James A. Garfield assassination

 * Reason:Good scan, nice period engraving of the event.
 * Proposed caption:An engraving of James A. Garfield's assassination in the ladies' room of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad depot on July 2, 1881. Published in Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper. President Garfield is at center right, leaning after being shot. He is supported by Secretary of State James G. Blaine who wears a light colored top hat. To left, assassin Charles Guiteau is restrained by members of the crowd, one of whom is about to strike him with a cane.
 * Articles this image appears in:James A. Garfield
 * Creator:Engraving by A. Berghaus and C. Upham and uploaded by Mdd4696


 * Support as nominator Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 02:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Support I think it would make a good addition Lipton sale (talk) 03:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Question. As this is apparently nominated as a historic piece rather than an artistic piece, is there any evidence to support that the scene shown ever actually occurred, rather than just being an artistic interpretation of the assassination attempt? I'd be somewhat dubious myself.--jjron (talk) 09:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ?? strange question.. it was made to accompany the news item of the day, in lieu of on-the-spot photography I assume. The event has a whole section in the article, if you care to look! --mikaultalk 11:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, no, not strange. Yes I have read the section in the article, thank you very much for your concern, and it didn't satisfy my doubts. While it may be true that at the least the key individuals depicted were present, it would be like featuring a drawing of the Kennedy assassination with the noted individuals concerned all conveniently fitted in there; it might be kind of interesting, but not verified as accurate. As I said originally, this is supposedly showing a specific historic event, that in reality most likely never occurred as depicted, so therefore I would suggest it lacks encyclopaedic value. --jjron (talk) 12:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a second depiction here. In the second image, apparently drawn from a few moments afterward, the lady in with the white apron is now supporting Garfield; in both images her costume is the same, which suggests historical accuracy. Two new figures appear, the guy in the white suit and the kid covering his eyes. The sec of state is now on the other side. From comparing the images, it is reasonable to assume they are historically accurate depictions of the same event but not quite the same moment in time. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 19:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said above I'm sure some elements are accurate, e.g., the key figures such as Blaine and Guiteau. It would interesting to know who that woman in the white 'apron' is - being so prominent in both pictures she must be someone significant, perhaps his wife or a daughter. Looking at this image she looks suspiciously like the woman in pink at the back centre (so why isn't she identified anywhere?). I also wonder why Colonel Sanders is so prominent in the second one ;-). I spose the real point of my comment though is that it is highly unlikely that any artistic representation will truly depict the events of situation like this as it really happened, and will thus lack that encyclopaedic value we look for. Maybe if it was a great work of art you could overlook that in favour of the artistic merits of the work, but for a line drawing/engraving/whatever - ehh, probably not. --jjron (talk) 08:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't agree with this line of reasoning. The engraving was the medium of choice for what is now "spot news photography". The technology simply did not exist in terms of portability or exposure speed to capture events such as an assassination. Although clearly there is some level of interpretation going on, the engraver took the same responsibility as any reporter or as courtroom illustrators do today, with allowances for the era. Given we understand today that photographs can mislead or even lie, this seems an odd position. This would have been seen, and taken at face value, by millions of newspaper readers.--Dhartung | Talk 22:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not really an outstanding example of its kind. The cross-hatching has some odd moiré going on in it, spoiling the shading, while outlines seem a little heavy-handed. There's some residual merit in its historical value but nothing so great as to thrust it into the limelight, so to speak. --mikaultalk 11:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose as the scan is subpar. This is a familiar image of an important event but we have much better scans of engravings. If a better scan of this one could be found I would support. --Dhartung | Talk 22:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Both the scan and the engraving itself are not what I consider to be FP quality. It's interesting and historically valuable, to be sure, but that's not enough IMO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dante Alighieri (talk • contribs) 20:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

MER-C 02:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)