Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2016 October 23

= October 23 =

Uploading image PD-PRE1978.
Might someone quickly explain how to upload an image that does not have a copyright using PD-PRE1978 on Wiki Commons? Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The Commons Upload Wizard will walk you through the process, which includes specifying the file's copyright status. If you need assistance with uploading to Commons, see the Commons help pages or ask at the Commons help desk. Your account works on all Wikimedia sites including Commons, so you won't need to register a new account. --47.138.165.200 (talk) 01:32, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you are asking which copyright tag to use: On Wikipedia PD-pre-1978 redirects to Template:PD-US-no notice, and the commons equivalent of that is Commons:Template:PD-US-no notice. Is that what you wanted? —teb728 t c 02:32, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * teb728 Yes. Thank you, very much. Maineartists (talk) 02:52, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Spencer Matthews
The section heading "Personal Life'' is too big - bigger than the other headings on this page. Please fix - I did not do this edit - but I did edit the section. Thanks139.216.210.155 (talk) 00:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * ✅ It only needed an additional "=" sign each side of it to move it from a "level 1" (not used within articles) to a "level 2" heading. Eagleash (talk) 00:59, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Automatic watching of the TFA
Hey there, is there any way I can have the featured article of the day automatically on my watchlist during its debut on the main page? This would be a great tool for counter-vandalism contributors in the future if it isn't already. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 06:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello, a simple way would be to add the code Special:History/ to your user page and to click on that to check the changes to the featured article on a daily basis. A bit more complicated would be to write a simple script in your .js page to link up the above code to appear in your Tools list (on the left) or in your top menu. Hope this helps. Lourdes  16:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Referencing errors on OBD-II PIDs
Reference help requested.

This is my first edit, ReferenceBot claims that I have broken references, but I have no idea how to fix this.

Thanks, DrMickeyLauer (talk) 09:34, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you are intentionally using efn rather than an ordinary tag, you need to insert a notelist where you want the note list to be displayed. Otherwise switch to a ref tag. —teb728 t c 09:57, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see you copied a cell from another table. The other table has a one-item note list under it, which is generated by notelist. If you want the note list repeated under your table, I suppose you would copy the notelist under your table. —teb728 t c 10:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Are GANs logged or archived?
How can I find all the GANs that I was involved with? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:22, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You could try [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&profile=advanced&fulltext=Search&search=Dodger67+hastemplate%3A%22Good+article+tools%22&ns1=1 this] search. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:37, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that delivered what I needed. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:30, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Photo from PC
Afternoon,

How can I add a photograph from a Computer file and insert it on a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Churchy1 (talk • contribs) 11:38, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia takes copyright seriously so whether you can do it depends on the photo. Where did you get it from, what is on it, do you own the copyright or know its license, and where do you want to use it? If it's the photo you added in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=St_John%27s_Parish_Church,_South_Hornchurch&diff=next&oldid=745806313] then it looks like you worked it out and there are no issues. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:07, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Paintings


These 3 paintings of Guru Nanak and other Sikh Gurus are not in-line with the ideology of Guru Nanak and the Sikh faith. For example, in the photographs, Guru Nanak is shown wearing something that looks like a hat with a ceremonial Hindu mark on the forehead.

Regarding the Tilak (ceremonial mark on the forehead) Guru Nanak says,

ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥

Dhhothee Ttikaa Naam Samaal ||

So make the remembrance of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead.

ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

Aithhai Outhhai Nibehee Naal ||

Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you.

ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥੨॥

Vin Naavai Hor Karam N Bhaal ||2||

Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. ||2||

ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੫੫

Raag Asa (M: 1) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 355

These verses were recited by Guru Nanak when he denounced the Hindu Jenau ceremony. In these verses he suggests that people should recite and remember Waheguru rather than practicing useless ceremonies such as applying marks on foreheads.

Here is another Shabad from Guru Granth Sahib that denounces the Tilak.

ਪੂਜਾ ਵਰਤ ਤਿਲਕ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ ਪੁੰਨ ਦਾਨ ਬਹੁ ਦੈਨ ॥

Poojaa Varath Thilak Eisanaanaa Punn Dhaan Bahu Dhain ||

Worship, fasting, ceremonial marks on one's forehead, cleansing baths, generous donations to charities and self-mortification

ਕਹੂੰ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸੰਜਮ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਮੀਠੇ ਬੈਨ ॥੧॥

Kehoon N Bheejai Sanjam Suaamee Bolehi Meethae Bain ||1||

- the Lord Master is not pleased with any of these rituals, no matter how sweetly one may speak. ||1||

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੭੪

Raag Dhanaasree Guru Granth Sahib : Page 674

According to Vaaran Bhai Gurdas, applying the tilak is a Hindu practice:

ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣ ਦੀ ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਞੂ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਲੋਭਾਣੇ।

Sounnati Mousalamaan Dee Tilak Joon Hindoo Lobhaanay.

Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੨੧

Vaaran Bhai Gurdas : Vaar 1 Pauri 1

According to Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs are not Hindus:

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥

Naa Ham Hindhoo N Musalamaan ||

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

ਭੈਰਉ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬

Raag Bhaira-o (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 1136

Regarding the hat, Guru Granth Sahib says,

ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ ॥

Kaaeiaa Kiradhaar Aourath Yakeenaa ||

Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ ॥

Rang Thamaasae Maan Hakeenaa ||

Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥

Naapaak Paak Kar Hadhoor Hadheesaa Saabath Soorath Dhasathaar Siraa ||12||

Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let the turban on your head be your awareness. ||12||

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੮੪

Raag Maaroo (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 1084

The turban is symbol given by the Gurus to the Sikhs to remind them of the path they have chosen. There is no historical evidence that suggests Guru Nanak wore a hat.

What is the procedure to remove these paintings for Wikipedia? Sikh Historian 16:33, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I see you have already posted this question on the article's talk page. That's where it belongs. And I see someone has already answered your question over there.
 * If you don't agree with their answer, the talk page would be the first place for further discussion. But check the Wikipedia guidelines on use of sources and images first. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 16:59, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Phone numbers
Hi, what's the policy here on handling phone numbers you find on talk pages? --93.212.237.92 (talk) 16:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Phone numbers are removed according to Wikipedia policies. Fuortu (talk) 17:29, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you cite a source, please? &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 17:33, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Postscript: I was not able to find any policy governing this issue, it seems that the only instance where a phone number should be removed from a talk page is if it is not the editor's, according to WP:TPNO. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 17:36, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * See WP:OS. Fuortu (talk) 17:39, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Suppression is for "removal of non-public personal information … of pseudonymous or anonymous individuals who have not made their identity public": since the user has willingly revealed this information about themselves in accordance with Privacy policy, it does not require suppression, yet it seems to have been suppressed although, the revision has been deleted under WP:RD5. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 17:52, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * They haven't made their identity public. Then oversight policy still applies here, IMO. Thanks Fuortu (talk) 18:21, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * According to WP:WIA, your one's identity could be simply an interest, which was revealed in their comment, therefore proving against the need for suppression since they have made their identity public. I recognize that we may be in a dispute and could require a WP:3O. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 18:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Just to add another consideration, aside from the question if the user revealed this information about themselves voluntarily: I don't think that whole contribution belonged there in the first place. It has nothing to do with article improvement but is a contact request. So I guess we might as well have deleted the whole contribution, but that of course would have left the phone number in the talk page history. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * according to WP:TPO, off-topic comments can be collapsed or deleted in some cases. Seeing as this user seems to be trying to contact the subject of the article I'm gonna go ahead and delete it, please let me know what you think. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 18:18, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you ask me - sure, go ahead. The user apparently made two small contributions in March and has never reappeared since. So let's assume or hope he found the contact info he was looking for elsewhere.
 * Which, BTW, should also make us consider the possibility that he may have been an inexperienced internet or Wikipedia user who does not quite realize what he is doing, publishing his phone number openly. So I think Fuortu's decision was correct. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 18:30, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, there is no mercy with the Privacy policy. By editing on this any Wikimedia project site, you agree that certain information you've shared can be publicly utilized regardless of if you've read it or not. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 18:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but I don't quite see what this case has to do with the Privacy policy. I am sure that Wikimedia can still access that phone number even after deletion. I assume that they still could, by their Privacy policy, easily utilize that number publicly in some way if they chose to.
 * But that's not what we are talking about here, is it? We are talking about a user who disclosed his phone number not only to Wikimedia (the realm where the privacy policy would apply) but to the whole world. And we can certainly have some mercy there and protect inexperienced users from their own inexperience. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 20:20, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for deleting the other one. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 20:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

From draft to publication
Hello, My article was put into draft version because of multiple issues. Now that I updated everything in draft version I would like to publish it again. How should I proceed? Many thanks for your help! It is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Mohammad_Hossein_Allafi Best, Wiesel01 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiesel01 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * You need to read the links which were placed on your user talk page, including WP:Your first article and Help:Referencing for beginners. When you have updated the draft to meet Wikipedia's requirements, you can submit it for AFC review by adding   to the top of the article, but don't try submitting it yet because without references it would definitely be rejected. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:13, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, I had just written the following but David Biddulph was a bit faster:
 * Others may chime in on the question of how to proceed for publishing it, but just one detail for further article improvement if I may:
 * You seem to have based the article on the German one. The German article does not exactly overflow with inline citations, but it has at least some. Make sure you transfer those into the English version to support your claims. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 21:16, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * @David Biddulph: You say that "without references it would definitely be rejected". That does make me wonder how all those completely unreferenced articles managed to make it into Wikipedia...? --93.212.237.92 (talk) 21:26, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * They got there because they weren't reviewed when created and because nobody has yet proposed their deletion. See WP:Other stuff exists. - David Biddulph (talk) 21:30, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, my question didn't mean to justify not referencing this article (it couldn't have, see my contribution above). I was really just wondering, because I hit upon such a mass of completely unsourced articles lately, if maybe this review process had been introduced (or possibly made mandatory) at some point. I guess it hasn't. --93.212.237.92 (talk) 21:56, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Done.

Thank you again. Best, Wiesel01

Referencing errors on Draft:Nancy Hemenway Barton
Reference help requested.

I have received two responses saying that the article is fine but that there is a citation/source error. Could you please tell me what needs to be done to this article? Happy to do it but am new.

Thanks, Fdbmaine (talk) 23:06, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the credit but all I did was remove stray ref tags. There's a mass of unformatted ext. links / further reading and bare urls at the bottom of the page which will need sorting before the reviewer will accept it. In addition the reviewer is asking for more sources I think. Eagleash (talk) 06:49, 24 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I've now tidied the urls etc., the reviewer seems to require more in-line citations. Eagleash (talk) 10:41, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

How to link to a section
Can someone instruct me how to link to a specific section on a talk page, desk or noticeboard rather than linking the entire page? Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 23:08, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * You'll find the process described at Help:Link. --David Biddulph (talk) 23:13, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah! David Biddulph I can always count on you! Thank you! Maineartists (talk) 23:17, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So sorry to bother you again, David Biddulph. I "think" I placed the correct anchor tag link on the section / page, but I'm not sure my section link to the anchor is correct. What am I doing wrong? SO much thanks to you in advance![1] Maineartists (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Internal link moved inline. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 01:14, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * your anchor is working correctly, you've placed it just under the heading Simple inclusion of a notable recurring character and that's where it will bring those who follow your link; I was able to find my way to the anchor through the link. If this wasn't the answer you were looking for, feel free to reply back! &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 01:21, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, Skyllfully!! It's always great to speak with someone new! Thanks so much for answering! I'm glad you were able to access the link - but normally, it brings you directly to the section itself, not just the page: which is what mine is doing for some reason. Hmmm ...??? Did it bring you right to the section? or just to the page? Thanks! Maineartists (talk) 01:32, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It brought me to your anchor, Maineartists. &mdash;Skyllfully (talk &#124; contribs) 01:34, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Skyllfully Hooray! Thank you! Maineartists (talk) 01:55, 24 October 2016 (UTC)