Wikipedia:Peer review/Ron Swanson/archive1

Ron Swanson


Hello! I recently stumbled across this article and saw that it was a big mess for its GA status (the old version for reference) so I have decided to try and make the article better. I'd love to get some help on the prose as I'm not the best at that. Currently, I'm working on the reception section and I plan to add a table for the awards and nominations soon. Spinixster  (chat!)  07:41, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Some thoughts on organization:
 * a. Should the sections about his personality and job be merged? Much of the job section is describing his in-office behavior and the part about him being a saxophonist is definitely within "personality" more than any of the other sections
 * b. I think there should be some brief overview of his appearances and storylines akin to how it is in other TV character articles. I do agree that the linked version was messy and I especially think the storyline section was way too long but I think there could be a way to super-consolidate it into key events e.g. his first appearance, hiring April, finale, etc. Eithersummer (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Eithersummer Thank you for the response!
 * I had been debating whether or not I should merge the two sections before, but I wasn't sure if I should because many other articles had them separate. If you think they should be, I will definitely merge them.
 * For the storylines part, I was thinking of some recent character GAs (like Rosa Diaz, which also briefly overviews her storylines, just not in a different section but rather combined with other parts of the article). Do you think I should do it like that? Or a separate section would be better?
 * Spinixster  (chat!)  09:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I haven't watched much Parks and Rec ever, so I don't know if long arcs are a key component of the show or if they are just a backdrop (e.g. how the Big Bang Theory had "arcs" carrying on across episodes but nobody is ever going to say that BBT was a storyline-driven show).
 * If its primary focus is long arcs and there is some defined key Ron Swanson arc then a storyline section could be useful.
 * Otherwise the Rosa Diaz example sounds like a good example to follow. Eithersummer (talk) 13:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll try to add some information relating to his storylines. Spinixster   (chat!)  13:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I forgot to mention. Ron's storyline doesn't have many key points; for most of the show, he's pretty much the same. The old version is basically a summary of every single episode he's in, so it doesn't help much. I think the current version covers all the key points already (it is partly a summary of the old Background section), but I tried to add more. @Eithersummer What do you think now? Spinixster   (chat!)  14:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * After re-reading the old version I've come to the conclusion that Ron isn't as much of a plot pivot as I had previously understood. The April example I gave earlier was a misreading - I thought that him hiring April was the means by which she was introduced as a character.
 * Given that he is primarily a supporting character (based on Nick Offerman getting nominated for supporting cast awards), he doesn't change much as per what you've said, and the fact that he doesn't seem to have a lot of long-term storyline "force" (for lack of a better term) I think that integrating some notable moments into his background and personality as examples of how he is - for example, "he occasionally demonstrates himself as a good manager"; some example of him being a good manager would be warranted like how the gun on the desk is an indicator of how he hates talking to most other people.
 * Also, as a side note I forgot to mention: I am unsure whether the libertarianism infobox should be in the article and vice-versa. It doesn't appear based on the article that the Ron character is a part of libertarian culture so much as a rendering/satire of it from a non-libertarian, like how Disney's Aladdin isn't considered a part of Arabic culture.
 * But there does seem to be somewhat limited evidence that Ron had some kind of political symbolism attached to him. Offerman's talked about the subject a couple of times, particularly on the subject of right-wing types taking up Swanson as an icon and bending him to fit their beliefs.
 * Offerman saying that some people did not understand Ron's general libertarian beliefs to be a joke
 * Offerman saying that "sad Libertarian fans" have misread Ron as right-wing and misogynist
 * “I’ve argued with fans over whether or not I am actually Ron Swanson and, pretty quickly, I was like: ‘OK, I’ve been a part of this narrative that is a medicinal part of their escapism, and I don’t want to diminish that.’” (Not directly a "is Ron a libertarian icon" thing but maybe useful for reception. A lot of the articles about Offerman drawing a boundary between him and the Ron character appear to have come in the wake of his The Last of Us role with this one being an example.)
 * There was one article I found that was more directly about Ron being a subject of praise from the National Review and other conservative outlets. (link)
 * The case for the infobox seems to cut both ways, with there being proof but not airtight proof. Eithersummer (talk) 01:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I will try to fix that.
 * I had also thought of why the Libertarian template was in the article, but I think more opinions would be needed for its removal. I’ll update when I finish the edits. Spinixster   (chat!)  15:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, @Eithersummer, how is it now? Right after the good manager sentence, there are a few examples of how he demonstrates himself to be a good manager, though I understand it is not noticeable at first glance, so I have reworded and expanded it. Spinixster   (chat!)  10:33, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks good in terms of the manager thing. If the "Director" section is going to get its own header I think the header should be changed to something more general because the section also talks about his jazz exploits - something like "Job"? Or the "Romance" section could be integrated with the jazz thing and titled "Personal Life". It's something to consider especially if those parts are going to be expanded. Eithersummer (talk) 01:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I'll look into that. Spinixster   (chat!)  10:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Eithersummer, sorry for lack of updates. I have merged the Duke Silver paragraph into a personal life section, like you said. Do you have any other comments? Spinixster   (chat!)  00:52, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

This is already a great article; the development section is a bit small, but if there isn't any other info, that's ok- lovely work, and let me know if you take it to FAC! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:22, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * MyCatIsAChonk
 * - I usually see the descriptor go before the show/movie, as it reads better (IMO); I also think you can shorten the descriptor to "sitcom" and mentioning political satire is important since much of Ron's character is related to his political beliefs
 * - pit the despite phrase at the start: "Despite the creators' intentions, NBC was initially..."
 * - of the, of the... ordering succession can be confusing, and I prefer to minimize it as much as possible; perhaps, "Ron Swanson is known as the director of the fictional Pawnee, Indiana Parks and Recreation Department..."
 * - I don't believe "a" is needed
 * - is the Ty Burrell detail isn't needed for the lead?
 * - move Chur detail to front: "While researching for the show in Burbank, Schur met a Libertarian elected official who favored as little government interference as possible, becoming an inspiration for some of Swanson's traits."
 * Is Kabuki capitalized?
 * - to is used twice; "After the creators refused to find other actors for the role..."
 * - I'm not sure what this means; was he in the position for six years by the time the series began, or was he director for six years once the series began?
 * - bottle of alcohol? As far as I remember, it's not actual alcohol- what specific beverage does he chug? If there's no specificity, "alcoholic beverages" is better
 * - "for instance" is unnecessary; instead, use the episode title
 * - can we get a link for the park project, perhaps to an episode article? People who haven't seen P&R will not know what this means
 * - cut
 * - starting a new para with "however" is odd; IMO, it's fine without
 * - this switches from past tense to present tense; choose one and stay consistent (I'd use the latter)
 * Wl avuncular and stoicism
 * - double ands, split into two sentences
 * Surprised that Swanson's care for his employees and alter ego as Duke Silver isn't mentioned in the lead
 * - period goes outside of quotes per WP:QINQ; apply this MOS standard to the other quotes too
 * Ref 82 is listed as dead but the original url works fine for me
 * The top link in "External links" is a redirect to Peacock now


 * @MyCatIsAChonk Thank you for the response! I have made most of the changes you suggested. To respond to a few points,
 * Point 8: Yes, he was in the position for six years by the time the series began.
 * Point 11: I linked Pilot (Parks and Recreation). Is it okay?
 * This is mostly a rewrite from the original, so the props should go to the original nominator, but if possible, I might take it to FAC. Spinixster   (chat!)  08:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * All good, very nice work MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 10:53, 9 October 2023 (UTC)