Wikipedia:Peer review/Scott Carson/archive1

Scott Carson
grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.
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This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because has done some really good work on this article, and I myself have also contributed, although to a lesser extent. We think the article is now getting close to Good Article quality and would welcome comments with that goal in mind, but any advice that would improve the article generally would be excellent. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on how we should cover the Croatia game, without overplaying or underplaying its significance, and what quotes (if any) we might use around it. Cheers, Jameboy (talk) 20:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments from

 * Carson did not make any appearances for Leeds in the 2004–05 season,[11] and although Leeds were keen to retain Carson,[12] he rejected offers of a new contract and with his contract due to expire in the summer of 2004, he was sold to Liverpool in January 2005 for a transfer fee of £750,000.[13][14]
 * This sentence is too long and the bit about his contract expiring in 2004 and being sold in 2005 is apparently contradictory. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done Shortened and split the sentence into two sentences. Corrected the error: his contract was to expire in 2005 not 2004.


 * He returned to Liverpool at the end of the season and in July 2006, extended his contract with Liverpool by two years, keeping him at the club until 2011.[22]
 * This needs to be changed. Even though he signed a contract that was due to last until 2011, he was sold in 2008. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done Now "...extended his contract with Liverpool until 2011."


 * Carson did not want to sit on the substitute bench at Liverpool for another season while Liverpool wanted him to gain experience and return to compete with Jose Reina for a place in the first-team in the 2007–08 season,[23] and in August 2006, Carson joined Charlton Athletic on loan for the 2006–07 season,[24] after Charlton failed in a bid for Norwich City goalkeeper Robert Green.[25]
 * This sentence needs to be broken up. One way of fixing it is to remove the first part, because I doubt if there is evidence that Carson wanted to play elsewhere at that point. The fact Liverpool wanted him to gain experience is evidenced by the fact he was loaned out. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done partly done - have broken up the sentence but not yet looked at the evidence aspect. Used a direct quotation from Carson to explain his reasoning for the move.
 * he played in all but three of Villa's 38 league matches, keeping 11 clean sheets, during the 2007–08 season.[30][31]
 * From memory, I think two of the games he missed were due to Villa not being able to use him against Liverpool due to the contract between the two clubs. This may be worth mentioning. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done + citations.


 * A week later, he made his competitive debut in a crucial match against Croatia, which England lost 3–2 and were eliminated from Euro 2008, with Carson being held particularly culpable for the first goal.[46]
 * Maybe I'm biased, but I think the way that goal was conceded by Carson is worth mentioning. "Shot from 25-30 yards by Niko Kranjčar that was straight at Carson, who could only spill the ball into the net". Or something like that. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:57, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done

Comments from

 * Lead
 * Should only be three paragraphs per WP:LEAD.
 * Wikilink England national football team.
 * done and done


 * Career
 * "He played nine games, keeping five clean sheets and helping Wednesday to 18 points, and was a key factor in helping Wednesday to escape relegation." I had to read this a couple of times to understand it. I suggest a re-word after points.
 * done


 * "Carson did not want to sit on the substitute bench at Liverpool for another season while Liverpool wanted him to gain experience and return to compete with Jose Reina for a place in the first-team in the 2007–08 season,[23] and in August 2006, Carson joined Charlton Athletic on loan for the 2006–07 season,[24] after Charlton failed in a bid for Norwich City goalkeeper Robert Green." A long sentence. I suggest breaking it up.
 * done


 * "He made 38 appearances and was in outstanding form" POV; needs a reference.
 * done (removed "outstanding form" until I can find a supporting quote. The fact that he won the supporters' award is evidence enough that he performed well for now).
 * Restored 'outstanding' and added a citation to the Evening Standard to support it.


 * "Charlton Supporters' Club" Is this their name or is it "Charlton Athletic Supporters' Club"?
 * not yet done Link seems to have gone dead, trying to find replacement if that is the case.
 * Now done You're right, it is "Charlton Athletic Supporters' Club". Dead link now replaced with live one.


 * Why did he finally leave Liverpool? Was it his choice or Benitez's?
 * done Added a quote and citation. Carson wanted to settle down at a club having played for five clubs in four years.


 * International
 * "Carson was first called up to the England Under-21 squad in October 2003, a month after his 18th birthday, for the UEFA Under-21 Championship 2004 qualifier against Turkey, despite having played only four games for England at other levels and having not yet made his competitive debut for Leeds United's first team,[4] and made his under-21 debut four months later in a 3–2 win for England against the Netherlands in February 2004." Another long sentence.
 * done


 * "with Carson being held particularly culpable for the first goal." I would say why he was culpable.
 * done

Seems pretty close to GA standard, if not already there. Peanut4 (talk) 23:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments from

 * In the lead, why is the league he plays in called the "English Premier League"? That's not its name, and it's not like he's a foreign player where maybe you need to make clear that he plays in England - it should just say "Premier League"
 * Done.


 * Why is Workington AFC referred to as "Workington Reds"? Again, that's not the club's name
 * Done - dropped "Reds" part. --Jameboy (talk) 11:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "coming on as a late substitution" - "coming on as a late substitute" surely.........?
 * Done --Jameboy (talk) 11:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "and although Leeds were keen to retain Carson" - I'd just say "and although Leeds were keen to retain him", it's clear who is being referred to
 * Done This part was reworded in response to Jmorrison230582's comment but I think it also reflects your comment.


 * "with his contract due to expire in the summer of 2004, he was sold to Liverpool in January 2005" - a bit of timeline confusion there, methinks....
 * Done Yes, should have been summer of 2005...


 * "He made four appearances in the 2005–06 season, all in cup competitions" - I'd maybe say "He only made four appearances in the 2005–06 season, all in cup competitions" to stress that he was struggling to gain a place and that's why they loaned him out
 * Done


 * "helping the club to escape relegation" - should just be "helping the club escape relegation"
 * Done


 * "Carson did not want to sit on the substitute bench" - "substitutes' bench" is a more usual turn of phrase
 * Done This part has been reworded and the reference to 'substitute bench' lost completely.


 * "Carson was loaned out again to Aston Villa for a fee of £2 million" - how can a player be loaned out for a transfer fee? I don't understand
 * Done The BBC says, "Aston Villa have signed Liverpool goalkeeper Scott Carson on a season-long loan in a deal costing £2m." I have removed the reference to a 'fee' and just mention a 'cost'.


 * "Carson returned to Liverpool at the end of the 2007–08 season and in July 2008 joined West Bromwich Albion on a four year contract for a £3.25 million fee" - maybe change "and joined" to "but joined", as currently there's no natural progression between him returning to Anfield and then leaving
 * Done.


 * A general point - is it usual to have quotations in italics?
 * Done The MOS says no. I have removed them.


 * "led to Carson, who was on standby, being being promoted" - spot the stutter :-)
 * D-d-done --Jameboy (talk) 11:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "made his second appearance for the England B team in a 3–1 win over Albania national football team" - should simply say "made his second appearance for the England B team in a 3–1 win over Albania" (unpiped link)
 * Done.


 * The award he won at Charlton is referred to in one place as the "Charlton Athletic Supporters' Club Player of the Year" and in another as the "Charlton Athletic Fan's Player of the Year" - which is correct.........?
 * Done. Charlton Athletic Supporters' Club player of the year.

On the whole, an excellent article which should easily make GA with only a few little tweaks -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)