Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 January 13

= January 13 =

Hobby colliding with economical activity
Can a hobby, like fishing or hunting, collide with a similar economical activity? I understand that fishing is mostly an industrialized and boring field, but high sea tuna fish fishing could be interesting without an economical reward and the same applies to some forms of hunting, when the targets are wolves or wild porks. 88.9.214.197 (talk) 02:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't quite understand your question. Here are two possible meanings:


 * 1) "Can some people's hobbies interfere with professionals in that field ?" (Yes, they certainly can, and vice-versa.)


 * 2) "Can I find a hobby where I can also make money ?" (Yes, you can.) StuRat (talk) 05:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Tuna is a common game fish for deep-sea anglers, see Recreational_boat_fishing. Otherwise, StuRat's request for clarification is relevent to your more general question.  Please let us know what kinds of hobbies you have in mind, and what your goal is. -- Jayron  32  05:54, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Arts and crafts, such as knitting, painting, embroidery, furniture making, dress-making, can turn from hobby into a source of income. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:41, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * To me, the question is about a possible conflict between fishing or hunting and another economic activity carried on in the same place. In the Lake District of England, there is a conflict between anglers and people using speedboats as fish don't like to be in the same place as powered vehicles. My apologies if this isn't what you mean! --TammyMoet (talk) 09:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Judging by the tuna and wolves comments, I think StuRat understood it correctly with his second option. In which case, the answer is definitely a "yes" and it's a huge, wide field. Think of any professional sport, for starters. Unless, of course, by "economical activity" you mean something specifically industrial. In which case, there are hordes of cottage industries or small scale market gardening that would count. --Dweller (talk) 09:56, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * StuRat's 2) is what I was searching for. What are my options of outdoor hobbies that would also bring some money? But, please not strange solution like "OVNI spotting and selling the pictures." 88.9.214.197 (talk) 14:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Other than sport or market gardening? Topiary. Painting (both buildings and pictures). --Dweller (talk) 15:29, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I think gardening or small scale farming may qualify. Many people grow their own foods and sell them at farmer's markets.  There are also people who do arts and crafts and sell them at craft fairs as a source of income.  Depending on your level of involvement, these options could be either a secondary or primary source of income.  Another good recommendation is to turn your hobby into your job.  Find what you like to do, that doesn't feel like work, and find a way to make that your primary source of income.  If you like to work outside, maybe work as a park ranger or similar work may appeal to you.  -- Jayron  32  14:35, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Even "small scale" farming may be impacted by law (local, state and federal). Check first. Collect (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * A classic book (from 1935) on making some money from a hobby is "How to ride your hobby," by Archie Frederick Collins. It is widely available in libraries and via Amazon.com and other used book sources. By "riding" he means not just fix up a motorcycle or some such, but rather use your skills at fixing electronics, car repair, repairing small gas engines, pottery, art, music, sewing, making jewelry, photography, writing, woodworking, welding, gardening etc. to make money. If Collins were alive today, he might revise the book to include designing Iphone aps, designing websites, computer geekery such as removing viruses or adding memory and bigger hard drives, Photoshopping to improve or restore photos, recording music, and computerized home automation. In 1942 in the US, James Caesar Petrillo, head of the 130,000 member American Federation of Musicians, objected to amateur musicians (such as high school bands) marching in parades or giving public concerts, or performing on the radio, since they were stealing the bread from the mouths of professional musicians. He wanted a "standby band' of professional musicians to be paid to do nothing while amateur musicians played a radio concert, and suggested that towns should hire bands of professional musicians to march in their 4th of July parade.  He neglected the fact that many members of his union, such as the Dorsey brothers, or himself, started out as teenage amateur musicians giving free concerts and later working for pay, taking bread from the mouths of older professional musicians, that amateur playing was the common route to becoming a professional player, and that few amateurs would continue their studies if there were few opportunities to play for the public.   Etsy.com is a marketplace where crafters and artisans sell handmade things. Often the prices are low, since hobbyists are just trying to break even on the expenses of their hobby, which can create a problem for full time professional crafters trying to make a living selling similar products. The hourly pay may get driven too low to be a "living wage." The pro's work has to stand out above the work of amateurs, just as a skilled painter's work has to somehow be better than the daubings of amateurs, who are content to sell their art and recoup the cost of paint and canvas. In British jump racing, there are both professional and amateur jockeys, with rules governing the work of the amateurs to leave some income for the pros. Sadly, Wikipedia has no article about amateur jockeys, and no mention of them in the Jockey article. Someone familiar with British racing could make a contribution by filling that void. As for fishing, one ancestor of mine was a professional fisherman who would sell his catch to the proprietor of a boat dock, who would ice the fish down and then sell them to men who were taking a fishing vacation, so they could go home and proudly show of the big fish they caught, when in reality they might have been drinking and cavorting with floozies rather than fishing. In this way the interests of pro and amateur fishermen meshed nicely. Edison (talk) 16:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps hiking could be made to pay, say if inspecting something along the way, like fences, weather stations, etc. Hopefully you could just report any problems and somebody else would go and fix them.  Let's say they stop getting the signal from a remote weather station, you could go find it and determine what's wrong, like if a tree fell on it or if it looks intact, but just stopped transmitting. StuRat (talk) 18:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Blue stains on artificial vagina
My toy vagina developed several dark blue stains some time ago, that aren't washable. Why is that and how to remove them?--178.181.123.34 (talk) 02:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * [I've removed the first two answers and moved them to the talk page's already ongoing thread about that sort of answer.]


 * Such toys come in a bunch of different proprietary materials, so the answer would be different depending on what brand the toy is. You'd really have to talk to the manufacturer about which solvents are safe to use on it. Many solvents would dissolve the surface of the toy. (Which I assume would ruin it's "feel".) APL (talk) 04:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Have you by any chance lent it to a male Smurf ? (One can certainly understand the need, what with only the one Smurfette and not many other females.) StuRat (talk) 05:55, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * You can purchase special cleaners that will not damage the plastics, probably from the same place as you originally obtained your toy. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * If you know they aren't washable, you must have some 'care instructions' or similar. Do they provide a clue how to clean the device? If not, as APL said, you'd need to consult with the manufacturer or perhaps as Colapeninsula hinted at, see if the place of purchase or another shop selling sex toys has some idea. Alternatively, depending on the age and cost, perhaps it's worh simply discarding the toy and purchasing a new one. Consider using a condom in the future to keep the toy clean . Nil Einne (talk) 13:00, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. I am making the assumption when you said 'aren't washable', you meant the toy isn't washable. If you meant you've tried washing the stains with soap and water and they didn't come off, you may want to clarify. Nil Einne (talk) 16:16, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

American flag with 13 stars in a circle...


Sorry, don't know the correct term for this flag - it's an older US flag, I presume, when there were only 13 states. What does it mean when someone flies this flag, or has it on the back of their jacket or on the side of a motorbike or whatever (if anything specific)? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 12:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * See Betsy Ross flag (which does not address "what does it mean?") Staecker (talk) 13:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * According to this extremely serious website which interprets the US flag code for anyone concerned about unpatriotic flag-related actions, you can fly whatever version of the flag you want from the oldest to the newest, and they all get equal respect. (They also say you're not allowed to wear any flag on your jacket.) --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Not exactly - flag patches on uniforms etc. are common and proper, as are flag pins for anyone. Collect (talk) 15:00, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That site may be earnest in its interpretation of flag law, but actual U.S. law clearly allows you to use the flag however you wish. Some individual people may see using the flag on clothing as disrespectful, while other people may not see any inherent disrespect in such usage; indeed many people see such use as an inherent sign of respect for the flag.  You will not get any universal agreement on that, and the official position is neutral on the matter per the highest law in the land.  The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that flags, their usage, and their role in speech is protected via both the First and Fourteenth amendments.  See Stromberg v. California, Texas v. Johnson, United States v. Eichman, etc.  If you, as an individual, wish to treat the flag with respect, do so in whatever means you deem for yourself to be respectful, and don't listen to any website's opinion on the matter as being "official". -- Jayron  32  14:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The United States Flag Code is only a law in the sense that it was passed by congress. It carries no penalties or enforcement. It's typically considered an authoritative source for "proper" civilian respect of the flag, but that's it. APL (talk) 23:03, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The circle form was widely during the Bicentennial in 1976 so maybe it was just an old jacket? Or possibly it has some use like the "Don't Tread on Me" flag used by the Tea Party. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 15:41, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That organisation has some nerve in heading its page "Flag Rules and Regulations", as if they were the rules because they say so. The fact is they don't make the rules; (a) they can't purport to be the source of the rules, and (b) they must acknowledge their official source. They've breached both of these fundamental concepts.  So much for rules and regulations.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  20:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Regarding the Betsy Ross flag: Other than the modern 50-star flag, it is literally the only specific historical flag most people are familiar with. There have been dozens of U.S. Flags, and most people wouldn't recognize any of them except the Betsy Ross flag.  The Betsy Ross flag itself conjures up nostalgia for the American Revolution and early American history in a general sense, but I don't think anyone uses it for any overt political statement.  -- Jayron  32  18:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Old fogies like myself may remember the "Spirit of 76" flag that was popular during the United States Bicentennial in 1976. I was the Betsy Ross flag with a 76 inside the circle. I don't think it was an official U.S. flag though, the government came up with this somewhat less lively design. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:46, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually I found it and it even has a name, the "Bennington flag". Beeblebrox (talk) 03:46, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Identification of Halal meat in retail outlets
I heard on the radio that Coles & woolworths are selling meat that meets Halhal standards. My question is who can I contact to ensure that meat slaughtered this way is marked in the Supermarket freezer so that I do not purchase it. I believe my freedom of choise has been arroded because meat slaughtered this way is not labelled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.11.182 (talk) 12:44, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * [Question reformatted, and given own section and title, for clarity. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.159 (talk) 13:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)]
 * Are you sure they don't differentiate between Halal and non-Halal? - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 13:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You can contact the stores. Either speak to the store manager or contact their head offices.  You should be able to get contact details from their corporate websites. (I assume you are in Australia.)  If you are concerned about slaughterhouse practices in Australia, you can also contact DAFF or Animals Australia. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I would have thought it would be clearly marked. There would be little point in marketing the meat if people can't find it. The halal products at our local Northern Store are quite clearly marked. Of course they really don't taste any different from non-halal food. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 18:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Why would one want to avoid Halal meat? HiLo48 (talk) 18:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Those that believe the ritual slaughter, bleeding to death, is inhumane. Also if you liked the blood in the meat. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Or if one were a follower of Sikhism, which prohibits the eating of meat from an animal which has been (in the eyes of the Sikh religion) 'sacrificed', or possibly Hinduism, which does not prohibit eating of Halal or Kosher meat, but followers sometimes have a cultural objection. See Kutha meat. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * One might not want to eat Halal meet because one does not want to be unknowingly converted to Islam, as recently claimed by Australian politician Luke Simpkins. . (My personal POV: I'm an atheist and think that religious practices such as Halal are nonsense, but Simpkins' claim is just ridiculous.) Mitch Ames (talk) 02:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The webpage of the Australian Islamist Monitor contains a page which contains some background information relevant here, and some suggestions about action those who disagree can take (including 'talk to your MP'). See the bottom of this page. Please note that I don't personally agree with the aims & objectives of this group, particularly the Our Objectives page which begins 'Islam in its current form, as preached, taught and propagated by the mainstream Muslim elites, is incompatible with the existing political system in Australia. This is because Islam in this form is not just a religion but an entire political system, and regulatory force, controlling every aspect of the life of its followers and requiring them to actively secure for Islam the dominant, privileged position.' I'm simply aiming to provide information the OP might find useful in answering their question. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Wester Arbreck, Scotland
Where in Scotland is Wester Arbreck located (County, Near a larger city)?. The Anderson Clan Crest lists that it is the Clan Crest of Anderson of Wester Arbreck and I can not find Wester Arbreck on any Scottish Map. Regards, Brian Anderson — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.103.245 (talk) 16:16, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, File:Scottish clan map.png doesn't mention the Andersons, while the final paragraph of the Clan Anderson article is far from clear on the location of their lands. The same article has the interestingly named coat of arms: File:Anderson of Ardbrake arms.svg which suggest to me that "Arbreck" is perhaps a misspelling of "Ardbrake" (or vice-versa).  A search online for Wester Arbreck indicates many (US based?) websites indicating the Andersons have a link with a town/region with that name, but no links to an actual town/region.  If you instead search for ardbrake you get a number of promising links suggesting (Wester) Ardbrake is/was in Banffshire.   Astronaut (talk) 17:34, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

John Anderson of Wester Ardbrake & Westerton was born cica 1610 and died in 1690. He held the lands of Ardbrodin, Drumminor, Argathnie, Ardlunkart, Dummois, & Easter & Meikle Ardbrake in 1630. Westerton is located approximately 1300 yards west of Drummuir Castle at Botriphnie. It exists today as a working farm but in the wall of the old buildings, is an armorial stone showing the Anderson arms. Approximately 1300 yards to the north of Drummuir Castle, is the site of Ardbrake, which was not a village but a house (possibly a tower house). Regretably, all traces have now gone but there is a small cottage in that location that appears to have inherited the name 'Ardbrake. Added by David Waterton-Anderson KSG, 16 FEB 2013 (Chairman: Anderson Association).

' :I agree with Astronaut's work above, particularly the alternative spelling. That led me to this page, a record of a James Anderson who died in 'Wester Ardbrake' (Westertoun of Daftmill), Banffshire, Scotland' having been born in 'Ardbrake, Botriphinie, Banffshire, Scotland'. This confirms what Astronaut said about Banffshire. Assuming that Wester Ardbrake is close to (probably just west of) Ardbrake, I searched for Botriphinie, and found that it is now spelled Botriphnie, and that it is a rather remote village/hamlet with a primary school, located in what is now the county of Moray in the Scottish Highlands. Map here: http://g.co/maps/hebke. The closest 'larger city' is Aberdeen, since there are very few settlements of any size in that part of Scotland. It looks like you had ancestors who lived a rather isolated life, Brian! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Our page on Drummuir says; "Its old name was Botriphnie". Alansplodge (talk) 01:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know what time period we are talking about, but presumably the area was more heavily populated (and Aberdeen less so) before the Highland Clearances and the Industrial Revolution? 81.98.43.107 (talk) 22:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * To my shame, I have to admit that the history of the Scottish Highlands is something I know very little about (thanks, probably, to my education in England). However, following the comments above, I did a little further digging, and discovered that Botriphnie is still the name of a parish, centred on the modern settlement of Drummuir, Drummuir Castle (built 1847) and the Drummuir and Botriphnie Parish Church (built 1820). As 81 mentioned, the area seems to have been heavily affected by the Highland Clearances, and one site I saw claimed the parish held only one house with about 3 occupants for most of the period from 1851-1951. It seems that the area was much more highly populated in the past, but I haven't seen any hard figures online. If you are interested in finding out more, there is a book, The Parish of Botriphnie prior to 1850 (ISBN 978-0-9566780-3-6), available here. I also found a map of the area from 1806, which shows more place names within the parish (sadly not including Ardbrake). - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Old Pontiac
Yesterday I saw an old Pontiac woody in a parking lot, it looked like it might have been from the 50s. It was not in very good shape, appearance-wise, but it obviously drives okay. I was wondering how old it was, it had a hood ornament that looks like, though I'm not sure it had the chrome wings. Any idea how long Pontiac continued with that particular hood ornament? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 19:09, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Does this page have the ornament you saw? It seems like Pontiac had moved on to using a jet fighter on the hood by 1955. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks like the hood ornament used in the late 1940s-early 1950s. See Pontiac Chieftain, especially the first generation pics.  Also Pontiac Star Chief, especially the first few years,.  That hood ornament looks like it went out of common use by the middle 50s, say 1955 or 1956.  The best match for a "woody" style wagon with that hood ornament is the Pontiac Streamliner station wagon, see the pic.  -- Jayron  32  19:21, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * yeah, that looks just like it. Thank you.  (Though the one I saw, like I said, was in really bad shape) The Mark of the Beast (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)