Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds/Archive 3

=Categories=

"Endemic" birds categories
Apparently there was a misunderstanding about recategorization&mdash;"Avifauna of" categories got renamed to "Endemic birds of", so that, for example, the Eurasian Collared-Dove is now in Category:Endemic birds of Southeastern United States! I asked User:Cyde to stop his bot from making the conversions (though I may not have been in time) and brought it up at WP:CFD, so you don't have to do that, dear reader. But maybe somebody from this project needs to keep an eye on this recategorization. And I'm not all that interested in categories :-) &mdash;JerryFriedman 05:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to delete "Fauna of [country]" categories
There's a proposal at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_8 to merge all 35 categories like "Fauna of Estonia", "Fauna of Spain", etc., to just "Fauna of Europe". This is a pilot to get rid of all geographical fauna and flora categories for countries and other regions smaller than continents, including "Birds of the Southeastern United States", "Birds of Kenya", etc., replacing them with lists. If you have an opinion on this, you might want to vote. &mdash;JerryFriedman 20:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Help needed
I was wondering if it would be better to create a sub Category:Birds of South-east Asia to categorize birds that are native to South-east Asia only, instead of lumping them into Category:Birds of Asia? Luffy487 07:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Go for it. My only question would be whether you include the Philippines and Wallacea in this cat, given their biogeographical distinctness from SE Asia. I'd be inclined to keep them separate. Sabine's Sunbird talk 08:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't Philippines a country in Southeast Asia? Luffy487 09:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely! But its something of a biogeographical special case with a decent number of endemics (including it's on family, the Rhabdornithidae), that would justify its own category in my opinion. I realise that there is something of a crusade on against category:Bird of country] going on, but at least islands with good numbers of endemic species justify a cat. Sabine's Sunbird talk 10:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As a "crusader", I have nothing against an Endemic birds of the Philippines category, and of course nothing against a List of birds of the Philippines article, which might include some remarks on the country's unique avifauna. &mdash;JerryFriedman 17:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice shield! Sabine's Sunbird talk 18:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Changing of Category:Fauna of country to Category:Birds of country
The amount of bird articles been created daily are increasing. Thus I was wondering if it would be a better idea to change the Category:Fauna of country to Category:Birds of country? For example: Category:Fauna of Indonesia into Category:Birds of Indonesia. By specifying the category as birds instead of fauna will help to avoid mixing up with Mammalia or Reptilia articles in the same category. And of course this only implies to Aves articles. Luffy487 14:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

= Page layout & formatting =

Bulbul
Someone has moved Bulbul to Bulbul (bird) because apparently there was singer by the same name from Azerbaijan. Given that almost every usage of Bulbul on Wikipedia is going to be for the bird, anyone want to move it back? Sabine's Sunbird talk 07:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I perfer as it is now. Right now Bulbul is a dab page, and we should not remove it. Luffy487 07:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Dab pages work when there are several well known meanings for a word. When there is one well known usage and one obscure one, the well known use occupies the main namespace and links are provided to other uses (example albatross or fulmar).Sabine's Sunbird talk 07:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

= Taxonomy, systematics & specific taxa =

Struthioniformes
I find the present setup (ratites = Strithioniformes) fairly untenable; it is not supported by current molecular and morphological phylogenies. Altogether, the page should be split, but there is need to collect many references first. These can be collected e.g. in my sandbox, either under "General" or "Ratites". Dysmorodrepanis 13:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Streak-headed Mannikin
I have created a stub for Streak-headed Mannikin Lonchura tristissima, lumping White-spotted Mannikin L. t. leucosticta in with it because of info in Coates (see ref). If anyone has better or more recent info that suggests the latter needs needs full species treatment, please let me know. Thanks. Maias 05:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

New pictures
Two new pictures that might inspire someone to write an article: Commons:Image:Syrigma sibilatrix.jpg and Commons:Image:Scarlet-headed Blackbird.jpg. I'm mentioning this at the r equ est of the photographer, Ken Erickson. Anyone have a South American book? &mdash;JerryFriedman 19:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I can do the heron one as I have the HBW that covers them. Give me a day or two. Sabine's Sunbird talk 20:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Who would have thought? The page on this species from Ridgely and Tudor is one of the few pages of that book visible at Google Book search.  So Scarlet-headed Blackbird is started.  &mdash;JerryFriedman 00:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Bird taxonomy in the news
Yikes. I assume you've seen the bit about news species of birds in North America based on barcoding. Here's the pdf oof the paper in Molecular Ecology Notes I wonder where the appropriate place to stick this is. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the pdf! I don't know what to make of this really. Low sample sizes (n=1; this is sometimes OK in paleontology, but only if there is no alternative), no specimen data (subspecies/provenance - where do all those Canada Geese come from? Captives? Is the parentage known?), failure to incorporate 2 years of methodological criticism, discussion, and improvement (see also Cladistics 20: 47–55 and ); I think I see a major debate about this one in the journals. By mid-2007, it might be possible to estimate this study's merits. As if Astraptes fulgerator, Preble's meadow jumping mouse, Gobius lagocephalus and the wrongly-calibrated molecular clocks we've been using in ornithology for nearly 10 years weren't enough.
 * This is all frustrating and a bit annoying. I wonder what the Cladistics and MPE crowd will make of this.
 * People will have read about it in the news and want to put it up on Wikipedia - and admitted, it would be better than no reference at all - but I'd advise against it. I've been following the barcoding debate for the last 15 months or so very closely and my impression is that this here paper is a prime candidate for being ripped to pieces. Whoever wants to do some mol-taxo referencing better check out Google Scholar and choose from the work of Jon Fjeldså. These are generally tried-and-true. Or maybe Michael Wink's papers - there is one rotten egg among them, but we already have it on WP (together with the rebuttal. Of course). Dysmorodrepanis 09:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * We don't have a article on genetic barcoding at all, so perhaps we should at least have that, outside the auspices of this project. Then if people want we can have a line that mentions this study in the appropriate articles if people want it without altering our taxonomy in a big way. Sabine's Sunbird talk 18:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Correction, we do. So, yeah, I agree that for the momement we need to keep this out of the taxonomy until at least some other scientists have commented. Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Another cracid ID request
See my comments under Image:Piping guan.jpg. I shall whip up a quick stub for Aburria, because the cracids are all messed up regarding redirects etc. Dysmorodrepanis 17:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC) = Other bird-related pages =

New Members
How do I join WikiProjectBirds? Teak the Kiwi 04:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing formal - add your username to the Participants section on the main project page, have a read through and you're in! Richard Barlow 11:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Kakapo FAR
Kakapo has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Project Userbox
A modest proposal: User:Aerobird/WP Birds Userbox

- Aerobird 21:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Gladly thunbs-up. Dysmorodrepanis 06:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Have changed icon width so that it fits with the other ToL userboxes. Rv if you disagree. Also, everyone - would it be OK if this were listed on Userboxes/WikiProjects? Dysmorodrepanis 16:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I' ll list it now. Hey jude, don&#39;t let me down 21:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Microformat
Please be aware of the proposed Species microformat, particularly in relation to taxoboxes. Comments welcome on the wiki at that link. Andy Mabbett 15:25, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Aviculture WikiProject proposal
See WikiProject Council/Proposals. The purpose of this project is to help increase the amount and quality of content related to aviculture on wikipedia, and to maintain and organise articles relating to the subject, eventually bringing as many as possible up to good- or featured-article status. I feel that is sufficiently different to WikiProject Birds (aspects of ornithology and biology) to need a separate project. Snowman 17:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would agree with this. It could also be argued that WP Birds could be split three ways into ornithology, birding and aviculture. Maias 23:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions for shared names?
I'm working on a page for the Rock Wren of New Zealand, which has exactly the same name as the Rock Wren of North America (even on the HBW website). I'm wary of using the name suggested on the New Zealand wren article (New Zealand Rock Wren) as I've never seen that name anywhere else. So, do we go for the clunky New Zealand Rock Wren or do we have Rock Wren (New Zealand)? (p.s. yes, I might finally be back) Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * We could use "South Island Wren". It's the name used in the Clements and Sibley & Monroe checklists and also used in the Birdlife species factsheet Tigershrike 13:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That would work... Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * HANZAB gives Fiordland Rock Wren as an alternative. Maias 03:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I went with South Island Wren and created redirects for the other names (as well as changing any links into Rock Wren that were refering to this species). A bit annoying for Kiwi birders though, since they all seem to refer to this species as the Rock Wren. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Hi! I am a new member of WikiProject Birds. Recently i am trying to categorize African estrildidae according to countries which they are native in. However, it was proposed to merge all of the subcategories into Category:Birds of Africa. I was wondering if any of the experts here have any idea to organize the category/ subcategories? See Categories for discussion, for discussion. Luffy487 04:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Subspecies taxobox example?
I was wondering if there is any subspecies taxobox example available? See Green-backed Twinspot, Solitary Tinamou and Star Finch, for examples. Luffy487 06:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Luffy. There is a subspecies taxobox at Bonin Nankeen Night Heron‎. Is this what you are looking for? Maias 11:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I was away for quite sometime. Well I am looking for taxobox which can provide more than one example of subspecies. Thanks by the way. Luffy487 08:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Archaeopteryx
Hi all,

Recently, the WikiProject Dinosaurs team has been working to improve Archaeopteryx. Since this article is partially under the purview of the Bird folks, I thought I'd stop by and drop an invite to you all to come help improve or refine the article in any way you can. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester  04:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Okarito Brown Kiwi
Do you think this article (Okarito Brown Kiwi) should be moved to Rowi, seeing as many sites refer to it that way? Teak the Kiwi 03:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Teak - if you want to be consistent with other current articles on NZ birds in Wikipedia you should stick with Okarito Brown, with a redirect from Rowi of course. Maias 04:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

New Corvid-Obscessed Member
Hi. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I just joined this WikiProject. I am obviously corvid-obscessed, and one of my long term goals on Wikipedia is to bring some of the corvid articles to featured article status. However, since I figure that'll take a long time, I think I'd better start small. What can I do to help out with this project?Corvus coronoides 18:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, mostly people do what they feel like, but you know, Mariana Crow is a redlink (meaning we don't have an article yet. Click the link to start the page). Why not start with it? There's info on the species here,, and a search on Google scholar might turn up some journal articles. Use an existing article like Jungle Crow to help you format and start...Sabine's Sunbird talk 20:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How's this? Corvus coronoides 21:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, and it would be helpful if someone could find a range map and photo of the bird as well. Australian Raven 21:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice one. I'll leave some comments on the talk page.Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Welcome Crow-man! I'm looking forward to being in the field soon til April, but if you do Banggai Crow, I'll have some of the more recent references lying around and would be honored to add them! Dysmorodrepanis 22:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the warm welcome, and the Banggai suggestion. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble getting enough information on them to write a full article.  Can you recommend any good sources, specifically for things such as behaviour, pictures without breaking copyrights, and a range map without breaking copyrights? Australian Raven 14:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)