Wikipedia talk:WikiProject European history/Archive 1

EU History
Hi, I'm currently working on a new EU History page. The current one is just a history of enlargement and although I am expanding its content, there are two problems still facing it. Firstly, it is all very political, mentions of things like terrorist attacks or other major events outside of the development of the EU's organisation are missing. Secondly there is no Europe-wide history page to organise that which happened outside the EU during this time.

I hope that the members of this project can help to rectify this, by ensuring that the developing new page has sufficient mentions or links to other major events. All comments and contributions are much appreciated. See: User:JLogan/DraftEUHistory -  J Logan t/c: 11:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: WikiProject Europe
I was noting down the related projects for WikiProject European Union and number of small European projects as I was going round. How do you guys feel about a parent "WIkiProject Europe" to link together as many European projects at the top (not merge, unless some fell the need to)? It could help discussion and cooperation between projects and possibly reduce overheads for the smaller ones. In addition for areas with no project of their own. Where a project has few members or is inactive, a common peer-assessment could help them move forward.

Ideas? For central discussion, see WIkiproject EU talk page 193.11.208.247 12:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject History
WikiProject History now has a European task force. I am considering merging this project with that task force if no one objects-- Phoenix 15 (Talk) 13:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I object to anything hasty, let's talk about the best way to do this first before deprecating this project.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 17:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, a complete merge is a bit much but this project is a little...remote and inactive. Turning this into WikiProject History task force might attract more members-- Phoenix 15 (Talk) 18:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * All you have to do is treat it like a task force, just make the task force page a redirect to the project, in the same way that Military History does things, with joint task forces with the geographic projects. Alternatively, you just treat it as a sub project.  There's no real difference, except the project already exists, has an established page, and has active members.  The project certainly does not seem "remote" by which I think you mean it deals with a very specific topic.  European history is a very broad topic.  And I don't see it as being particularly inactive.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the deprecation tags, there is no consensus.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm okay with the merger &mdash; doesn't affect me much either way, I just think it's important to have a group for doing that sort of thing. &mdash;Ryan McDaniel 20:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger
Clearly there should be a relationship between the WikiProject_History and this Project. This project should probably merge with Project_History/European_task_force. But the information on this Project page should be largely preserved in the result rather than deprecating this project. The larger question is whether this should ultimately be a project or a task force. Understanding the analogy to WP:MILHIST, that had a somewhat different evolution. This is a bit more forced. There is a current proposal for a WikiProject US History and an existing and active WikiProject_Australian_history, as well as several regional and country specific history projects with less to no activity. The Project History page seems to indicate an intent to do this same thing to every region. If so, a much broader discussion is in order. One alternative would be to have the Task force page redirect to here. Another would be to simply list this as a subproject of the Project History and treat this more like the WikiProject Tree of life where there are many levels of sub projects which take some of their guidelines from higher level projects and do other, more topic specific things, independently. Whether a task force or a project, this project's parentage is really shared between the embryonic History project and WikiProject Europe. --Doug.(talk • contribs) 20:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Based on discussion at the Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject History, geographic task forces appear to have been abandoned for the time being and this proposal seems to no longer have relevance.  That project seems to be pursuing a formal parent/child relationship with other history projects rather than trying to incorporate them into the overall parent as task forces.  Therefore, I'm removing the merge tags.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 15:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

collaboration of the history projects
Hi, I'm newly appointed coordinator of the WikiProject History. I was coordinator of the WikiProject Military History before. My scope is to improve the cooperation among the different history projects andf use the synergy of a common infrastructure to improve article quality. One idea would be to merge small project into a larger wikiproject history with a common infrastructure and the small projects continuing independently as task forces of this project. What are your suggestions? Greetings Wandalstouring 15:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Generally agreed, though discussion in each instance is most necessary.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 20:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I think the scope of WP:HIST is so broad as to make it a mite unwieldy ... I think EuroHist is at the right level that, if we breathe some life into it, we'd be more effective unconsolidated. Of course, some coordination and cooperation between the projects would be wonderful, but I don't think there's a great benefit to being absorbed. - Revolving Bugbear  (formerly Che Nuevara) 23:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Afterthought -- or were you talking about merging smaller projects into this one, as with the suggestion below re: Polish history? If so, I wholeheartedly agree and think that's exactly what this project needs. - Revolving Bugbear Revolving Bugbear  (formerly Che Nuevara) 23:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it was just a general question. Merging this one into History was sort of canned, at least for a while, after an aborted attempt to simply deprecate it and create a task force prior to Wandalstouring becoming involved.  I think the question here is more "What are our thoughts on how we might all cooperate".  Though not being the one asking I'm not sure.  As the one who jumped up and down and yelled when the deprecation was attempted, and I wasn't even a member yet, I definitely agree with you.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 17:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I looked around and the same message appears to have been posted on other more active projects.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 23:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merger with WikiProject History of Poland
The above Project is currently inactive. I believe it would make sense to merge that project into this one. If that would mean that there might be established a "History of Poland" task force of this project, I think that might be reasonable and acceptable. John Carter 14:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Subject to hearing something from a participant in WikiProject History of Poland that it is not actually inactive, I would concur. I take it the actual procedure you propose would be to move the project page to WikiProject European history/Task Force Poland or something of that nature, yes?  In the next couple of days I'll try to get to notifying some of the members of that project, if you haven't already, and also commenting at WikiProject Poland as it should probably be a joint task force.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 15:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * On further review, there is no WikiProject Poland, it's just a redirect to Portal:Poland.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 16:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The page of the portal it links to is the Portal:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board. I'm told by those who've been around longer that such notice boards were the precursors to the existing WikiProjects. I also see that that page has it's own assessment statistics page, which probably means that they decided to not create a separate WikiProject per se and just keep everything on the existing notice board page. It can probably be seen as being a project for these purposes though. It'd help if they had a sidebar to permit easier linking, though. Oh well. John Carter 16:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As a member I attest it is inactive. How would this merger be accomplished? I'd oppose redirecting, as it has some still-useful tools and/or historical discussions of interest, and will one day be revived (once we get more editors interested in Polish history). PS. Due to low levels of activity on various projects Poland-related editors are primarily centered around WP:PWNB, indeed.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What would basically happen is that the page would be moved to a subpage of this project, probably WikiProject European history/Polish history task force or something similar, and that the EH project's banner would probably provide separate assessment in time for the work group, when the banner gets worked on. John Carter 18:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, and because in form it would be a move, rather than a merger, the talk would just come right along with it and it would have no affect on page histories, just page locations. The real value is in the direct coordination by a more active project and the lack of any impression by members of this project that Poland was taken care of by its own project and could be ignored, in other words, the Poland pages would still get taken care of, even if no members of the Poland task force were around.  Additionally, when a project is inactive, it's often because of too small a scope, this project would involve editors with an interest in the history various parts of Europe, including Poland, (and some would undoubtedly be interested in Europe as a whole) thereby drawing from a larger base of potential editors.  By having a task force, those who wanted to specialize in just Poland would still have a place to discuss and coordinate Polish history without so much "noise" but those who wanted to generalize would be able to see more easily what was going on in Poland as well.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 06:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Can we do this and add a parameter to our banner for the task force? Like a "|Poland = yes" parameter? Could such a parameter add be used in concert with WikiProject Eastern Europe as well?--Doug.(talk • contribs) 18:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There has been only one comment from the Polish History Project and it was not what I would call an objection. Considering the inactive status of that project, I don't think there is a consensus issue. Let's just do this. John's proposed title: WikiProject European history/Polish history task force is long, but it's consistent with the way WP:MILHIST names their task forces. What do you say?--Doug.(talk • contribs) 02:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think WikiProject European history/Polish task force would be a better name. The fact that the project if European history obviously means it's about history and it would be easier to find--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 18:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, my only concern being that if it were to become a joint task force with a geographic or country project the name could become ambiguous.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. We wouldn't want to give the impression that we were creating a task force/work group for a country, but rather for the history of the country, and that would seem to require the inclusion of the word "history" in the name. -- John Carter (talk) 21:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose, do it then, include the "history"--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 21:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ at least the mechanics of the move have been completed, redirects checked, etc, got rid of the merge tags. Now we need to restructure the task force page so it doesn't reference itself as a project.  How do we deal with members of the old project/new TF who aren't members of the main project?  Also, I have not updated any lists, such as at WP:COUNCIL yet.  I will make sure this change is also noted at WikiProject Eastern Europe.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 05:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So, should I add WP:EH to the WP:HIST banner or are we going to have our own? I can make one if it's the latter. Either way, we'll need to start assessing some articles--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 14:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Project Overhall

 * Welcome and thanks for joining. I'm trying to revamp the project and work out the ins and outs of collaboration with Wikipedia:WikiProject History. I'm also working on some of the Romanian and Transylvanian articles and Portal:Transylvania. Unfortunately, I've found that many if not all of the other members listed are inactive, at least with respect to the project. Please feel more than welcome to mark up the Project page with what you see is needed and let me know what you think we can do to further the project. Thanks again.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 03:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks on both counts.

I would love to help out with a little revamping. I'd be interested in hearing what your potential plans / goals are.

Cheers! - Revolving Bugbear  (formerly Che Nuevara) 17:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You thought of running for the post of coordinator there by any chance? I think you would probably be qualified. John Carter 18:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I apologize for my ambiguousness -- I was referring to a comment on my talk page about Wikiproject European History. I'm not aware of WP:EH having a coordination scheme, but maybe implementing one would be a good idea. - Revolving Bugbear 19:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, meant the coordinator for the History project, not the European history project. John Carter 19:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

What would you think about doing a serious overhaul of WP:EH to try and get the project running a little more coherently? I've started to outline some potential topics of discussion here. Cheers! - Revolving Bugbear  19:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This discussion involves at least three people and relates to Planning for this project, so I've moved it here. What about moving your sandbox work to WikiProject European history/Strategy or "/Overhall" or something like that for discussion/cooperative work? --Doug.(talk • contribs) 20:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I was planning on doing so as soon as I was sure there was interest in doing this. Given your suggestion, I assume there is and will move it now. - Revolving Bugbear  21:25, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The question about there being a EuroHist portal; I think there should be--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 18:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to build one as well. Before that, though, we should get to some assessing / improving, I think. - Revolving Bugbear  15:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Historical Regions
Just to throw this into the mix, there are historical regions like Transylvania (this particular one has several separate articles devoted to it's history and a portal.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This was just a comment with respect to our "map" of the topic and related projects and in particular the questions posed at WikiProject_European_history/Strategy.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 12:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposal
I've made a proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 23:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)