Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Brazil task force

Tag?
Does this project have a tag, i.e., football=yes? I'd use that instead of sports=yes due to the sheer number of articles for football players. Perhaps they should have their own task force/tag to separate them from the Sports Task Force. Prburley (talk) 11:40, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The template for  has a number of  –style tags and I have submitted the code to the sandbox to activate   for the Brazilian Football Task Force, but I am still waiting for User:Redrose64 or another template editor to implement those changes. For , there is currently only  , with the idea being that editors who are interested in a sport or sports other than football can work on all of those articles. Obviously futebol brasileiro totally dominates the sports category, but the alternative of creating dozens of tiny sport-specific task forces seemed like a poor option… at least until the whole WikiProject is revived and cleaned up a bit more. We could have set it up to be mutually exclusive, but I would rather not retag the thousands of articles that are already marked   at this point. Plus that opens up a whole philosophical discussion about why we would have a sports task force that doesn’t include the biggest sport in the country, etc. In the meantime, there are some canned searches in the Related WikiProjects section of the Sports in Brazil task force page if you are interested in finding articles at the intersection of Brazil + other (non-football) sports. giso6150 (talk) 17:57, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * My point is: I'm interested in not seeing/finding them. :) Thanks for all the work you do!!! Prburley (talk)
 * Likewise! It would be great if the filtering, sorting, faceting, etc. were more robust. You should really explore the Tool Labs site if this stuff interests you (and I know it does, as a fellow librarian). There are some pretty cool projects out there. giso6150 (talk) 22:57, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Please Voice Your Support
This task force was started too quickly for some veteran members of the WikiProject and there is concern that there hasn’t been enough support or discussion. Please take a moment to go to the main talk page and say that you agree that 1.) the template should be updated to include the   tag and 2.) that you are just generally interested in contributing to this task force. As absurd as it seems, we need to convince some key people that there is interest in Brazilian football. giso6150 (talk) 05:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

This page
Just want to let the page creator know that this looks like a very good start for this task force. I know you've taken a lot of heat for all this (I know how warm this can get), and I sincerely hope that you garner a consensus of involved editors/participants for the changes you want to make. Joys! – Paine 15:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Flamengo and the Copa União 1987
There has been edit warring on the Flamengo page concerning the controversial title at the 1987 Copa União. Both articles could use a little help, but the Flamengo article is in especially poor shape. Anyone who can help clean this up should do what they can. giso6150 (talk) 02:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

The problem
It is widely known that large numbers of Brazilian footballers are known by one name, often just their first name or a their first name plus a nickname. These same individuals often have long, complex full names which are difficult to alphabetize. Many single name players can be found in Wikipedia articles by their first name (e.g., Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro redirects to Cristiano Ronaldo, since that is what he is known as). This seems like the best practice, even for—or perhaps especially for—players who are less widely-known.

Unlike Cristiano Ronaldo, however, most of these players have articles only at their full name. Often this fact makes it harder to find information about them, rather than making it more precise (which was the intention of these page authors, no doubt). That would be all well and good if there were more thorough disambiguation pages for each of these nicknames.

Examples
A web search just now [ ] yielded 16 footballers known simply as Paulinho: The above list does not include the similarly named: Paulinho Piracicaba, Paulinho Le Petit, Paulinho Criciúma, Paulinho Cascavel, Paulinho Kobayashi or Paulinho Santos. The current disambiguation page for Paulinho has only a subset of the names above, along with four more that didn’t show up in my crude search.
 * José Paulo Bezerra Maciel Júnior — the most famous, presumably, since his page redirects to Paulinho (footballer)
 * Paulo Sérgio Betanin
 * Paulo Sérgio Mota
 * Paulo José de Oliveira
 * Paulo Roberto Sobrinho
 * Paulo Dinarte Gouveia Pestana
 * Paulo Luiz Beraldo Santos
 * João Paulo Dias Fernandes
 * Paulo Henrique Soares dos Santos
 * Paulo Roberto Gonzaga
 * Paulo Roberto Moccelin
 * Paulo Cesar Elias
 * Paulo Modesto da Silva Júnior
 * Paulo Victor de Menezes Melo
 * Paulo Cesar Rodrigues Lima
 * Paulo Almeida Ribeiro

Furthermore, there are many players who are listed by their nickname first, even when there are multiples:
 * Abuda (footballer, born 1986)
 * Abuda (footballer, born 1989)

In this example, I was not able to find any discussion on either article’s Talk page that pointed to a standard about this naming structure. I assume that someone, somewhere made a decision based on precedent. I’d like to find a more extreme case that would match the complexity of the Paulinho example above. It would be nice to document some of these decisions for the WikiProject Brazil Sports Task Force.

Next steps
Ideally, we could work together to come up with some agreement about standard ways:
 * to name these (and similar) pages,
 * to create pages under the nickname, or
 * to decide when to use the full name of these players instead, and
 * what information to include on the disambiguation pages, rather than in the title of the article.

Creating a category for Brazilian footballer disambiguation pages might be a good first step, so that we have some way of keeping track of which common names have been disambiguated and which ones still need to be worked on. I’m not sure what the protocol for creating such a specific category would be or whether there might be a preferred way to mark our progress that doesn’t require a category.

No one would look for the singer Cher under the name Cherilyn Sarkisian, although there is a redirect page at her birth name, just in case some one from elementary school decides to look her up, but can’t remember her stage name for some reason. I haven’t checked to verify this, but I don’t think that there are 15 additional Chers. This seems to be a unique problem to Brazilian footballers, but it’s one that’s well worth solving! —giso6150 (talk) 03:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I would've thought the below covers the options ranked in order of preference. A couple of the Paulinhos would appear to need to be disambiguated by month of birth. Using full names is pretty unhelpful when most of the footballers are simply known by one or two names.
 * 1 Paulinho - common name
 * 2 Paulinho Criciúma - common name with secondary nickname
 * 3 Paulinho (footballer) or Paulinho (Brazilian footballer) - commonname with disambiguation by occupation and nationality
 * 4 Paulinho (footballer, born 1986) or Paulinho (Brazilian footballer, born 1986) - common name with disambiguation by occupation and year of birth
 * 5 Paulinho (footballer, born April 1986) or Paulinho (Brazilian footballer, born April 1986) - common name with disambiguation by occupation and month of birth
 * Hack (talk) 04:24, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Football in Brazil task force
I created the page for a new Football in Brazil task force as part of WikiProject Football. The Football in Brazil task force is long overdue. There has been lots of interest in the past but no one has taken this step of actually setting it up. Many articles have already been tagged with. giso6150 (talk) 13:45, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Football task force update
I started a Brazil task force page in WikiProject Football but did it too quickly for some veteran members of that WikiProject. Now there is concern that there hasn’t been enough support or discussion. Please take a moment to go to the main talk page and say whether you agree that 1.) the template should be updated to include the   tag and 2.) whether you are generally interested in contributing to that task force. As absurd as it seems, we need to convince some key people that there is interest in Brazilian football. giso6150 (talk) 05:08, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Moved conversations, 17 September 2015
The two sections above (Redirect and Disambiguation Project for Brazilian Footballers and Football in Brazil task force) were moved from the WikiProject Brazil/Sports in Brazil task force talk page. giso6150 (talk) 18:32, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Discussion regarding state league stats at WT:FOOTBALL
Please see this discussion. Hack (talk) 01:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Arena Corinthians
Arena Corinthians has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)