Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mountains/Archive 4

Searching the USGS GNIS
This may be old news, but it came as a surprise to me. When searching the USGS database for summits named 'Mount Foo', I've been putting " " in the Feature Name box, figuring I'd get all the features with some variation of the name: "Foo Mountain", "Little Foo", "Mount Foo", "Old Foo", etc. This turns out not to be the case, at least currently:


 * However, when this advanced name search is combined with another variable, such as State, it seems to slow the query. So as a temporary measure, any query that includes both name and another variable has been reverted to the old wild card search. That is, it assumes a query of " ," which translates as the name with anything following it.


 * In the case below, and others like it, the query will not return a value if the first word in the name is not included. That is why a name query alone on Monroe will return Mount Monroe. However, a query on Monroe and the State will not return Mount Monroe. [email from a guy at usgs.gov]

So searching for " " will turn up all features of which either the established name or a variant name begin with "foo ", but it won't pick up any "Mount Foo"s without such a variant name. For that you have to search for the exact name, " ". —wwoods 19:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This has since been changed, so never mind. —wwoods 15:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Missing topics
I have a list of missing topics that includes a section about mountains. I've tried to include only topics that do not have a Wikipedia article but I'd appreciate if anyone could have a look at the list. - Skysmith 11:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Shiprock editing controversy
Hi all---I am involved in some back-and-forth on Shiprock (see Talk:Shiprock) which might turn into an edit war. So far it's just been me and one other editor, and I feel that other people should see what the issues are and contribute their two cents. So if anyone is interested, take a look; particularly look at the edit history over the last couple of months. Thanks -- Spireguy 15:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Mount Carlisle
I have expanded this article, please see if it looks any better. --sunstar nettalk 10:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely better. I have added the project's infobox to get rid of that old style hard coded infobox. RedWolf 07:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Backpacking
Hello,
 * As part of the Mountians WikiProject, You all may be interested in the newly formed WikiProject Backpacking, an effort to increase the quality of Backpacking related articles and media on Wikipedia. I hope that we may work together with other closely related WikiProjects (this one included) to make camping and packing articles the best they can be!
 * Regards,
 * -Leif902 13:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Infobox and Userbox
Hi folks, I decided to be bold and alter the look of the project page somewhat. I added the Template:Infobox WikiProject and I've also created a userbox for the project.

I hope these changes are OK with everyone. Thanks. --Seattle Skier 22:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice userbox, cheers. Ericoides 19:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Lists
Both the WikiProject Mountains/List of mountains and the List of mountains by elevation have information that should also be in the List of mountains but isn't. Since the List of Mountains is in wikinamespace, we should be adding to it as we do to the other lists once articles are written. It might even make sense to merge the List of mountains into the List of mountains by elevation.--MONGO 06:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Deprecated mtnbox templates on TFD
The old mtnbox templates have been listed on TFD as of March 25. I don't have any problem with these being deleted but if you wish to comment, see the TFD listing. RedWolf 15:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

User of unit display templates
The project page suggests that Category:Unit display templates such as Unit m and Unit ft should be used. Would it be better to suggest using a generic template such as Convert? See Category talk:Unit display -- Patleahy 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize they were obsolete. I'm happy with recommending Convert --- whatever is considered better by general WP usage. hike395 02:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It turns out these are not obsolete. Feel free to continue using them. -- Patleahy 22:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Our disambiguation pages violate WP:MOSDAB
User:Interiot has pointed out that our disambiguation page style (e.g, Granite Peak) violates the Manual of Style for disambiguation pages, which directs dab pages to have no extra content, and no external links.

What should we do? I like all of the extra content in the table: I find it useful. hike395 12:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

We went through this in WikiProject Ships last year. We dealt with the objection by changing the name from disambiguation page to ship index page. Presumably something similar can be done here.

In the absence of actual Wikipedia articles, the info in the table gives someone making an article a headstart, without having to run the search on GNIS again. And the external links allow you to quickly determine that, e.g. the three mountains called "Granite Peak (Washoe County, Nevada)" are actually different peaks. (Oops.) —wwoods 20:47, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * WPS talk: Ship index pages
 * MoSDab talk: Disambiguating United States Navy ships
 * MoSDab talk: Please don't make a mess of articles in the name of MoS:DP
 * MoSDab talk: Some proposed wording for MoS:DP
 * MoSDab talk: Ship index pages


 * We can do something analogous: we can make a mountainindex, and just take the pages out of the disambig category. I'll start on it. hike395 05:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Later --- I've added mountainindex to all mountain disambig articles I could find. This template puts the articles into Category:Disambiguation lists of mountains. I've found that some articles are more than just a list of mountains --- the disambiguate towns, etc. (See, e.g., Mount Wilson) When this happens, I've split out the list into its own article, titled "List of peaks named XXXXX", keeping XXXXX as a main disambiguation page. This will keep the disambiguationists happy. I'll put these ideas into the WikiProject guidelines (assuming no one objects).


 * Another thing I've noticed is how the style of all of the lists have drifted around. We need to make a template for these lists, I think.. I'll try to do so, but I am not a template expert. Oh, and all of the GNIS links are broken: the USGS doesn't maintain the old style links any more.hike395 21:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Good work. And thanks for figuring out the new way to link to GNIS pages. I've copied the code from Mountain index row in gnis and gnis2.
 * —wwoods 18:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There is an active discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) that would affect the style of the mountain index pages. I encourage Mountain participants to participate in the discussion (if they so desire). Thanks! hike395 23:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

New template for mountain index pages
Just made a new template Mountain index row. I tried it out at Brown Peak. What do people think? hike395 15:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems specific to US or Canadian mountains, if it is, that should possibly be reflected in the template name. --Berland 06:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been trying to add a "Country" field or something similar, to make it truly global. I've been having problems with getting that to work: any help is appreciated. hike395 23:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Help! Mountain index row broken when I add Country column
I've been trying to make Mountain index row template be global, by including a Country field. But, this breaks the template: it produces a spurious HTML line break when I add it. I've tried to rename the field, and reorder the columns, to no avail. Is there a template expert in the house? Can someone help out? Thanks! hike395 14:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Mountain categories
What do people think about the listing of peaks by category? It would be good to have a consistent standard, as at present they list according to different systems; compare, for example, Mountains of Italy with Mountains of Switzerland. In the Italian list there is a different, and in my opinion rather messy, way of listing the peaks alphabetically. (eg Monte Disgrazia under 'D', not 'M'.) Ericoides 16:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The ordering is based on the established convention that mountains not be alphabetized on "Mount" (or Monte). RedWolf 04:03, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Should there be a convention surrounding 'Piz' then? Ericoides 07:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, what's a "Piz"? I don't know Swiss German. hike395 15:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It means 'peak' (so is equivalent to 'Monte'). Ericoides 06:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Units in infobox
Currently, the description of the infobox says it should include, ''elevation, in both metres and feet. Metres should be listed first except for mountains in the United States, where feet is given first. The international spelling of metres should be used for non-USA mountains (versus the American spelling "meter").''

Obviously both units should be given, and in the article, the people reading about a US mountain will likely be more comfortable with English than metric units, but do we need a special order in the infobox for US mountains? —wwoods 15:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This was quite a controversy a couple of years ago, as I recall --- there were strong opinions on both sides. Having all of the units expressed in the country of origin was the Solomonic comprise we came up with. I think it is even in the global Manual of Style. I would prefer to not reopen the controversy. hike395 16:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Fairway Rock
Fairway Rock (disambiguation) is currently on the list for disambig-cleanup, but I think it would be ill-served to strip everything out (no articles to disambiguate) and turn it in to a redirect. On the other hand, it is not exclusively mountains. Could it fall under this project's aegis anyway? -- JHunterJ 23:10, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Scope of Project
Although I am not a member of this project, I have done some work on mountain articles in British Columbia. I have been adding the mountain project template to any article I come across that relates to a named mountain. I have also been adding it to articles about mountain ranges, lists of mountains, etc. Examples are Tagish Highland, Omineca Mountains, Hazelton Mountains, Stikine Ranges, Interior Plateau, Tuya Range, Alsek Ranges, and more. I have not put it on Chilkoot Pass. Should it go there? Although these seem useful to me, as I am not active in the project, I thought I should ask whether I am adding articles that should not be listed here. -- KenWalker | Talk 18:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As well, I am wondering whether to add the Mountain template to articles that already have the Volcano template like Franklin Glacier Volcano?-- KenWalker | Talk 07:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Finding coordinates of peaks
Is there an easy way to do this? I'm looking for the coordinates of Mount Union's peak in Arizona for the geobox of the Bradshaw Mountains. Murderbike 18:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For a location within the United States, check the USGS' database http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/ . Or try http://peakbagger.com/search.aspx, or http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/ . Which got me:


 * http://peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=4041
 * http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/153689/mount-union.html
 * —wwoods 21:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * —wwoods 21:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For US locations you can also use Topozone, which has the advantage of getting you a map to do a reality check. Also, for peaks with large topographic prominence anywhere in the world, you can look at peaklist.org. -- Spireguy 03:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Both the GNIS and peakbagger have links to topozone, and yes, it's good to check that your at the feature you want.
 * —wwoods 16:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks folks! Murderbike 05:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If using topozone, the Quads automatically go to NAD27 and I have found that NAD83/WGS84 is more accurate. The parameter for making that adjustment needs to be done manually everytime you load Topozone and the box to do so is in the lower left of the website in a drop down box.--MONGO 05:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pyreneean mountain passes
I have been adding bits to Tour de France pages, and was surprised how few articles there are on the mountain passes, especially in the Pyrenees. I'll quite happily start creating articles about some of the climbs to be used in this year's tour, but before I do so can I briefly comment on the Template:Infobox Mountain Pass that's currently in use. If you compare the template on Col d'Aubisque with its French equivalent, I hope you'll agree that the French one is far more informative. Would there be any objection to me creating an improved template based on the French one? Daemonic Kangaroo 12:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Latest Female Climbers
Just came across the timeline of the climbing of Mount Everest page, and noticed that the three Filipino women is missing from the list. Could somebody please add it? -chris^_^ 14:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ANYBODY???!!! -chris^_^ 12:11, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not do it yourself? hike395 15:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)