Talk:2024 IndyCar Series

Palou/McLaren drama

I feel we should have a section about the silly season drama between Alex Palou and McLaren, similar to what I did last year about the Palou/Ganassi/McLaren love triangle. I can do it up when I have more time or someone else can please feel free, but I'll start this here in case there is any opposition before I start. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  14:55, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Seeing as there is again going to be some legal drama, too, I think this definitely merits a section in the article, yes H4MCHTR (talk) 05:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Palou Ganassi?

Would this be sufficient to add Palou to Ganassi under the confirmed entries table?

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/chip-ganassi-alex-palou-our-car-in-2024/10515949/ 2607:FB91:BD3B:4896:6037:86E6:1C54:733C (talk) 22:52, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Race names in tables

Please see WP:AOW Standards - For simplicity reasons, the page titles have been established/adjusted to include only the primary title sponsor, and not any additional/optional "presenting sponsors."

Should we not consider applying this same standard to our schedule and results tables? Do we really need Chevrolet Detroit Grand Prix presented by Lear, when we can simply say Detroit Grand Prix? RegalZ8790 (talk) 22:33, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

I partly disagree here; the table in the season articles should state the full race names. However, I do think we can remove unsourced presenting sponsors that aren't confirmed to be returning for 2024, such as the ones for Iowa. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  17:39, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed secondary, presenting sponsors, leaving main sponsors. I agree that it isn't unreasonable to keep them. RegalZ8790 (talk) 23:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Come on

Will anyone please publish this draft into an article? There's not major information missing. 200.58.135.162 (talk) 14:23, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree that submitting to a backlogged AfC was not the greatest idea. We already have 2024 Indy NXT in mainspace. I am willing to BOLDLY move to mainspace if there is consensus here. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  14:54, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I was the one submitting the AfC and am also the creator of 2024 Indy NXT. I was simply not aware there was a different way to the usual AfC process, I am absolutely in favor of moving the article into mainspace. H4MCHTR (talk) 15:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  15:38, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm In favor of that. Migiditch (talk) 20:55, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Romain Grosjean Contract Dispute with Andretti Global

Are we going to potentially add something similar to the 2023 article, when Palou sued Ganassi and there was a subcontent titled "Alex Palou Contract Dispute" into the 2024 one as Grosjean has just pursued legal action against Michael Andretti and Andretti Autosport/Global.

Source: https://racer.com/2023/10/04/grosjean-enters-arbitration-with-andretti/ Migiditch (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to have gotten the amount of coverage that Palou has, so I'd say it'd be WP:UNDUE to expand on this beyond the blurb we have at this time. Things can always change. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  03:45, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Dale Coyne 2024 entry

Can we show this entry. Not with HMD. The split between these two parties can also be recorded. Seppefan (talk) 08:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

@Seppefan: Is there a source confirming that they will be on the grid in 2024? This is a team that traditionally confirms their plans very late into the offseason. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  15:40, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Agree. RACER magazine have mentioned that HMD are not returning to Coyne with their joint entry now that Malukas has joined McLaren but no announcement. I figured that putting Coyne as an entrant with no driver names was valid. Maybe wrong. Seppefan (talk) 15:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Like with Foyt. Seppefan (talk) 15:44, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

We can confirm Foyt through having Benjamin Pedersen under contract; who probably should be reinstated into the table, as I think it's only the cited RACER article casting any doubt on that. We don't typically have those gossip pieces by Pruett (or Miller before him) as sources unless they have on-the-record quotes from relevant parties.

Regardless, there's also confirmation of Foyt through the Penske alliance announced late into the 2023 season. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  15:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes Penske tie up proves validity. Thanks. Seppefan (talk) 16:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

@Seppefan: I forgot to mention this point, but it's okay to mention the report of HMD breaking with Coyne as a blurb, as it would fall under the "Team changes" subsection. I've also been meaning to find a report covering Malukas' announcement that he was leaving Coyne, but just haven't gotten around to it. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  16:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Hiya. Did you see Mitch Davis has been hired to manage Dale Coyne indycar team. Seppefan (talk) 16:13, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

I've just read the article on RACER now. Doesn't seem to confirm what teams he will be managing. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  16:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Quite” Dale Coyne Racing is delighted to welcome back Championship and Indianapolis 500 winning, renowned Team Manager Mitch Davis to lead its team as it enters its 41st season of NTT INDYCAR SERIES competition unquote.

autoracing1 2A00:23CC:B71D:3B01:EC9B:1CDD:986C:7185 (talk) 17:01, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

That part of the quote wasn't corroborated in the RACER article.[1] It still doesn't confirm any specific entries. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  14:58, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with Racer magazine. Coyne announced Davis to lead the team in its 41st Indycar season. That’s 2024. The drivers have not been announced but the team will be on the grid. Seppefan (talk) 15:10, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Coyne testing Enzo Fittipaldi. For INDYCAR 2024 season. 2A00:23CC:B71D:3B01:EDC8:CAD6:DE11:2116 (talk) 08:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Quote. We’re talking to all the usual suspects, and there’s some surprises,” Coyne told RACER. “So watch this space, but yeah, we’re talking to Sting Ray. We’d love to have him back again. Devlin’s talking to us, so you don’t know what could happen there. And Danial Frost is in the game, too. When we tested him at Sebring about a year ago, he was really quick. We have a lot of time for Danial.”unquote.

PLEASE ADD COYNE TO THE ENTRANTS TO MAKE THE ENTRY LIST ACCURATE THANK YOU Seppefan (talk) 21:06, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL, ALSO THERE'S NO RUSH. Also, if we want to get real technical, "41st IndyCar Season" does not necessarily mean "2024" and would be original research to conclude that from just this press release and whatever sources have corroborated that line from this news cycle. Testing a driver and having contract negotiations with every other free agent on the market is similarly not a confirmation of a 2024 season program. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  03:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I give up! Anybody looking at the page is not seeing the complete picture but you know best. Seppefan (talk) 05:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or anything. The full picture as of right now, is that DCR, a team with a history of confirming entries very late, has not yet confirmed any 2024 entries, despite putting themselves in the news a lot recently. We can add to the full picture with additions to the silly season notes in Team Changes. Like I said, I haven't gotten around to it, like I still haen't gotten around to doing a real paragrph on the Palou situation. My work life is very busy right now, and I'm just getting a 3-day weekend (first time getting more than a day off in a row in months) now, but it's also my birthday Monday so I'll be spending a lot of time hitting the bong and drinking Patron (whuich reminds me that I also have expanding Ed Brown (racing driver) on my to-do list!).

The offseason is long, my friend. We have plenty of time and plenty of other editors that can help out. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  06:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Totally understand. It’s voluntary too so thank you for all your endeavours. I don’t agree however that’s my problem! Happy birthday too. Mine tomorrow !! Seppefan (talk) 07:03, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Nice! Happy birthday to you, too! ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  15:11, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Rassmusen

@5.18.99.154, 2a01:e0a:958:7200:d1a7:5113:6a40:f282, and Thecatwhogotthemilk: Rassmusen is confirmed in the cited references to appear in a third Carpenter entry for the Indy 500. This necessitates expanding the table by an extra row to accompany this. Another way of saying this is that Ed Carpenter Racing has confirmed to run three entries this season, even though one of those entries has yet to have a number announced and is only signed up for one race, and uses a driver who otherwise races for another entry on the team. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  18:44, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Schedule - table icons

Made the change to split the table icon into Oval, Road and Street courses to match the official Indycar schedule. Indycar officially makes a distinction between road and street courses so it's appropriate that the Wikipedia page does as well Offical source: https://www.indycar.com/-/media/Files/Current-Schedule.pdf 31.208.187.28 (talk) 11:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC) 31.208.187.28 (talk) 11:24, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

There was a discussion last year about this topic, you can read up on it here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport/Archive 25#IndyCar schedule tables 2

As there was no clear consensus last time, you'd need to reopen a discussion about this before just making the change. H4MCHTR (talk) 11:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Thermal Club on the entry list

Not sure how we should mark it. I like it as is but I wonder if there is a better way to do it Daniel Doel (talk) 16:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, I just see a small error with Rassmusen. The way it's written implies he's racing in a second NC race after round 4. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  17:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Yep, that's a fair comment! Rounds 1 to 4 does include Thermal to be fair. Thank you. Daniel Doel (talk) 17:51, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney and Daniel Doel: Should we rethink this? Coyne's lineup disposition means the #18 will have had Harvey for the first 4 points-scoring rounds (1–4) and Siegel for Thermal (NC). Anyone seeing the table might interpret that the #20 didn't go to Thermal, and we shouldn't expect readers to scroll all the way down to the standings to double check.

Maybe put "1, NC, 2–4, 6–9, 12, 14" for Rasmussen? It's long but clearer. MSport1005 (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

It's a tricky one, I think either one works, but the "1, NC, 2–4, 6–9, 12, 14" listing for Rasmussen clears up more than the alternative. Daniel Doel (talk) 00:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Non-points Race in Points Table

Including the results of a non-points race in the championship points standings table has not been the convention. The Thermal race should be placed outside of the points standings as was done for the last non-championship race, or should be removed entirely. This is also how the Marlboro Challenges were handled until they were recently changed without discussion.

Inclusion of such races is non-intuitive. Races that fall out of the championship points standings have no business being included in a table of those standings.

See no issues with Thermal's inclusion in the Results table. RegalZ8790 (talk) 19:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@RegalZ8790 The last non-championship race was in 2008, and it was included in the normal standings. All other single-seater championships with NC races handle it exactly the same, for example F4 UAE and F4 SEA. H4MCHTR (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

It is not included in the normal standings. It is listed outside of the standings.

I do not see how the convention of a junior championship that is not part of the IndyCar ladder as being relevant to this discussion. The convention in IndyCar has been to not include the results of non-points awarding races in the results tables. RegalZ8790 (talk) 19:34, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@RegalZ8790 But the 2008 race is still in the table, you're seemingly calling for the results to be removed entirely.

I would not be against moving Thermal's column behind the points tally if that satisifes you, but in my opinion the two dark grey columns to each side are enough to make a distinction. Maybe we can add a footnote too, like the 2008 race had. H4MCHTR (talk) 19:38, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

You are correct, and I wasn't fully clear! I am advocating for the 2008 format.

I feel moving NC results beyond the points tally is a suitable compromise allowing the finishing order to remain visible. I feel a footnote would be useful regardless of where/whether the NC results are included. RegalZ8790 (talk) 20:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I think it presentationally looks bad having it among the championship races, especially with all those DNQs jumping out at us. I don't think its clear enough for a newcomer to the championship when looking at the standings, especially as non-championship races haven't been a common thing in standard motorsports for decades. It's a championship points table, so why is a non-points race there?--2A00:23C4:8D48:1:C8BA:2136:5CE:EEB7 (talk) 15:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Penske Penalties after St. Pete

I see that a few changes are being made by @MSport1005, @RegalZ8790, and @Grahaml35, which is great. According to the results on indycar.com / imscdn.com the laps lead by Newgarden are simply excluded, so he gets no points for any part of his result. Lundgaard gets 2 points for leading the most laps (7) and Herta gets 1 point for leading 1 lap.

Also, is there a way that Will Power's 10 point penalty can be applied to his points total? Or are those totals set manually and therefore it can be arbitrarily set 10 points lower? Vwlou89 (talk) 14:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

As an aside, here's a direct link to the race results: [2]http://www.imscdn.com/INDYCAR/Documents/6298/2024-04-24/indycar-officialraceresults.pdf

And here is one to the standings as they should be as of 4/24/24: [3]https://www.indycar.com/Standings Vwlou89 (talk) 14:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I also think that the correct standings should show both Newgarden and McLaughlin as DSQ and not 26 & 27, and that Newgarden should have neither an "L" nor an "*" on his STP result as he is absent from the "leader summary" on the official results. Also, fastest lap should be Kyffin Simpson. Vwlou89 (talk) 15:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't see in the official results where Lundgaard has two points for most laps led. I only see that he has the 1 point for leading a lap, as does Herta. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  16:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I restored Lundgaard as the laps led leader per the official results, retaining the note explaining no bonus point was awarded to him. He led more laps, legitimately, than any other driver and I see no reason the results table should not recognize his accomplishment. RegalZ8790 (talk) 02:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with that change, as well as the use of the word "legitimate", which isn't used anywhere else and in my opinion could be seen as editorializing, which we shouldn't do in wiki-voice. The bonus point for most laps lead was scrubbed from the record, as reflected by Lundgaard not receiving a second bonus point, and thus the results table here should reflect that.

In short, we shouldn't "recognize his accomplishment" because the reliable sources don't. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  03:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

You are very correct about the editorializing word, which I scrubbed. However, the official results page "Leader Summary" clearly displays Lundgaard as the driver with the most laps led, listing him in a table above Colton Herta. Our Wikipedia results table is concerned only with "Most laps led." There is no direct connection to points earned; if there was, we would not list the driver with the fastest lap. RegalZ8790 (talk) 03:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The driver with the most laps led was Newgarden, who was disqualified. Lundgaard (unlike Simpson's FL) isn't recognised as having led the most laps. That's only your interpretation of a list. But the race wasn't 8 laps long. If Lundgaard was recognised, he'd have 2 extra points – and he doesn't. The box should therefore be empty.

Additionally, you should wait for WP:CONSENSUS before reverting back to what you think is right, as you did here. MSport1005 (talk) 14:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC)