Talk:Detroit Titans football

Nickname - Tigers, Titans

detroittitans.com gives us

• This season is the 112th year of collegiate basketball at the University of Detroit Mercy - the oldest Division I program in the state - as the Tigers – yes, Tigers as they were called back then - beat Collegiate, 18-7, in the first official Detroit basketball game in 1905.
• Until 1919, the U-D teams were known as the Tigers. In the fall of 1919, Detroit Free Press' sportswriter Stan Brink, who was covering football for the paper, thought that a good nickname for the team would be the Titans.

Occasionally athletics predates adoption of a nickname. In this case, I could not date the exact origin of "Tigers." Current article titles use no nickname 1896-1911, and use Titans from 1912 onward. This is incorrect per above. I'm boldly moving all pre-1919 team articles within Category:Detroit Titans football seasons to " Tigers" per above, on the reasonable presumption that "Tigers" is valid from 1896-1918. Both Google.com and newspapers.com searches are a challenge due to "detroit tigers" (MLB Detroit Tigers, Detroit (1920s NFL teams), etc) mismatches even when filtering by years and sports. Please correct if you find better sourcing. UW Dawgs (talk) 18:50, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

A scoped google search shows the above article is not a one-off, as the 1919 + Tigers content is stated throughout. Agree re primary source issues and stipulated this alone doesn't necessarily mean they are accurately representing the history. UW Dawgs (talk) 23:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

And similarly updated Detroit Mercy Titans at that time via this edit[1]. Note, there were no equlivalent Detroit Mercy Titans men's basketball articles with the Tigers/Titans issues. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:30, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Moved from UW Dawgs' Talk page (see diff here):

I noticed that you moved 20 or so of the University of Detroit season articles (1896-1918) to reflect the nickname "Tigers". I've never seen that nickname used by U-D sports teams, and my searches on Newspapers.com failed to turn up any sources supporting the move. Do you have a source or sources to support the use of the "Tigers" nickname? Cbl62 (talk) 23:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Yep, I almost pinged you in my Talk:Detroit Titans football comment, but the 3 or so issues are all called out there (original and current nickname, year of that change, common name, etc). UW Dawgs (talk) 23:32, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Unrelated, interest in this edit[1] was the instigation, but it turns out Detroit City College is now Wayne State University, rather than University of Detroit (formerly Detroit College). UW Dawgs (talk) 23:47, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Despite the fact that Detroit Free Press is available on-line for the relevant time period, my searches have not turned up any contemporaneous sources referring to the University of Detroit's football teams from 1896 to 1918 as the "Tigers". Unless such sourcing turns up, I'm inclined to revert the renaming of the pre-1919 season articles. Cbl62 (talk) 15:00, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

All of my rationale and search results are posted on that article Talk. Does it show any use of Titans within that period, but suggest you move the discussion there. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:06, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

No. Your search results there are limited to detroittitans.com press releases from the 2010s. Feel free to dupe the discussion there if you wish. Cbl62 (talk) 22:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

FWIW - I have found some contemporaneous game programs from 1919 and 1920 referring to the football team as the Tigers. This runs beyond the story referenced above suggesting that the team became the Titans in 1919. Accordingly, the task remains to determine (a) when the Tigers nickname came into common usage, and (b) when the Titans nickname supplanted Tigers in common usage. Cbl62 (talk) 03:08, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

The University of Detroit 1877-1977: A Centennial Historypage=71 gives us "Detroit College Football Team ('Tigers') 1897. The first official team at the College." Gus Dorais: Gridiron Innovator, All-American and Hall of Fame Coachpage=132 gives us "In 1924 the Tigers changed their nickname to the more unique 'Titans.'" and repeats the Stanley Brink origin story. The Michigan Chronicle, very likely repeating recent content sourced from the University of Detroit, gives us[2]"The 2016-17 season marks the 111th year of collegiate basketball at the University of Detroit Mercy as the Tigers – yes, Tigers – beat Collegiate, 18-7, in the first official Detroit basketball game. Until 1919, the then University of Detroit athletic teams were known as the Tigers. In the fall of 1919, the Detroit Free Press' sportswriter Stan Brink, who was covering football for the paper, thought that a good nickname for the team would be the Titans." A librarian[3] at the University of Detroit archives states "The team name did not get changed to 'Titans' until 1924."[4] and "The first name for the sports teams at the University of Detroit was 'Tigers'."[5] which also links to an apparent 1919 game program with a cheer or fight song which incorporates the "Tiger."[6] In total, so far we have:

• 1896 - Some ambiguity if the "first" season was school-sanctioned, re "...1897. The first official team at the College"
• 1896–1919 - Use of Tigers (note, early eras sometimes make use of an informal nickname, which is later officially adopted by the school)
• 1919–1924 - Conflicting accounts of when name was changed from Tigers to Titans, with a 1924 transition being more compelling
• 1924–present - Use of Titans. UW Dawgs (talk) 18:36, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

• @UW Dawgs: You have found some good stuff. I plan to do some more digging, too. Let's try to drill down further and see if we can reach consensus on the answers to the two questions I posed above. There would have been some major confusion in 1921 when the city's NFL team was also the Tigers. Compare 1921 Detroit Tigers (NFL) season, 1921 Detroit Tigers season, 1921 Detroit Titans football team (looks like this one may have to be renamed "Tigers"), and 1921 Detroit Junior College football team (no known nickname). Cbl62 (talk) 18:59, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Detroit / Detroit Mercy

@SportsGuy789 and Cbl62:

SportsGuy789, you've recently moved all manner of football content (articles, cats, navboxes, etc) from "Detroit Titans football foo" to "Detroit Mercy Titans football foo." This appears to be erroneous. Specifically:

• The football program existed as "Detroit Titan Football 1896-1964."[7]
• University of Detroit Mercy#History (not well-sourced) gives us two separate institutions, of "University of Detroit (1911–1990)" and "Mercy College of Detroit (1941–1990)," which later merge in 1990
• But the timeline is supported on the school's site
  • "Mercy College of Detroit...opened its doors in 1941 to prepare young women for careers in nursing and teaching so that they might contribute intelligently and effectively to the welfare of society. Over the years, it expanded into a comprehensive coeducational liberal arts college."[8]
  • "In 1990, the University of Detroit and Mercy College of Detroit combined their resources and operations in a consolidated institution with the same ongoing commitments."(same source/page)
• So when the football team ceased in 1964/65, there were two separate schools were "University of Detroit (1911–1990)" and "Mercy College of Detroit (1941–1990)"
• Later, the 1990 merger of the two schools created "University of Detroit Mercy"

The football program predates the women's (later coed) "Mercy College of Detroit" founded in 1941, and ceases prior to the 1990 merger which creates "University of Detroit Mercy." As such/per COMMONNAME, we would not attribute the football team of this era to either version of the two schools named "Mercy." What do you think? UW Dawgs (talk) 20:57, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

The articles should be reverted to Detroit Titans. As UW notes, the football program was dropped long before "Detroit Mercy" came into existence by way of the merger. Cbl62 (talk) 21:29, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I was unaware of that history, sorry about that. I agree the football program should be the exception to the Detroit Mercy naming convention. SportsGuy789 (talk) 16:02, 10 April 2019 (UTC)