Talk:Henry Torrens

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Date of Birth[edit]

An earlier version of this article had his date of birth as 1823, which appears to have been taken up by a number of external references, including ISNI, Library of Congress, GND (Germany), and The Peerage website.

However, the WikiTree website gives his date of birth as 24 Feb 1833 [1], referencing an LDS microfilm for his baptism (2 Jun 1833).

The latter appears to be correct, as his father only went out to India in 1828, and his mother would have been only 15 in 1823.

The confusion has possibly been caused by the image of the gravestone. At first glance it does look like the year given is 1823, but looking more closely there is lichen across the bottom of the number, and it seems to me that one can't be completely clear which figure is shown.

Given all the above, I have therefore changed the year to 1833. Jheald (talk) 09:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Jheald, all very interesting. I agree that 1833 is far more likely than 1823. However, the gravestone in my 2007 photo clearly shows 1823, and it is an odd sort of mistake to make. With the "3" immediately next to the "2", I think your suggestion of the possibility of some doubt is fanciful. I will try to take a higher resolution image when next up that way. Looking at his father's article in the of National Biography, 1901 supplement, if his son was born in 1823, the father would have been 16 when the son was born, and still at Charterhouse, before going up to Oxford. As you state, his father did not go out to India until 1828, and there are records that Henry D'Oyley Torrens was born in India.

Doing a search at familysearch.org, there is mention of a Yorkshire Gazette obituary that mentions him being 56 when he died in 1889 (ie born in 1833). The same site shows that in the 1851 census, "Henry D Torrens Male 18 Meerut Bengal E I" was an Adjutant living as a lodger in Plymouth. Again, that ties in with an 1833 birthdate. Familysearch.org also provides the details of the England and Wales Death Registration Index, and that records the death of a "Henry Doyley Torrens" in the fourth quarter of 1889 in St. George Hanover Square district, age 56. It is unfortunate that we appear to be lacking a good secondary source for 1833. Nonetheless, there is overwhelming evidence (primary sources plus inferences from secondary ones) to prefer 1833 to 1823, which only has the gravestone to support it, and that is arguably a primary source. Edwardx (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This would then leave us with the mystery of the 1823 date on the gravestone - how and why did that happen? Edwardx (talk) 12:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

His widow, Georgina Frances Torrens died in London in 1918, and the beneficiaries were George de Butts and Fane Vernon. And I can find no evidence that there was any issue from the marriage. One imagines that it was his widow who chose the "1823" date on the gravestone, but I can think of no reason as to why this might have been. Edwardx (talk) 00:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On further reflection, perhaps "1823" on the gravestone being a simple mistake is the most likely explanation. Perhaps the individual stonemason or company who made the error offered to replace the slab or give a part refund, and his widow accepted the money. Or maybe she made an error when giving them the birth year. Edwardx (talk) 14:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]