Talk:Israel Folau/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

How do we change the URL for his name,

click on 'Move this page' to the right of your screen there (it's only available to people who've had a proper login for a while). Also, State of Origin has nothing to do with birthplace. It depends on where a player first played with a registered rugby league club.--Jeff79 01:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Season by season section

I suggest this be deleted. It doesn't seem necessary since it is already shown in his statsbox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.224.1.18 (talk) 01:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Rugby League Career & AFL Career sections

To be consistent should the AFL Career section be retitled as Australian Football Career? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.167.236 (talk) 06:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 September 2012

Request to update Israel Folau's "Personal and sponsorship" information. The current text is outdated & needs to be deleted, replaced with:

In 2012 Folau signed an apparel and footwear sponsorship deal with Under Armour, positioning him as the American brand's highest profile Australian ambassador. He joined Winter Olympics Gold Medalist Lydia Lassila, Hawthorn Hawks co-captain Jordan Lewis and South Sydney Rabbitohs captain Michael Crocker as an official UA Ambassador, wearing Under Armour boots & training apparel.

Israel Folau signed a multi-year sponsorship with Under Armour in 2012

File:Israel-folau-under-armour-hoody.jpg

Folau is American sportswear giant Under Armour's highest profile athlete in Australia.

File:Israel-folau-gws-giants-afl.jpg

Folau in action for the GWS Giants during the 2012 AFL Season

Shuffleking (talk) 23:46, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, not all of these files exist. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2017

I'm new to Wikipedia so I'm unsure how to go about this, but I'd like to edit Israel Folau's Wikipedia page because there's a significant amount of missing information on his rugby union career that I'd like to add to the page. Msharprugby276 (talk) 05:35, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

The information I wanted to add was that Folau played every minute of every single fixture for the Waratahs in 2017 and that he played every minute of every single Wallabies test prior to his sabbatical in 2017. He was the winner of the John Eales Medal that year, an award for the best Australian rugby player of the year, and the fact that prior o taking his sabbatical that year after the Wallabies vs Barbarians, he was the leading try scorer of the year with 12 and was the first Australian rugby player to score two individual tries each in three consecutive matches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Msharprugby276 (talk • contribs) 05:38, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Please provide a source for this change. ToThAc (talk) 13:40, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

April 2018 Balance?

At present the piece says "... Folau was widely criticized for his unpopular views ..." and yet this ignores the support he received. In addition to players such as Curtis Rona, Christian and conservative pieces have been written which note that not only has the Left gone beserk in response to a public tweet that attacked one of their sacred cows, but that many of their attacks have been incoherent e.g. promoting inclusivity yet excluding those of a religious orientation. Obviously this latter isn't relevant for this page but it seems to me that if it is claimed that Folau was widely criticised for expressing Christian views, then should not the level of support also be noted? ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 人族 (talk • contribs) 10:49, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Anti-gay

I have changed "homophobic" (used by the ABC) to the more neutral "anti-gay" (used by the Sydney Morning Herald). StAnselm (talk) 12:17, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't call that particularly neutral phrasing either though. Is there actually a neutral way to handle the topic? Folau posted a list based on the Bible which included drunks, liars, thieves, and adulterers yet this is being classed as 'anti-gay'. Is it also anti-drunk, anti-liar, anti-thief, anti-adulterer etc? If it is condemned solely for not being pro-homosexual then by that logic isn't the Bible 'anti-gay'? But wouldn't such an accusation itself then be anti-Christian? Sorry but there seems to be issues of logic and consistency arising. How about phrasing it as his comments were deemed homophobic by various parties? That way they can say what they like without Wikipedia being required to make a judgement call. 人族 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:58, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Folau and marriage

User:Torygreen84 added, Folau supports the NO vote for the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey. User:Whats_new? removed it, as WP:UNDUE. Folau's position on marriage is a worthy encyclopedic entry. 100s of Wiki examples are available re people's view on marriage. Recommend sentence be retained, possibly paraphrasing his position, "I love and respect all people for who they are and their opinions. but personally, I will not support gay marriage." B20097 (talk) 23:34, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

He is a footballer, not a politician or prominent activist on the subject. He submitted a one line view on the subject. His minimal, one line view on the Israel/Palestine conflict or Australia's involvement in Iraq isn't particularly relevant either. He is noted as an opposer of SSM in Endorsements in the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey article, but I don't see what value it adds including it here -- Whats new?^(talk) 02:34, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I think you don't see th value of it when it come to somebody who opposes it. look they are movie stars, sports stars, singers who have their stance on the marriage question. it its always for the pro change side. that's bias famous people who don't support change are not valued. I say put it back Torygreen84 (talk) 03:17, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I resent the accusation I've removed it because the person in question is opposed to a political issue. Some celebrities warrant inclusion on their views because they actively campaign or a vocal critics/supporters of the issue. Folau doesn't fit that category from what I can see. He sent one tweet on the issue. OTHER STUFF EXISTS isn't a good enough reason to include it. His view is noted on the Survey endorsements article, but I see it as undue weight to include it here. -- Whats new?^(talk) 04:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Torygreen84 I support you, (which means it is a two-to-one consensus) don't worry too much about this issue. Of note, Miranda Devine, this morning: "IT’S OK for Ian Thorpe to front the Yes campaign for same-sex marriage. It’s OK for the Wallabies, the NRL, the ARU, the AFL, Cricket Australia, Tennis Australia, Football Federation Australia to support a Yes vote. It’s OK for the nation’s sporting bodies to bring politics into an arena which previously has been a haven from the troubles of the world. It’s OK to disenfranchise a significant percentage of players and supporters in the process. But it’s not OK for Wallaby star Israel Folau respectfully to disagree. “I love and respect all people for who they are and their opinions, but personally, I will not support gay marriage” he tweeted last week to a chorus of criticism, calling him, among other insults, a “bad human being”. B20097 (talk) 21:39, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

WP:CONSENSUS is not a vote. I don't understand what an opinion piece has to do with this issue. -- Whats new?^(talk) 23:37, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

• Concur with Whats new? that the information is due at the Endorsements ... article, but not here. This is one tweet. I also fail to see that the opinion piece above relates, but it's starting to smell like WP:RGW. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 23:44, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Remove. I don't know why a footy player's view on same sex marriage is relevant to their professional profile. Falou did not represent or publicly advocate for same sex marriage. All he did was to reply to a journalist enquiry whether he believed same sex marriage should be legalized 120.29.48.46 (talk) 12:54, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Homophobic what???

Right now, the article mentions

homophobic sledging

without any context, explanation, or link. Leaving aside the disagreement above whether it's appropriate for us to be copying one side's harsher phrasing (homophobic v anti-gay), the second word simply doesn't make any sense. Obviously, it's all well and good to use Australian English for an Australian figure but (a) this turn of phrase means bupkis outside of the Commonwealth. To US readers curious about the current culture-war fracas down under, it sounds like someone is being physically assaulted. WP:ENGVAR supports using phrasing that can be understood by all dialects when possible. There should be plenty of other choices here: insults? slurs? name-calling? &c.

(b) If the local editors insist that 'sledging' is the only appropriate phrasing in Australian English, it still needs some glossing and/or linking for the rest of us.

(c) Both Wikipedia and Wiktionary currently go out of their way to specify that 'sledging' is cricket slang, which has nothing to do with a rugby player. Are they both wrong and it's in more general use? Is that only an Australian thing or something more general throughout Commonwealth English? Both pages should be edited (when someone has time) to reflect the term's actual scope, since there are hundreds of millions of English speakers who have no idea what this term means or when it's used. — LlywelynII 20:40, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Imagine an American whining about others being insular. Good one. It's just a synonym for trash-talk, so you can link to that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.71.154 (talk) 22:05, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Is Israel Non-Trinitarian?

This is important because for many Christians, the acceptance of the doctrine of the trinity is a key test as to whether someone IS a Christian or not.

The linked article in the claim that Israel is non-Trinitarian in his faith has as it's source only one tweet from Israel. Having read this tweet, I'm not convinced that it unambiguously shows that he is non-trinitarian.

The tweet(s) can be found here.

The actual theology may be a bit obscure to people not familiar with Christianity, but I believe that it could be legitimate to read Israel's claim that "But it's not 3 or the trinity but just him alone," to be referring to the original subject of baptism, rather than making a claim about the trinity overall.

This is a discussion within Christianity, and it centres around the words used during a baptism: The majority of Christians invoke the threefold names of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. A minority of Christians have only spoken the name of Jesus Christ. It may be that when Israel says "it's not 3 or the trinity" he's actually just referring to the words used at the moment of baptism.

This would put his theology outside of the generally accepted norms of Christianity, but it's quite different from saying that He's non-trinitarian, which is a much bigger deal.

I suggest that the wording at this point in the article be changed to something like 'Israel has expressed belief in baptism only in the name of Jesus Christ, rather than in the name of the trinity" with a link to the original tweet. OR an edit to say "Israel has maid claims which some have interpreted as him not holding to a trinitarian faith." with a link to the news article.

As the article is semi-protected, I don't have the ability to make this edit. If someone with editing permissions sees merit in this argument I'd be grateful if you'd consider making this change.

Dpicks (talk) 14:34, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

There were other tweets,[1] and there are lots of secondary sources,[2][3] which back this up. His church is very explicitly non-trinitarian. StAnselm (talk) 19:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you - that's helpful. Dpicks (talk) 10:43, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. He is non Trinitarian then he is not a Christian and the ACL should stop funding him.103.116.208.33 (talk) 12:17, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Church

He left Assemblies of God (Hillsong) in 2013 with his father, Eni who started his own church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.178.8.121 (talk) 08:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2019

"Folau's statements about what he understands the Bible to say about same-sex marriage and homosexuality brought him into conflict with the administrators of Rugby Australia, " To Folau posted a summarised quote of what is actually written in the bible (1 Corinthians 6:9 and 10) about Drunks Homosexuals Adulterers Liars Fornicators Thieves Atheists and Idolaters. The bible states that list of people will not inherit the kingdom of God and if you do not inherit the kingdom of God then there is only 1 other place you will go and that is Gehenna or hell. END

Even though Rugby Australia sacked Folau due to pressure from their main sponsor whose CEO is openly Gay and admitted that sponsorship would be withdrawn if Folau was not sacked, the passages stating that this list of people will not inherit the kingdom of God is still in the bible. Folaus' post is not what he understands the bible to say, it is what the bible says and his post brought him into conflist not with adminstrators but the CEO of Qantas. I think this is important because how this passage above is written makes it appear as though Israel Folau invented the passage and has been labeled homophobic because of it. This is wrong. Rippled Nipple (talk) 03:46, 20 October 2019 (UTC) Change

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 18:24, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm wondering why this is not good enough to make the change. The Bible *does* say that, in almost exactly the words Folau quoted (allowing for slight variations in wording depending on the translation used). What sort of reliable source is needed for this? Isn't the Bible itself the most reliable source for what the Bible says?

I disagree with Folau's opinion and find those doctrines distasteful, but that *is* what the Bible says, not merely "what Folau understands it to say".

It seems to me the change should be made if Wikipedia is to be truthful and unbiased. Or does political correctness just make it too hot to put into the article? M.J.E. (talk) 07:23, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Read the part here about the issue, that's how he justifies this drivel himself https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/israel-folau-im-a-sinner-too/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.71.154 (talk) 21:31, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Many Errors in opening Paragraph.

Folau doesn't and never has played for the NTT Docomo Red Hurricanes, furthermore the NTT Docomo Red Hurricanes don't play in "Super Rugby" as mentioned in the opening.

Rugby Australia "nanny state" scandal

I find it ridiculous that there is nothing on Rugby Australia about the Israel Falou scandal. There should be something on here about the Israel Falou, and "nanny state" issue around Rugby Australia controlling their employees religious freedoms, including what they post on their personal social media accounts outside of work. This has been front and center of most recent discussion of anything to do with Rugby Australia, and has been heavily covered in media, as well as in the Australian Parliament. Seems ridiculous nothing is on there about this scandal! Most people haven't even heard of Rugby Australia apart from Israel Falou, and they are allegedly on the brink of "bankruptcy" if they lose the Israel Falou case 120.29.48.46 (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

and the Folau * social media postings and the * Qantas-sponsorship references and * Mark nations (sic) comments, on the RA page, are all deleted with, "insignificant, please seek consensus to include". I suggest a number of RSs and a stack of people do not see this as insignificant. Possibly RA's viability is at stake. It involves millions of RA dollars. Refer to the RA Talk Page. Agreeing with 120.29.48.46 > "I find it ridiculous that there is nothing on Rugby Australia about the Israel Falou scandal". B20097 (talk) 19:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

This is not the Rugby Australia article, so comments about that organisation have no relevance here. As for Mark Latham, his personal opinions about Qantas and Rugby Australia are not notable and do not belong in this article. WWGB (talk) 02:41, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

WWGB (talk) At last - a TP response. That is a good start. You have been deleting Wiki RA content and require editors to justify their positions on the RA talk page. Now, how about do what you require of others. B20097 (talk) 04:37, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

See WP:ONUS, I do not have to "justify" anything. WWGB (talk) 05:13, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Wait for the court case to start then advocate the addition of it in a controversy section or somesuch. Unlawful sacking of a player on religious\freedom of speech grounds is more an RA issue than a player issue. You could then also argue sponsorship, political activism, a culture of intolerance etc. 人族 (talk) 04:39, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Dear 120.29.48.46, the employers are NOT controlling their employees religious freedom so please don't talk crap

. Mr Folau knows he has done wrong.103.116.208.33 (talk) 12:14, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I disagree. The employers are controling their employee promoted by their sponsor CEO who is openly gay and demanded he be made an example of. As this is an information site I believe all the information pertaining to this case where the religious freedoms of Israel Folau have been stifled by his employer and his place of employment were forced to sack him from his contract because he posted a quote from the bible on his personal account in his own time, should be made availble to the public so they may make their own minds up rather than being fed biased information by people who clearly have an axe to grind over the man. Saying he knew he did wrong is a case in point, nowhere has Mr Folau ever acknowledged he did anything wrong, in fact quite the opposite as he doubled down in other videos. All the information should be made avaiable if you call yourself an information site.

Pretty sure he's still a religious nutbag and still spouting bronze age nonsense, and I'm pretty sure he had been before this as well, so nothing has been curtailed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.71.154 (talk) 06:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2020

Folau signed a one year contact to play the 2020 season for Super League club Catalans Dragons. Nofibs (talk) 13:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make; please be specific about exactly what and where you want to add. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:38, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

It was pretty clear that the user wanted the article updated. They even provided the ref. I don't know why we have to make this so hard. Done anyway. AIRcorn (talk) 05:06, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit requests are supposed to be in the form that they can be basically copied directly to the article, with some explanation of where they should be copied. Remember, the point of edit requests is to enable editors who cannot edit an article due to protection to ask for edits to be made for them, by people who may have zero understanding of the subject matter. If editors just want to ask for an article to be updated but can't be bothered making a proper edit request, they're welcome to just post on the talk page normally. Nil Einne (talk) 18:40, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

References