Talk:List of Michelin 3-star restaurants/Archive 1

Without proper, sourced updates, this page should be deleted

This page is littered with errors. After landing here through a google search for Michelin-starred restaurants in Portland, OR (we have none), I found that Portland was originally added by a vandal who updated with a Hot Dog stand. After seeing that error, I continued researching. Almost nothing about this page is consistent. Some cities are included even though they have no Michelin-starred restaurants, others are missing even though they have them. Dozens of restaurants are not included, and those that are included are not updated. Almost nothing is sourced in any way, and several of the sources are out-of-date news stories which cannot remain reliable after a single year.

The only solution is to use the actual Michelin Guide to source and update this article each and every year. That requires a lot of work from editors, but without that kind of care, this is simply not an encyclopedic article. I am not disputing the possible importance of the subject, but most of the page has been out-dated for nearly two years without any serious attempt to fix it. Rather than submitting a deletion proposal, though, I wanted to see how many people are watching this page and have an opinion on the matter. ∅BRIT 16:15, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to investigate and fix things. This looks like a maintainable list. Indeed, someone has to do it, but that goes for all Wikipedia articles. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I tend to agree. The ONLY source should be Michelin itself, either the current red guides or the Michelin website. The danger of using press articles is that they are not always accurate. (I recently visited a restaruant - first class, I must say - that a local newspaper had described as having a Michelin starred chef-proprietor. Turns out that he had previously worked in a Michelin starred restaurant in a junior capacity before opening his own place, which needless to say, had no such accreditation. Sloppy journalism.) Emeraude (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I found a complete list of Michelin Star restaurants and it confirmed my suspicions. This page is not only terrible, it is almost useless in comparison to the actual list. However, I will begin the editing process. My original suggestion stands, and I still feel it's a candidate for deletion unless the information can be sourced directly from Michelin. ∅BRIT 22:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

By all means continue sourcing and improving it. Again, thank you for doing this. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:26, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, as a side note, if you want a wider community discussion on deletion, the process is at WP:AfD. If you would like to nominate it, and need a hand with the technical aspects, feel free to drop me a note. Though I personally disagree with deletion (and would voice that opinion on a deletion discussion), I don't mind helping you out with the process. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

AfD is rather pointless in this case. I think the page should stay - the problem is with sourcing and it would be argued in AfD that the solution to a poorly referenced article is to find references. Much better to carry out improvements, and if possible, to source everything from Michelin only, though this would need updating when each annual red guide is published. Emeraude (talk) 13:56, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

The note for where the deletion process was at was meant @Not Brit:, who voiced his opinion for deletion again. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I understood that. I was just agreeing with you that I would also disagree at AfD and was suggesting a possible way forward. (If anyone has current Michelin Red Guides, they do list starred restaurants together and that would be the source. Unfortunately, my latest Red Guide for France is for 2012!) Emeraude (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I second the deletion, or at least a major overhaul; the information on this page is extremely inconsistent. Additionally, no less than seven of dishes in the composite image are from The Fat Duck- not a lot of variety in that. --MosheA (talk) 00:09, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

This article should indeed be deleted proto. Michelin would have every right to sue. The content is radically inaccurate. The Michelin ratings change constantly, covering restaurants across the world, so even if it could be overhauled and made accurate for now, it's not the kind of page that stands a chance of remaining permanently updated. For legal reasons, if nothing else, delete. Span (talk) 05:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I prefer the notion of improving the article, rather than deletion in entirety, which would be rather blunt. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:17, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Article updating

I've added a "Year of award" column to entries in the List of 3 star Michelin restaurants section, and have began adding citations to verify content. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:41, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I have updated the Section called "List of Michelin 3-star restaurants by country" up to the Michelin Guide 2015 and deleted the section on Ireland since it has no 3-star Michelin restaurant (for info on Ireland users can use the page referred below https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michelin_starred_restaurants_in_Ireland ) Alias8 (talk) 10:33, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

This article is for all Michelin-starred restaurants

I have reverted removals of entries that were removed under the rationale that they did not have three Michelin stars, because this article lists all Michelin-starred restaurants.

Also, after source searches, I have re-removed the Malaysia section from the By country section (diff), because I cannot find sources that qualify these numbers. Another editor removed this before, but I restored it. After not finding any sources whatsoever, I removed it again. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:50, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Respectfully, I disagree

Firstly, the article clearly states it is a "List of Michelin 3-star restaurants by country". Secondly, it would be virtually impossible to keep a list of ALL Michelin-starred restaurants up-to-date. Aside from the fact that there are hundreds of changes each year, you would need to be sure that the restaurants don't close down. Maintaining any sort of order (and checking the facts) would be immensely time-consuming. It does however make sense to keep a list of the 3-starred restaurants as these are few and far between and people generally notice, when such a prestigious restaurant closes its doors (or is newly crowned). I have edited the "Germany" section according to the list's title and do not see any copyright issue as the information is freely available on the Michelin website (I have included a citation link at the top of the list - I am not happy with its positioning, so please feel free to put it in a more appropriate place) Monstabyte (talk) 22:15, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

three stars only: consensus

hey everyone, this list is going to be too large and unmanageable unless we restrict it to three star restaurants. let's establish consensus here on the talk page. (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 18:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Updates

Reminder: German section needs updates, see this. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:23, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

2 Stars?

This article makes no sense, why does the 2-star section only cover France and Monaco? So weird. What about 2-star restaurants in the US? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.212.131.54 (talk) 02:08, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

More Updates

For the most part, of the past two months, I've been slowly trying to fix this page. I think based on what a lot of people said here, keeping two michelin star restaurants makes no sense. Only France and Nordic were on here, and it already took up like 1/4 of the page. I think it would be better for everyone efforts to fix the three star restaurants and just keep track of those. VikingDevil53(talk) 11/17/2016 —Preceding undated comment added 02:25, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Should this article only indicate the latest status without mentioning any past

It's time the discussion be moved from User_talk:Supermann#List_of_Michelin_3-star_restaurants to here so that more editors can contribute. I hope we don't have a silent majority here. Again, by fully caveating any historical restaurants' 3 star status should result in them being eligible to be included in this article. It's this simple. Supermann (talk) 15:58, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

As I suspected, those who claim this list only has current 3 stars overlooked Koryu (弧柳) which lost its 3 stars in the 2020 list. They never fully maintain the list here. They engaged in edit warring for the purpose of edit warring. Given I have already created List of Michelin starred restaurants in Japan, then Koryu must be gone by their "standard."Supermann (talk) 07:06, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

What a broad assumption here, you have. I think this is rather a case of not having the knowledge of the full changes of the list of the restaurants, and unbalanced coverage in the media. Considering these, I feel that the edit to the full list should be done in one stroke or the list be placed under construction mode while we update the list as a whole. robertsky (talk) 09:03, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@The Banner. Thx. Supermann (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Nearly all Red Guides have different issue dates. So picking a one-date-fits-all is asking for trouble. The Banner talk 20:14, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Just as an example: Ireland in October, Belgium/Luxembourg in November, The Netherlands in January. The Banner talk 22:23, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Monitoring the month should be enough for annual editions. There are one-off guides that don't get updated on annual basis - for example, Hokkaido one. I didn't come up with the term "one-off". Michelin's own article used that term. We just have to be vigilant. So are you up for deleting Koryu? If not, why don't we add back the two in dispute?Supermann (talk) 03:13, 10 December 2019 (UTC)