Talk:Maungakiekie / One Tree Hill

Work needed

I removed this part of the page because as most NZers should know, it is incorrect:

In the meantime six trees have been planted in 2002 to possibly give the new nickname "Six Tree Hill". It is expected that the five weakest trees will be removed allowing one to reach full maturity.

There are still no tree's and none will be planted pending resolvement of the treaty claim. There are 9 trees waiting to be re-planted. This info needs to be updated and added. Info on the illegal plantings can perhaps also be added. I don't have time to do it myself but here are some links which should prove useful [1] [2] [3] [4] (outdated since it suggests a planting could happen winter 2005). Also I noticed during my search a Herald article from 2000 claiming the sacred totora tree was a myth. Can't access it as it's premium content. Since this is the herald we're talking about, I wouldn't give it much stock but it might be worth having? Nil Einne 13:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The Herald references Ernst_Dieffenbach's Travels in New Zealand (1843) "it is overgrown inside with brushwood and trees, and on the top stands an old pohutukawa-tree, which serves as a good landmark for ships entering Waitemata Harbour" , Ferdinand_von_Hochstetter (1859) "a single lofty tree (Metrosideros tomentosa - a subspecies of pohutukawa), now almost rotted down to the ground, on the highest peak, gives the hill its European name." and the Daily Southern Cross Newspaper 14/8/1875 "in the earliest days of Auckland a majestic pohutukawa crowned the very summit - the very crater-top - until the fell hand of some Goth on Onehunga's shore levelled the grand land-mark for firewood's sake!"

The pohutukawa is much more suited to such a harsh environment, so this (original tree was pohutukawa, not totara) makes sense. When the old pine was there you could see pohutukawa seedlings germinating around it.

Dougalc 04:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Photo

We have a photo after the tree was removed, anyone got a photo of when the tree was still there? Brian | (Talk) 02:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Have added an old shot I took - it is not the best, so feel free to add a better one, Winstonwolfe 02:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Chainsaw

I removed the suggestion TradeMe removed the auction due to legal concerns. All the reports I have seen and I myself researched this a while back suggest it is not illegal under current NZ law. The most damning reference is this one which specifically states the police said it was not illegal [5]. From memory, and I'm sure you'd find this in one of the reports, the law only prohibits people profitting if the criminal act resulted in a minimum of 2 years in prison or something of that sort. The chainsaw therefore was not covered, nor was the bikini, nor was the baton (all 3 of these involved criminal acts). (Indeed since it was not the person who commited the act profiting, and since the money was going to charity anyway it may not have been covered by the act at all, although this is pure original research/speculation). 203.109.240.93 10:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

TV

• • The naming of the teen television drama, One Tree Hill, was inspired in turn by the U2 song, and in the series Andy Hargrove hails from the New-Zealand town; his mother moved the family to Tree Hill, North Carolina because of the common name.

The above section was added, but doesn't quite make sense. From which New Zealand Town?MadMaxDog 06:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Size comparison.One tree Hill Pa and Maiden castle, Dorset

Maiden Hill castle(hill fort)is almost three times as big as One tree Hill Pa.Its longest axis is 984m compared to OTH's 460m.The flat(slightly domed) land on top of MHC is equal to the size of 24 rugby fields whereas there is no substancial area of flat land inside the old line of pallisades at OTH. But Maiden Hill is lower at 132m compared to 182M.Claudia Jan 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.153.162 (talk) 08:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Gallery

The following gallery was removed from the article. I'm putting it here for reference. --Avenue (talk) 00:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

• 
  Crater at the One Tree Hill Summit
• 
  One Tree Hill viewed from Mt Eden
• 
  View of Auckland from flanks of One Tree Hill
• 
  Rangitoto from near One Tree Hill summit
• 
  Cornwall Park from the base of One Tree Hill
• 
  Pasturage in Cornwall park

Requested move 11 October 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) —innotata 23:19, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

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One Tree Hill, New Zealand → Maungakiekie / One Tree Hill – New name for cone. Haminoon (talk) 04:40, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

References

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose MOS:SLASH we should avoid slashes whenever possible. WP:SUBPAGE this makes the appearance of a subpage, and messes up the associated talk pages, which will assume it is a subpage. Further, per internet wide usage, this is assumed to be a subpage in URL formulations. We can replace it with a DASH, like how other jurisdictions use an mdash. WP:OFFICIALNAMES we don't just use official names because they are official -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:23, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment Maungakiekie currently redirects here. So why don't you just swap that around? -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:31, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
    • Comment As the two names are important to different peoples; I think having just one name in the title would break WP:NPOV. Haminoon (talk) 21:46, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment A slash is allowed "where a slash occurs in a phrase widely used outside Wikipedia, and a different construction would be inaccurate, unfamiliar, or ambiguous"; and we have a precedence with Aoraki / Mount Cook. Usually in NZ the general usage rapidly follows the official name (as we saw with Aoraki / Mount Cook). Haminoon (talk) 21:46, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is another freshly gazetted name change that hasn't even been registered on BGN yet, let alone entered common use. Let's wait and see. Wiki's article on Mount Cook was moved to Aoraki / Mount Cook in 2011. But BGN still calls it "Mount Cook." "Mount Cook" also remains the overwhelming common usage, with only four of 23 news articles in the last two years using the slash format. Claimsworth (talk) 08:39, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment. I noticed that all the articles using Mount Cook incorrectly are non-New Zealand publications, but if you look in a New Zealand index such as Index New Zealand for the last few years you'll find that Mount Cook is just a small hill in Wellington. Oddly BGN lists "Aorangi" as a variant name, which is a spelling no-one in NZ has used for over 60 years. Sometimes the US military makes mistakes. Haminoon (talk) 09:45, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
    • BGN is not military. It's part of the U.S. Geological Survey in the Department of the Interior.[6] As for as Mount Cook goes, The New Zealand Herald seems to have some trouble deciding which form to use.[7][8] Claimsworth (talk)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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Those palisades

The palisades mentioned in the article, are they wooden poles for defence or - as has been suggested by an American editor — are they are some kind of natural rock formation. Either way it should be clarified what is meant. In the interim I have added wooden. Eddaido (talk) 22:06, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 9 January 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved (non-admin closure) ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 07:11, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

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One Tree Hill (New Zealand) → Maungakiekie / One Tree Hill – This reflects the official name for the volcano as gazetted in the New Zealand Place Names register, and follows the precedent of using a slash for the official names of New Zealand features, such as Aoraki / Mount Cook and Whakaari / White Island. As specified in the NZGB Gazetteer linked before, One Tree Hill on its own is not an official name for the mountain. The dual name is used in official communication by Auckland Council as well as in various non-official communications. Further to this, the name is registered as the approved name on BGN as of 2017. Turnagra (talk) 18:21, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support, the dual name is now well-accepted, and less clumsy than the current disambiguated name. It's time to re-evaluate the decision not to move the article five years ago.-gadfium 22:32, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

References

• Support Even from afar, I get the impression that the dual name is now dominant. Schwede66 13:35, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support. Even as a youth growing up nearby, I was aware of both names. Should arrange that One Tree Hill etc. is a redirect to the renamed article. Murray Langton (talk) 18:47, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hill / Promontory

@Murray Langton: Your use of the word "often" indicates your own doubt. I quote from the OED, the forts paragraph because that makes it clearest with "inland".

":C2.promontory fort n. Archaeology a type of Iron Age fort or fortified enclosure situated on a (coastal or inland) promontory.

Typically used to refer to coastal forts located in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and other areas settled by Celtic peoples.

1864 Royal Cornwall Gaz. 8 July 8/3 The promontory forts must be referred to the Saxon or Danes.

1914 Times 29 May 15/3 Hengistbury Head had been converted into a promontory fort in prehistoric times by the construction of large earthworks.

2004 D. W. Harding Iron Age in Northern Brit. ii. v. 144 The layout of promontory forts..is self-evidently determined by the topography in which they are located, taking advantage of a steep, coastal situation in which sheer cliffs minimise the need for artificial defences."

Eddaido (talk) 21:50, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Calling it a Hill makes far more sense - I don't know how this is even a question. The quoted section even seems to prove that promontory doesn't apply. Turnagra (talk) 22:09, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Ha ha ha, ha ha ha. Eddaido (talk) 03:07, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Eddaido, A response like that (ha ha etc.) is not at all helpful in the discussion.

Almost all the examples from the OED apply to a coastal situation. Maungakiekie / One Tree Hill is situated over a mile from a coastline. Also, the English name 'One Tree Hill' strongly suggests that 'hill' is more appropriate. Also, I lived nearby for over 20 years and I never heard anyone local refer to it as a promontory.

Eddaido, could you respond in a helpful fashion to the points that I and Turnagra have made. Murray Langton (talk) 05:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

As a further point, see the Wikipedia article promontory which associates it closely with water. Murray Langton (talk) 06:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

@Murray Langton: My response was to that enthusiastic language editor Turnagra rather than the subject. I think it is much more than a hill but if people like hill then hill it shall be. See the water in Maungakiekie's photo, not that I think it matters but you do. Eddaido (talk) 23:17, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

@Eddaido: The (barely visible) water you refer to in the photo (looking roughly north-east) is actually about four miles away, which is not exactly close. The nearest water is about one and a half miles south. So I don't think that any arguments based on proximity to water have any validity. See promontory for a definition "raised mass of land that projects into a lowland or a body of water". Since One Tree Hill is an extinct volcano, it just sits as a bump in the middle of a flattish area, which doesn't fit with 'projects'. Murray Langton (talk) 05:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

@Murray Langton: Surely you can work out how strongly I disagree with you? Eddaido (talk) 07:36, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

@Eddaido: It is obvious that you disagree with 'hill', but the weight of evidence, which you have not refuted, favours 'hill' over 'promontory'. Would you consider 'extinct volcano' instead of 'hill'? Murray Langton (talk) 11:00, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Murray, nice photo but its getting a bit long in the tooth. The weight of evidence as you put it does not favour it. I am not interested in arguing about it. Come home and have a look. Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 11:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)