Talk:Military history of South Africa

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Assessment[edit]

This is a pretty good B-Class article. You can nominate it for A-Class if you want (if you have any trouble with setting up the nomination, please let us know); but I would say that it's somewhat unlikely to pass until it gets a lot more inline citations, as it's fairly sparsely cited for its length. Kirill Lokshin 16:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi Kirill: Thank you, will do, I am working on it. IZAK 04:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly due to the addition of text over time, this article certainly no longer meets B Class standards - purely because of uncited text. If we leave it as B, everyone assumes it to be fine and no effort is made to add citations. In all other aspects, it is certainly B, even higher. Reverted to start class. Farawayman (talk) 19:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed on that assessment. Changing WikiProject SA's to match. — Gk sa (talk) 16:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong and not NPV[edit]

The following section is biased and is not written from a neutral point of view. It also does not state *ANY* sources :

In 1994, before the advent of majority rule, the AWB gained international notoriety in its attempt to defend the dictatorial government of Lucas Mangope in the homeland of Bophuthatswana. The AWB, along with a contingent of about 90 Afrikanervolksfront militiamen entered the capital of Mmabatho on March 10 and March 11. During their entry to the homeland they were all observed indiscriminately shooting civilians and tossing grenades from their vehicles.

For online reference to the Bophuthatswana incident, see the book by Kemp : "AWB: Victory or violence" (http://www.arthurkemp.com/awb/index.htm)

South Africans defeat Italians?[edit]

There is a section about the South African army and air force helping to defeat the Italians in the Second Italo-Abbyssinian War. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's rubbish. Not only did no South African troops fight, but the Italians won the war and took over Ethiopia.

Just wanted to record why I'm deleting that bit. Makaar 22:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa entered the Second World War in Italian East Africa: Yes South African forces did defeat the Italians. http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol026dt.html http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol132ga.html http://www.amazon.com/War-Hundred-Days-South-Africans/dp/1874800103/sr=1-13/qid=1168914872/ref=sr_1_13/103-0853323-9117444?ie=UTF8&s=books

Fascinating how this piece of WW2 history is too hard to swallow for some.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.74.100 (talk • contribs)


Er... that's not true. The Second Italo-Abyssinian War was in 1935-1936. You have it confused with the North and East African campaigns during the Second World War. Refresher: WWII was 1939-1945. What you listed was not evidence of a defeat during the Second Italo-Abyssinian War, which is what the article seemed to suggest. Besides, the same fact is listed a couple of points later, so it doesn't really matter. Makaar 21:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Farm killings?[edit]

The South African farming community has suffered from attacks for many years.[22] While the majority of the victims have been white farmers, attacks have also been recorded against black farmers and farm workers, with claims of death tolls of up to 1,700 (July 2005) cited in the media.[23][24]

Um....There isn't good evidence that the farm murders are politically motivated, and as such, their inclusion in the military history of South Africa seems unwarranted. I'll snip this section in a day or two...give me feedback

ManicParroT 00:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are right. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 17:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No question about it - although I don't think the question should me "are the murders politically motivated" as much as "are the murders performed by a connected/organised group of people"? In order to justify including the information in this specific article ("Military History of South Africa"), more that just the personal motivation of each of the murderers should be taken into account. If turns out that they were part of a military group that carried out orchestrated attacks (or maybe aims to carry out random attacks) then the information shouldn't be in this specific article. Anrie 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second Anglo-Boer War or South African War[edit]

Should we not use the name South African War for the conflict between 1899 - 1902? This is the more common name in most of the world and as far as I know also the name officially endorsed by South Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.6.206.13 (talk) 17:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Afrikaner Resistance Movements?[edit]

a very questionable labelling for the AWB. one can assume that also most afrikaners don't consider them as a "resistance movement". the paragraph should deal also with similar groups like "boeremag" and be labelled "paramilitary white supremacist groups" or so.--Severino (talk) 12:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if calling them terrorists is much better. They haven't been implicated in any violent actions since 94, (the pipe bombs were the Boeremag) and in any case, I'm really not sure if terrorist would be an NPOV way of describing a group in this context. Even the Al Qaeda page doesn't call them terrorists outright, it just explains that they've been designated a terrorist group by xyz groups. I'm going to cut the section in a bit. ManicParroT (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Re-reading it, I think it deserves to be included, but renamed somehow. ManicParroT (talk) 12:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

how about "modern afrikaner militias"? --Severino (talk) 18:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i'm gonna change it now.--Severino (talk) 13:40, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

we should also mention in this section militias/terror groups other than the AWB,like the mentioned boeremag, the boere krisisaksie (which has raided a SADF arms depot), the blanke bevrydingsbewging or the orde boerevolk of skiet rudolph.--Severino (talk) 15:14, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bantu Invasions[edit]

A major gap in this article is discussion of the invasion of southern Africa by the Bantu and their subjugation of the indigenous Khoi and San peoples, which took place partly prior to and partly around the same time as European colonization.Bill (talk) 23:01, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that this mostly happened prior to written history in the region. The primary evidence for the Bantu expansion is linguistic relationships, and I suppose the absence of Khoi-San peoples today where cave paintings suggest they used to be in the past, but there is little evidence to determine whether this was a process of military conquest, peaceful subjugation, or even peaceful amalgamation of the peoples. The presence of distinctively Khoi-San clicks in both isiZulu and isiXhosa (absent in more northern Bantu languages) implies to me that the process probably leaned more towards the latter. But if someone can come up with reliable sources talking about actual historical evidence of battles that took place between Bantu peoples and Khoi-San peoples -Kieran (talk) 18:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Union Defence Force and South African Defence Force[edit]

This article is bizarrely silent about the establishment of the Union Defence Force in 1912 and its conversion to the South African Defence Force in 1957. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:FIXIT - 41.162.131.130 (talk) 12:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Sources and referencing[edit]

There are almost no sources or references for any of the sections. Consider adding them, or the page will be updated to remove all unreferenced content. Janneman27 (talk) 07:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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