Talk:Nicholas True, Baron True

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Peerage and Baronetage

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage.

Politics of the United Kingdom Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

London Low‑importance

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

On 22 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Nicholas True. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Portrait[edit]

How is the portrait "Official" neither GOV.UK nor members.parliament.uk uses it AlexBobCharles (talk) 10:38, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 November 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lightoil (talk) 06:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nicholas True, Baron True → Nicholas True – Unnecessary disambiguation. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support with a comment that a great deal of these life peers don't need these titles in the article's name so my question for @Neveselbert is, will you nominate more pages if this passes? Something like Dambisa Moyo is a good candidate. Killuminator (talk) 20:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#RfC: Should the guideline explicitly accept Elizabeth II, Carl XVI Gustaf, etc titles? recently closed in support of the use of shorter titles where no disambiguation is needed, but I'm not entirely sure if this result necessarily extends to life peers, so I'll probably ask there assuming this passes. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 21:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose - agree on principle, but this particular person is commonly known as "Lord True". See ngrams. Also from a quick Google (not the best metric, but still) I get 113k hits for "Lord True" and 59.8k for "Nicholas True" Tim O'Doherty (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point, but that sounds more like an argument of moving the article to Lord True and updating the guidelines accordingly. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. Means articles like Lord North and Lord Grenville would be moved too, though. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lord Byron could be a precedent. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nicholas, Lord True is another option, as it's the form actually used when peers are sworn in. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Those are hereditary titles so there's more ambiguity there. Killuminator (talk) 22:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCBRITPEER. Personal names are only used alone for Peers who are almost exclusively known by their personal names, and ngrams don't support that [1]. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, an argument of moving the article to Lord True and updating the guidelines accordingly. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These ngrams show results for periods that precede this person's birth. Could it be possible that the words ''lord'' and ''true'' refer to certain religious chants? You can easily find pages in a Bible that have these two words close enough to each other. Killuminator (talk) 22:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Probably better known as a peer. WP:NCBRITPEER works perfectly well and doesn't need messing with for the sake of it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It clearly doesn't work perfectly well as evidenced by the David Cameron situation. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cameron should clearly be left at David Cameron, as very clearly explained at WP:NCBRITPEER. A couple of people being apparently unable to understand something that's very simple does not mean that something doesn't work. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's absurdly inconsistent. Nobody refers to Lord True as "Nicholas True, Baron True" or even "Baron True". ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.