Talk:Streatham Park

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Category[edit]

I note that Category:Streathamites has been created. Is this an accepted term or a WP:NEO? If the latter, I would suggest that this be changed to Category:Residents of Streatham Park. Categories are better if theri meaning does not need to be explained. The procedure to do this is to nominate it in WP:CFD (Categories for Discussion). Peterkingiron (talk) 11:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not everyone is a "resident" of a location. The historical term was a Streathamite. It's a standard declination of the word Streatham. This is no different than an "ian" or an "er". Ottava Rima (talk) 12:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The category is headed that it "includes" residents. If not every one was a resident, you need to provide more definition to show the limits of the category. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Um, maybe you don't understand. If I am from England, I am not "A resident of England", I am English (ish). If I am from London, I am not a "resident of London", I am a "Londoner" (er). Something from Streatham is a Streathamite (ite), because it ends with an "m". Standard declination rules. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am English-born and have never lived elsewhere. Recent practice for WP categories has been to prefer "people from London" to "Londoners". This is partly because many place names do not easily provide nouns descriptive of their people. However, what I was trying to do was to get you to provide a better definition (with a clear boundary) of who comes within the definition of a Steathamite, at the head of the category page. If they were not all "resident", what was theri connection with the place? Peterkingiron (talk) 15:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but thats clearly not true, and this is not the place to attempt to make such policy changes. What you still don't seem to understand was the use of the term resident before. I suggest you reread the above until you get what I was saying. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, standard naming convention, if there isn't an appropriate declination, is to say "People from ___", not Residents of, which shows your ignorance on the matter. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of the general Wikipedia standard convention, most of the individuals listed under the category were never residents of Streatham, merely visitors to Streatham Park. As the creator of the original Streatham Worthies article, I am agnostic on whether there is a need/demand for a new category of "Streatham Worthies".

However, I am clear that listing sometime visitors to Streatham Park in the category of Streathamites is likely to cause confusion, as most readers will assume such a category relates to all periods of the wider Streatham area's history and not just to the Thrale - Johnson literary and artistic circle at Streatham Park.-- unsigned by Lang Rabbie

Sorry, but a "Streatham Worthy" would be a for a painting, not a location. Streathamites are those from Streatham. The area doesn't pertain just to those in the catagory now, but it does pertain to everyone in the area pre 1880. And you can say that those listed weren't members all you want, I have multiple literary sources, including Hyde's The Thrales of Streatham Park that show that each person in there lived in the community on and off for quite a long time. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:31, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Known Residents: - Thrales (and children) (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 13) - William Lyttelton and family (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 10, 47, 184) - Oliver Goldsmith (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 40) - Samuel Johnson (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 63) - Robert Chambers (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 74) - Baretti a resident (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 76) - William Seward (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 102) - Burney a resident (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 173) - Joshua Reynolds (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 185) - Arthur Murphy (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 214, 264) - Lord Shelburne leased it, Major-General Dalrumple lived there for a year (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 251) - Count Lieven, the Russian Ambassador, lived there for three years (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 297) - Mr Anderdom and family (apothocary), resident for over 3 years (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 298) - Alexander Leak, steward (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 298) - Fellows (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 299) - Mr Elliott owner after Thrales (The Thrales of Streatham Park p. 300) - Garrick, Murphy, Reynolds, Seward, Boswell, Burney all constant visitors and residents ("Johnson, Boswell, and their circle" p.164)

There are many more historically famous people. This is not a full list, but many of the missing people are not notable enough to be placed in a category on the topic (because they aren't on Wikipedia). Ottava Rima (talk) 00:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What I was looking for was a robust definition. I suspected that there was something more substantial to this category than merely those who happened to visit the house. My initial (but wrong) guess was that this was a political grouping. I am altering the headnote to the category in a way that (I hope) reflects this discussion. When I started this discussion, the siginificance of the category (which was added to a couple of articles on which I had worked) was far from clear to me. I would therefore thank all contributors. Peterkingiron (talk) 09:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These aren't simply "visited the house" and that is clear in the above list with the references of the individuals living on the property. This is a residential grouping and a subset of people from Surrey. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you do not like my amendments to the category page Category:Streathamites, I suggest you altetr it to your liking. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You've broaden the category. Not that big of a deal. The "people from" categories are vague and broad on purpose (the purpose is to keep people from randomly placing people on the location page and cluttering it up or causing fights over if the person is notable enough to be there). Ottava Rima (talk) 21:21, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]